eyeball Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 1 hour ago, blackbird said: Why don't you think it should be shared equally between provinces? I think the pain should be shared equally between provinces. Smith doesn't, she wants a special carve-out for Alberta. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Aristides Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 53 minutes ago, August1991 said: Norway has access to the ocean. Alberta does not. Ask Newfoundland about this. Norway also doesn't share its tax revenues with 9 other countries. PET basically tried to this with the NEP, Alberta lost it. Quote
Aristides Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: I think the pain should be shared equally between provinces. Smith doesn't, she wants a special carve-out for Alberta. Quote "If one region or one industry ends up carrying a larger burden of defending Canadians, we will make sure that all Canadians step up to support that region or industry. We're in this together." JT And this is the way it should be. 1 Quote
August1991 Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 28 minutes ago, Aristides said: Norway also doesn't share its tax revenues with 9 other countries. PET basically tried to this with the NEP, Alberta lost it. Good point. Norway has its own currency, and is not part of the EU. Smart Lutherans? Sustainable? Quote
August1991 Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 33 minutes ago, Aristides said: JT And this is the way it should be. There is a reason our BNA Act gives natural resources to provinces. Quote
eyeball Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, August1991 said: There is a reason our BNA Act gives natural resources to provinces. That reason stops at the coastline. If Ottawa treated Alberta's oil the way it treats every province that depends on a marine fishery it would have separated decades ago. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cannuck Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 1 hour ago, eyeball said: I think the pain should be shared equally between provinces. Smith doesn't, she wants a special carve-out for Alberta. You have no idea just how much the ROC is enslaved by the Feds to pander to Quebec. It goes miles beyond any "special carvout" - it is a blatant abuse of the rrights and privileges of every level of government in the whole country. 1 Quote
eyeball Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 5 minutes ago, cannuck said: You have no idea just how much the ROC is enslaved by the Feds to pander to Quebec. It goes miles beyond any "special carvout" - it is a blatant abuse of the rrights and privileges of every level of government in the whole country. Two wrongs don't make it any less right. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
blackbird Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, eyeball said: Smith doesn't, she wants a special carve-out for Alberta. The evidence is that the Liberals have no use for Alberta and the energy industry. The history is the Liberals have been attacking the oil and gas industry and denying pipelines and putting restrictions on it. So it is natural to think the Liberals will use this opportunity to hammer the energy industry in Alberta by putting a high tariffs on oil and gas exports to the U.S. or cutting off the export of oil and gas from Alberta. The suspicion is the Liberals would seriously harm the energy industry in Alberta while doing much less with the exports of the other provinces. Edited January 18 by blackbird 1 Quote
herbie Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 18 minutes ago, blackbird said: The evidence is that the Liberals have no use for Alberta and the energy industry What a stupid claim. You've fully bought into the separatist propaganda. Don't ever try to whine about Quebec again you lost all credibility. Quote
CdnFox Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 4 hours ago, eyeball said: Because they elected a hard-boiled chud to run the place. That's not an answer. So you realized what you said was stupid and you're trying to distract from talking about it. Fair enough. Quote And specifically within Canada. And? Who says you shouldn't put y your part of canada ahead of the rest? Quebec has often enough hasn't it? Ontario has often enough. So what's different now? Quote No, we're like the poor hapless souls screaming in the backseat of the car Grandpa's sleep-driving over the cliff. Your family is really really weird. You're that way because you can only vote based on your hatred and intense tribalism. The rest of us are different. The people of alberta for example got sick of the woke left electing leaders eager to smash them and voted in a leader that would stand up for them. So there you go. Quote
Aristides Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 1 hour ago, blackbird said: The evidence is that the Liberals have no use for Alberta and the energy industry. The history is the Liberals have been attacking the oil and gas industry and denying pipelines and putting restrictions on it. So it is natural to think the Liberals will use this opportunity to hammer the energy industry in Alberta by putting a high tariffs on oil and gas exports to the U.S. or cutting off the export of oil and gas from Alberta. The suspicion is the Liberals would seriously harm the energy industry in Alberta while doing much less with the exports of the other provinces. So why did they spend over $30 billion to complete TMX? Quote
CdnFox Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 4 hours ago, eyeball said: I think the pain should be shared equally between provinces. Smith doesn't, she wants a special carve-out for Alberta. Why? The pain hasn't been shared equally for the last 10 years, why start now? 1 hour ago, herbie said: What a stupid claim. You've fully bought into the separatist propaganda. Don't ever try to whine about Quebec again you lost all credibility. He's 100 percent right. You're 100 percent stupid. Which is why you're mad about it. Quote
CdnFox Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: So why did they spend over $30 billion to complete TMX? Because they're incompetent, it was supposed to cost a fraction of that but they screwed it up. But if they're pro pipeline why'd they shoot down northern gateway? Or the eastern pipelines? Why'd they insist that we can't sell LNG to japan or germany? Why have they tried to punish the oilsands and alberta time and again? Why did they let xl go without even a whimper or attempt to recover any money, and just bent over? but yeah, they're really pro alberta right? Quote
blackbird Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 12 hours ago, Aristides said: So why did they spend over $30 billion to complete TMX? quote The Liberal government will buy the Trans Mountain pipeline and related infrastructure for $4.5 billion, and could spend billions more to build the controversial expansion. Finance Minister Bill Morneau announced details of the agreement reached with Kinder Morgan at a news conference with Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr this morning, framing the short-term purchase agreement as financially sound and necessary to ensure a vital piece of energy infrastructure gets built. How much will the pipeline end up costing Canadians? 'When it's in Canadians' advantage to know them...then of course that's going to be fully transparent,' says Bill Morneau. "Make no mistake, this is an investment in Canada's future," Morneau said. Morneau said the project is in the national interest, and proceeding with it will preserve jobs, reassure investors and get resources to world markets. He said he couldn't state exactly what additional costs will be incurred by the Canadian public to build the expansion, but suggested a toll paid by oil companies could offset some costs and that there would be a financial return on the investment. Kinder Morgan had estimated the cost of building the expansion would be $7.4 billion, but Morneau insisted that the project will not have a fiscal impact, or "hit." unquote Liberals to buy Trans Mountain pipeline for $4.5B to ensure expansion is built | CBC News Obviously they purchased it because they had no choice. At the time they paid 4.5 billion dollars. After that the price of everything exploded. Quote
cannuck Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 11:33 PM, CdnFox said: Because they're incompetent, it was supposed to cost a fraction of that but they screwed it up. but yeah, they're really pro alberta right? Oh, Grasshopper, I have to take you to task...again. They are 100% competent at executing their actual plans. Do you have an idea how much porkfat drips out of a barrel overrunning by $20++ BILLION???? There are chiefs and band counsellors smiling all of the way to their offshore bank accounts with all of the generosity we taxpayers used to buy their obligations to the LPC. Quote
Aristides Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, cannuck said: Oh, Grasshopper, I have to take you to task...again. They are 100% competent at executing their actual plans. Do you have an idea how much porkfat drips out of a barrel overrunning by $20++ BILLION???? There are chiefs and band counsellors smiling all of the way to their offshore bank accounts with all of the generosity we taxpayers used to buy their obligations to the LPC. Compensation for inconvenience and restoration of properties did cost a lot. The line runs through several residential areas in my town and right through the middle of Ledgeview golf course, the home course of Adam Hadwin and Nick Taylor. I know a guy in Chiliwack who was offered $80K plus having his property restored by Kinder Morgan before they sold. That's just one residential lot. Edited January 19 by Aristides Quote
cannuck Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Compensation for inconvenience and restoration of properties did cost a lot. The line runs through several residential areas in my town and right through the middle of Ledgeview golf course, the home course of Adam Hadwin and Nick Taylor. Pretty sure that was all budgeted in the $8Bn Kinder Morgan would have spent. It is not their first pipeline. Sadly few readers could even begin to imagine how corrupt Ottawa is - regardless of what party is in power. Quote
Aristides Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Just now, cannuck said: Pretty sure that was all budgeted in the $8Bn Kinder Morgan would have spent. It is not their first pipeline. Sadly few readers could even begin to imagine how corrupt Ottawa is - regardless of what party is in power. And then there is the possibility that Kinder Morgan came to realize there wasn't a hope in hell of building the thing for 8 billion. Politics was only part of the reason Energy East was cancelled. TCP also cited industry economics at the time became such that there was no longer a good business case for it. When it was cancelled in 2017, Keystone XL looked like a go again with Trump's election. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 8:59 PM, Aristides said: JT And this is the way it should be. Why, can you give us a couple of examples of when the ROC sacrificed anything for the oil and gas sector....other than buying a pipeline that BC did not want in the first place, 'which was the entire problem" ...I mean Canada talks a good game about one for all and all for one, but lets face it we are the most divided we have ever been, Nobody has stood up for the oil and gas provinces when justin brought in all those policies to restrict drilling, ands exploration, not to mention all the climate change policies that work against them...Why , because Canadians don't care about anything outside their own bubbles.... And now everyone wants to play together it just does not make sense...Smith is looking after her provinces interests, and justin is using this gap between Alberta and canada to his own advantage to divide us even further... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Aristides Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Why, can you give us a couple of examples of when the ROC sacrificed anything for the oil and gas sector....other than buying a pipeline that BC did not want in the first place, 'which was the entire problem" ...I mean Canada talks a good game about one for all and all for one, but lets face it we are the most divided we have ever been, Nobody has stood up for the oil and gas provinces when justin brought in all those policies to restrict drilling, ands exploration, not to mention all the climate change policies that work against them...Why , because Canadians don't care about anything outside their own bubbles.... And now everyone wants to play together it just does not make sense...Smith is looking after her provinces interests, and justin is using this gap between Alberta and canada to his own advantage to divide us even further... 80% of the TMX runs through BC and other than construction (many of which went to Albertans anyway, I saw lots of Alberta plates among those working on it) and a few maintenance jobs, BC gets nothing out of it except 90% of the environmental risk. Polls actually showed a majority of BCers in favour of the pipeline. The government's opposition was to appease its base in Vancouver, Burnaby and the Island. I live in the Fraser Valley and there was no opposition to it, no demonstrations or vandalism at all even though it runs right through some of its cities. It isn't just Alberta, there has been lots of opposition to natural gas projects in Northern BC as well. Edited January 19 by Aristides Quote
Army Guy Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: 80% of the TMX runs through BC and other than construction and a few maintenance jobs, BC gets nothing out of it except 90% of the environmental risk. Polls actually showed a majority of BCers in favour of the pipeline. The government's opposition was to appease its base in Vancouver, Burnaby and the Island. I live in the Fraser Valley and there was no opposition to it, no demonstrations or vandalism at all even though it runs right through some of its cities. It isn't just Alberta, there has been lots of opposition to natural gas projects in Northern BC as well. Well there are refinery jobs, jobs at the terminals, some one has to look after the pumping stations, etc....and then there is the supply of refined gas and diesel, and jet fuel, all of which is at a savings to you, more jobs and income for bc..I think opposition was just people trying to get their share of the pie...I think this is an example of not supporting Alberta in it's time of need... I thought there was a huge natural gas refinery being built in kitimat costing billions in investments, which also will provide more jobs and income for BC, not to mention be better for the climate. once again i think everyone has a hand out and wants it share... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Aristides Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Well there are refinery jobs, jobs at the terminals, some one has to look after the pumping stations, etc....and then there is the supply of refined gas and diesel, and jet fuel, all of which is at a savings to you, more jobs and income for bc..I think opposition was just people trying to get their share of the pie...I think this is an example of not supporting Alberta in it's time of need... I thought there was a huge natural gas refinery being built in kitimat costing billions in investments, which also will provide more jobs and income for BC, not to mention be better for the climate. once again i think everyone has a hand out and wants it share... TMX doesn't feed refineries on the west coast, they can't process the stuff. It all goes into tankers and is shipped to refineries in the far east and Gulf of Mexico. The TMX is 100% for Alberta oil exports, there was no other reason to build it. Yes there is a natural gas line being built to tidewater in BC and it has had its share of opposition and vandalism. It is also not being paid for by Canadian tax payers. Edited January 19 by Aristides Quote
Army Guy Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Aristides said: TMX doesn't feed refineries on the west coast, they can't process the stuff. It all goes into tankers and is shipped to refineries in the far east and Gulf of Mexico. The TMX is 100% for Alberta oil exports, there was no other reason to build it. I'm confused , i thought the TMX was pushing light and heavy crude through the pipelines along with processed fuels...surely BC refineries can process heavy and light crude....Bitumen is the elephant in the room, with only few refineries being able to handle it, none of which are in BC.... Does BC not use any of the process fuels coming in on the pipeline if not why? why is BC relient on fuels from the US, when there is a pipeline pushing Canadian product.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Aristides Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I'm confused , i thought the TMX was pushing light and heavy crude through the pipelines along with processed fuels...surely BC refineries can process heavy and light crude....Bitumen is the elephant in the room, with only few refineries being able to handle it, none of which are in BC.... Does BC not use any of the process fuels coming in on the pipeline if not why? why is BC relient on fuels from the US, when there is a pipeline pushing Canadian product.... No the original Transmountain ships light crude and refined product in batches. Light crude for the Parkland refinery in Burnaby and the refineries in Ferndale and Anacortes Washington, as well as refined product for BC because we can now only refine less than 50% of what we need, since our oil companies decided to shut down three refineries and move production to Edmonton. The TMX expansion that cost over 30B is exclusively for the export of Alberta heavy oil. But keep it up, I'm sure your posts are music to Trump's ears. Edited January 19 by Aristides 1 Quote
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