It's official, Tariffs on Canada and Mexico to start Saturday

Dougie93 · January 31

24 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

OTOH Europe would not need 100 nuclear submarines and doesn’t need to be a global power they are just defending the continent from eastern attack and possibly attack over the pole. Europe is not overly concerned about challenging China or North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba, and their interest in Middle Eastern adventurism is also limited. Even Iran only concerns them indirectly due to its alliance with Russia and the political fallout from any instability vis-vis Israel. Meanwhile Russia can’t even defeat Ukraine

fair point

100 nuclear submarines was over the top

again tho, Europe is not one big force, it's a bunch of small forces which are all the same

and they're not full spectrum, they all perform the same narrow spectrum of operations

and the Europeans are not actually that unified, they don't actually get along in terms of who would be in charge

Europe is not a superpower, it's a collection of small powers who rely on America to bind it all together

mind you, practically every MAGA Republican I know despises Europe and does not want to fight for it

so they would be perfectly happy for NATO to dissolve

in fact, MAGA Republicans actually side with Russia

I talk to MAGA Republicans who want their alliance to be America & Russia vs Europe

so careful what you wish for, Europe

Edited January 31 by Dougie93

Dougie93 · January 31

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

The fact that the US can no longer be trusted will result in some significant changes in the way countries think about defence. That willl be a lasting legacy of MAGA that I'm not sure Americans will like.

Democrats won't like it, but that is in fact what MAGA Republicans want

they are Fortress America Firster Isolationists

they want out of all of America's military alliances

they don't want to fight any wars for other countries at all

they want to expand and improve the US Military ; peace through strength

but they want to go back to the Pre World Wars era, when America only fought for America

they view America's alliances as a burden not a boon

this movement started way before Trump got involved

this is all reactionary to 9-11, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the 2008 Financial crisis

9-11 is the moment where America Firster Isolationism is reborn

you got out to be the world police and that is what happens to you

Edited January 31 by Dougie93

NAME REMOVED · January 31

42 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

He wants to glorify himself by humbling other countries,

You should see the translated response from the Colombian President, when translated into English. It's brutal. Colombians sure have balls. It should be noted that Trump immediately backed off.

Edit: Here it is..

"Trump, I don't really like travelling to the US, it's a bit boring, but I confess that there are some commendable things. I like going to the black neighbourhoods of Washington, where I saw an entire fight in the US capital between blacks and Latinos with barricades, which seemed like nonsense to me, because they should join together.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman and Paul Simon and Noam Chomsky and Miller I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, are memorable in the history of the USA and I follow them. They were murdered by labor leaders with the electric chair, the fascists who are within the USA as well as within my country I don't like your oil, Trump, you're going to wipe out the human species because of greed.

Maybe one day, over a glass of whiskey, which I accept, despite my gastritis, we can talk frankly about this, but it's difficult because you consider me an inferior race and I'm not, nor is any Colombian. So if you know someone who is stubborn, that's me, period. You can try to carry out a coup with your economic strength and your arrogance, like they did with Allende. But I will die in my law, I resisted torture and I resist you.

I don't want slavers next to Colombia, we already had many and we freed ourselves. What I want next to Colombia are lovers of freedom. If you can't accompany me, I'll go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world and you didn't understand that, this is the land of the yellow butterflies, of the beauty of Remedios, but also of the colonels Aureliano Buendía, of which I am one, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my people, which is before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea and of freedom. You don't like our freedom, okay. I don't shake hands with white slavers. I shake hands with the white libertarian heirs of Lincoln and the black and white farm boys of the USA, at whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking the mountains of Italian Tuscany and after being saved from Covid.

They are the United States and before them I kneel, before no one else. Overthrow me, President, and the Americas and humanity will respond. Colombia now stops looking north, looks at the world, our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Cordoba, the civilization of that time, of the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood has the black resistance fighters turned into slaves by you.

In Colombia is the first free territory of America, before Washington, of all America, there I take refuge in its African songs. My land is made up of goldsmiths who worked in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete. You will never rule us.

The warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, who is called Bolívar, opposes us. Our people are somewhat fearful, somewhat timid, they are naive and kind, loving, but they will know how to win the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all of Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, today's Panama, formerly Colombia, which you murdered.

I raise a flag and as Gaitán said, even if it remains alone, it will continue to be raised with the Latin American dignity that is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather did not know, and mine did, Mr. President, an immigrant in the USA,

Your blockade does not scare me, because Colombia, besides being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know that you love beauty as I do, do not disrespect it and you will give it your sweetness.

FROM TODAY ON, COLOMBIA IS OPEN TO THE ENTIRE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE AND HUMANITY.

I am informed that you impose a 50% tariff on the fruits of our human labor to enter the United States, and I do the same. Let our people plant corn that was discovered in Colombia and feed the world"

Edited January 31 by DUI_Offender

BeaverFever · January 31

To be fair Heinz Ketchup that’s sold in Canada is made in Canada by Canadian workers using Canadian ingredients as they keep trying to tell everyone.

impartialobserver · February 1

I think that I will purchase some Tragically Hip stuff. infinitesimally small impact but that's ok

CdnFox · February 1

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

To be fair Heinz Ketchup that’s sold in Canada is made in Canada by Canadian workers using Canadian ingredients as they keep trying to tell everyone.

Not always. They've admitted in periods of high demand they bring in stock from the us (it's marked as such).

SO they could still find themselves on the wrong end of a boycott

Hodad · February 1

9 hours ago, Aristides said:

That's a fantastic analysis.

godzilla · February 1

Threats, pleas and videotape: How North America is trying to head off Trump’s tariffs

"Finance Minister Dominic LeBlanc, who has been to Mar-a-Lago twice since November, sent video receipts to Lutnick in hopes he would pass it on to the president — the assumption being that Trump might prefer watching news over reading it. A person familiar with the video was not sure it had been viewed by the president."

this was actually suggested by his sycophants. because, of course, his "administration" has not idea what he wants and no power to affect it.

NAME REMOVED · February 1

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

To be fair Heinz Ketchup that’s sold in Canada is made in Canada by Canadian workers using Canadian ingredients as they keep trying to tell everyone.

I'm sticking with Frenches.

eyeball · February 1

7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Less than 1% of US fentanyl seizures occur at the Canadian border. Our criminals simply can’t compete with their Mexican colleagues on price. Trump and Lutnick don’t seem to be aware of this.

I'm sure they're both quite aware, they just don't give a damn.

Trump is an arsonist and Lutnick just wants more wealth and power.

SpankyMcFarland · February 1

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm sure they're both quite aware, they just don't give a damn.

Trump is an arsonist and Lutnick just wants more wealth and power.

I would question whether Trump actually knows that.

eyeball · February 1

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So if our oil is costing a lot more that will show up directly at the pumps and that will severely honk off the people who represent trump's base

And the funniest thing about this is that the whiny little dingbats will likely still be paying less than us.

eyeball · February 1

Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would question whether Trump actually knows that.

He pretty clearly said less was coming across from Canada on the news the other night.

Of course he never said squat about taking responsibility for stopping American guns illegally crossing the border our way. I'm sure he knows all about them too.

eyeball · February 1

So the Orange dirtbag says maybe only a 10% import tariff on our oil...so maybe only a 15% export tariff from our side.

Sounds about right eh?

eyeball · February 1

Trump's supporters don't appear to have a clue about what's going to hit them. They haven't been following his tariff malarky anywhere near as much as Canadians and other people around the world. They're overtaking Putin's donkey people for the title of stupidest followers on the planet.

They'll be in for such an immediate price shock their reaction could just as easily have this turned around faster than tariffs have a chance to even register here.

I won't be the least bit surprised if some sort of self-appointed star chamber of rational capitalists arranges to have Trump liquidated.

Sure...like I'm the only one ~~hoping~~ thinking that.

herbie · February 1

He's gonna dangle tariff threats for the next 4 years. Like a worm eating his brain

eyeball · February 1

He's the worm eating America's brains.

CdnFox · February 1

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

And the funniest thing about this is that the whiny little dingbats will likely still be paying less than us.

For sure. No carbon tax

But to them gas is almost symbolic. I've noticed the outrage in the us is always higher than you'd see in similar circumstances in Canada. Or so it seems.

29 minutes ago, herbie said:

He's gonna dangle tariff threats for the next 4 years. Like a worm eating his brain

Well that's why it's best to just lean into it and say "if you're gonna, then do it and we'll see how that goes.

ANY war or major conflict hurts. But at least no one is likely to die. We would just have to weather it.

Mind you we'll be in a much better position to deal with it come the fall, be nice if we could buy a LITTLE time to sort out our mess at home. What timing.

eyeball · February 1

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But to them gas is almost symbolic. I've noticed the outrage in the us is always higher than you'd see in similar circumstances in Canada. Or so it seems.

Yup, it takes a really dedicated effort to make Canadians give up on doing the smart thing. That said, wait until the price of gas goes up even higher with PP's plan to address CO2 emissions tacked on. His supporters will just as obliviously and dedicatedly vote for him and then deferentially burn 10$ worth of gas to save $5.

CdnFox · February 1

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yup, it takes a really dedicated effort to make Canadians give up on doing the smart thing. That said, wait until the price of gas goes up even higher with PP's plan to address CO2 emissions tacked on. His supporters will just as obliviously and dedicatedly vote for him and then deferentially burn 10$ worth of gas to save $5.

Says the guy who backed the carbon tax

By the way, I see that goes better and better every day with the public. Now 2/3 want it gone

Two-thirds of Canadians support suspending carbon tax: Poll | Toronto Sun

You and your people sure did a bang-up job fighting for the climate didn't you

Canadians are actually more tolerant of fuel increases. They have a breaking point too but frequently tolerate increases that would send Americans apoplectic.

The sudden spike in fuel costs right now would not go over well

eyeball · February 1

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Says the guy who backed the carbon tax

Yup.

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Canadians are actually more tolerant of fuel increases. They have a breaking point too but frequently tolerate increases that would send Americans apoplectic.

The sudden spike in fuel costs right now would not go over well

Yup I already said that too.

Of course you lickspittles will get all squeamish tomorrow when it comes to using oil, our most important weapon to hopefully precipitate a MAGA backlash against Trump and his new improved version of MAGA - Making America Goofy Again.

myata · February 1

The second time a major trade agreement ripped in less than a decade. America is no longer a reliable partner and cannot get her act together. It's turning into a narcissist bully who every so often and on every pretext will seek to punish her partners for the problems of her own making. No rational basis for cooperation. Just too bad.

Edited February 1 by myata

NAME REMOVED · February 1

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BeaverFever · February 1

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

fair point

100 nuclear submarines was over the top

again tho, Europe is not one big force, it's a bunch of small forces which are all the same

and they're not full spectrum, they all perform the same narrow spectrum of operations

and the Europeans are not actually that unified, they don't actually get along in terms of who would be in charge

Europe is not a superpower, it's a collection of small powers who rely on America to bind it all together

mind you, practically every MAGA Republican I know despises Europe and does not want to fight for it

so they would be perfectly happy for NATO to dissolve

in fact, MAGA Republicans actually side with Russia

I talk to MAGA Republicans who want their alliance to be America & Russia vs Europe

so careful what you wish for, Europe