The sad state of Canadian leadership concerning Israel and the middle east

[blackbird]

"

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly shockingly admitted her riding’s demographics influence her foreign policies and is attempting to bolster her leadership prospects. With that background, she refused to send lethal and even non-lethal weapons to Israel and confirmed funding for UNRWA hours after it acknowledged it had employed the slain Hamas leader. Joly pretends to support Israel’s right to defend itself but insisted it should not respond, to avoid “further escalation,” after Iran launched 180 missiles into Israel. The same argument was made by Neville Chamberlain after Hitler seized the Sudetenland.

Why is the Canadian government treating a state sponsor of terrorism with kid gloves? What about the Liberal refrain that it will always protect women, the LGBTQ community and minorities from appalling discrimination? Canada’s voice is inaudible to Israelis, given its virtue-signalling hypocrisy, and to everyone else tired of hectoring from a defence free-rider. If the government is determined to be of no practical assistance to a democratic ally under intense siege on seven fronts, at least its diplomacy should reflect Canadian values, which means being on the right side of a defining global conflict.

Justin Trudeau has failed the minimum requirements for decency, moral clarity and national self-interest. Is it due to a desperate concern about vanishing votes in selected ridings, a lack of strategic vision, or a twisted post-modern ideology? Regardless, the sooner Canada is rid of the moral rot, the sooner Canadians can hold their heads high again."

Joe Oliver: Canada’s irresolute response to Iranian terror reeks of moral rot (msn.com)

[herbie]

Good God read something other than Post newspapers.
There's a big difference between criticism of Netanyahu's excesses and antisemitism and not taking measures to stop the spread of hostilities is what would be immoral.
And it's also very obvious you hate Trudeau so much you haven't even listened to a word he's spoken on the whole matter, and you aren't ever going to.

[suds]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly shockingly admitted her riding’s demographics influence her foreign policies and is attempting to bolster her leadership prospects.

Well at least she's being honest. But being honest and being honest with oneself are two entirely different things. There's a political price to be paid for being honest with oneself and letting the chips fall where they may. Ask Jody Wilson-Raybould.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

Good God read something other than Post newspapers.
There's a big difference between criticism of Netanyahu's excesses and antisemitism and not taking measures to stop the spread of hostilities is what would be immoral.
And it's also very obvious you hate Trudeau so much you haven't even listened to a word he's spoken on the whole matter, and you aren't ever going to.

I think most reasonable people would prefer peace.  The problem is Hezbollah, a proxy for Iranian foreign policy against Israel (among others), has been launching attacks at Israel.  That's a clear act of war.

Israel would likely be attacked by them less had they not illegally occupied the West Bank and the Golan Heights.  Israel would not have occupied the West Bank and the Golan Heights had Israel not been attacked by its Arab neighbours in 1967.  I could keep going for 1400 years.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I think most reasonable people would prefer peace.  The problem is Hezbollah, a proxy for Iranian foreign policy against Israel (among others), has been launching attacks at Israel.  That's a clear act of war.

Everyone knows that. But reasonable people also judge on how you conduct war. And being a minor player country that shows how different peoples can live civilly is all we can do, we can't make them.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The problem is Hezbollah, a proxy for Iranian foreign policy against Israel (among others), has been launching attacks at Israel.  That's a clear act of war.

The problem is Zionism coupled with a religious belief that God gave them all the land between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Zionists believe  its theirs and that they don't have to share. Their over reach is astounding and has reached the point where they are bombing UN Peace Keepers around the Red line.  They will if they don't rein in their blood lust loose the support of their allies in Western Europe.  

[ExFlyer]

The sad state of Canadian leadership

period!

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, Old Guy said:

The problem is Zionism coupled with a religious belief that God gave them all the land between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Zionists believe  its theirs and that they don't have to share. Their over reach is astounding and has reached the point where they are bombing UN Peace Keepers around the Red line.  They will if they don't rein in their blood lust loose the support of their allies in Western Europe.  

Did you pull this out of your rectum....The land they have now was given to them by league of nations mandate, and what was collected in time of war...And Canadians should be the last people to bring up land that does not belong to them....

Israel has very little support in western europe right now...or for that matter around the globe....including Canada with it's liberal government..The fact they are engaged with the two largest terrorist groups on the globe, is telling they are making the world a safer place and your saying they should be reined in becasue  what ? you like terrorist, you don't like how conflicts are fought...

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

rectum....The land they have now was given to them by league of nations mandate

The league of nations had no business giving it.

See that story recently about police seizing stolen vintage cars from owners who'd possessed them for years? Too bad so sad eh?

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The league of nations had no business giving it.

Usual anti-Semitism.

They certainly have the right to their land.  They occupied it long ago.  They are surrounded by Islamists who of course want to take over.  Israel is the only country in the middle east that is a democratic country and a friend of the west.   

You think the Palestinian Arabs and Muslims would be better friends of the west?  Their values are totally the opposite of western values.

Edited October 12 by blackbird

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

Everyone knows that. But reasonable people also judge on how you conduct war. And being a minor player country that shows how different peoples can live civilly is all we can do, we can't make them.

No not everyone knows that.  Some claim Israel is escalating the conflict, which it is.  Iran and it's proxy firing missiles at Israel is the main escalation, but these people think Israel is the bad guy and aggressor.

Canadian politicians wagging their fingers while letting another country do most of their foreign military protection for them while pretending to be more virtuous is a bit rich.  We don't have to live under constant attack.

It's also clear that Melanie Joly hasn't a clue and can barely tie her shoelaces let alone analyze foreign affairs.  She's in her cabinet position because she's a woman, not because she's the most competent.  Appearances matter more than substance in a Trudeau gov.

[eyeball]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

They certainly have the right to their land. 

So do Palestinians.

[Moonlight Graham]

16 hours ago, Old Guy said:

The problem is Zionism coupled with a religious belief that God gave them all the land between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Zionists believe  its theirs and that they don't have to share. Their over reach is astounding and has reached the point where they are bombing UN Peace Keepers around the Red line.  They will if they don't rein in their blood lust loose the support of their allies in Western Europe.  

And the Arabs have been willing to share?  And don't believe it's Muslim land?  You've been listening to too many activists and repeating their narratives.  Do your own research.

Israel told the UN peacekeepers to leave and have told them they'll be launching attacks near their area.  If they don't leave during an active war that's on them. They aren't "bombing UN peacekeepers".  Israel has a right to defend themselves and the UNs job isn't to act as human shields to prevent conflict.

You're spreading false narratives and it needs to stop.  Again, do your own research and stop believing twitter activists.

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Usual anti-Semitism.

Fu ck you too btw.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

They are making the world a safer place

Unless the Zionists are prepared to kill every Palestinian child in Gaza and the West Bank they are creating a generation that will grow up knowing that their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends were killed when a missile or a bomb demolished their home.  What do you think they'll want to do when they grow up?

I honestly don't think you have any concept of what it might be like growing up in a prison. Palestinians used to have a homeland which has been seriously shrunk and which they have to ask permission to leave.  As an "Army Guy" I would have thought you would be appalled to hear that two Peace Keepers were injured when they came under fire by Zionist forces. A short news report on the incident can be found here

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

your saying they should be reined in becasue  what ? you like terrorist, you don't like how conflicts are fought...

Re-read what I wrote I actually said they (Zionists) needed to rein in their over reach or they would loose support in Europe. 

[Old Guy]

36 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

And the Arabs have been willing to share?  And don't believe it's Muslim land?  You've been listening to too many activists and repeating their narratives.  Do your own research.

Israel told the UN peacekeepers to leave and have told them they'll be launching attacks near their area.  If they don't leave during an active war that's on them. They aren't "bombing UN peacekeepers".  Israel has a right to defend themselves and the UNs job isn't to act as human shields to prevent conflict.

You're spreading false narratives and it needs to stop.  Again, do your own research and stop believing twitter activists.

In 1967 I spent 4 months travelling through Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Iran. I was living in Jordan when the six day war broke out. I realize a visit that short doesn't count as research or make me an expert but the people I met were good people, I visited them in their homes and on at least one occasion visited a Palestinian refugee camp. The fact is that I believe that the Zionists will never agree to a two state solution and will never stop until they have all of Palestine.

Your right Israel did tell the UN Peace Keepers to abandon their posts. But since Zionists are not in their chain of command they refused. I know that the Zionists have been ordering people to move here, there and everywhere this past year and have probably come to think they are entitled to do so but no they can't. Here is a news report that will explain.

Quote

 

 

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Usual anti-Semitism.

They certainly have the right to their land.  They occupied it long ago.  They are surrounded by Islamists who of course want to take over.  Israel is the only country in the middle east that is a democratic country and a friend of the west.   

You think the Palestinian Arabs and Muslims would be better friends of the west?  Their values are totally the opposite of western values.

Antisemitism is defined as hostility or discrimination towards Jewish people.  I have critiqued the way the Zionists have conducted the war. Specifically their over-reach. That is not antisemitism but if it were all the Jewish people inside Israel and in other countries protesting the conduct of the war would be anti-Semites.  That would be akin to saying they disagree with the way Trudeau has governed the country is un-Canadian. The Zionists have used the label to shut down honest discussion.  

Friendship is a two way street and I don't think I can bring to mind when Canada has shown friendship towards Palestinians. 

One thing I have learned in my travels is that people generally all want the same thing regardless of their religion, the political system they grew up in and even the things they value in life.  But for some reason we've become better at spotting differences than commonalities and to be afraid of those differences rather than curious. 

[herbie]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Canadian politicians wagging their fingers while letting another country do most of their foreign military protection for them

F off with that tired bullshit song. Protected us from what exactly?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

So do Palestinians.

The Palestinians are Arab Muslims and already occupy all the countries surrounding Israel.  The area Israel occupies is a very tiny part.  Muslims do not think they have the right to exist.  Same as you.  Why should they give it up to Palestinians.  Are you some kind Islamist?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

That is not antisemitism but if it were all the Jewish people inside Israel and in other countries protesting the conduct of the war would be anti-Semites. 

This is anit-Semitism and has been for 2,000 years.  Practically all of Europe which was the western world has been anti-Semitic all through history.  Same in Russia and much of the rest of the world.  Much of Europe and most of the countries in the U.N. are anti-Semitic. That is just the way their brain works. You need to study or read some history on it.

As far as how the war is conducted, Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist groups only purpose for being is to kill Israelis and try to destroy Israel.  If they have those kind of neighbours, there is not much else they can do than what they are doing.  They cannot just sit back and let the terrorists re-organize, get more weapons and prepare to attack again.  Saying Israel should just stop fighting them is extremely ignorant.

Edited October 12 by blackbird

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Muslims do not think they have the right to exist.  Same as you

Did you know that Palestinians and Israelis fall in love, get married and have kids - how do explain that given what you just said?

You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Did you know that Palestinians and Israelis fall in love, get married and have kids - how do explain that given what you just said?

You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

There might be a few, but that is not what Hamas and Hezbollah do.  You know that.  Don't play dumb.

[eyeball]

52 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There might be a few, but that is not what Hamas and Hezbollah do.  You know that.  Don't play dumb.

No they're a lot more like the IDF alright.

[Old Guy]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Palestinians are Arab Muslims and already occupy all the countries surrounding Israel.  The area Israel occupies is a very tiny part.  Muslims do not think they have the right to exist.  Same as you.  Why should they give it up to Palestinians.  Are you some kind Islamist?

Do you actually believe that all Muslim Arabs are inter-changeable with one another? That an Iraqi can move to Beirut and settle in just like its home. You seem to think that they all think the same and believe the same way. Just think for a minute No religion is monolithic everyone of them have any number of sects that divide them one from the other.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to read some history and not the history written by some Zionist apologist. Zionists began their attack against Palestinians before they were officially recognized as a country.  Europe and America had so much guilt for not stopping the holocaust sooner that they facilitated the surviving Jews return to Palestine.  The Jewish people have used that guilt to get everything they have asked for.  Anyone who waves the anti-Semite card like you did when you accused all Muslims of wanting Israel to be wiped out and that that's how I think as well is just wrong.  I do believe Israel has a right to exist and I think most Muslims do as well.  Oh and I'm  not an Islamist.

Whether there is ever going to be peace there depends on both factions negotiating as equals.

[August1991]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

....

Israel has very little support in western europe right now...or for that matter around the globe....including Canada with it's liberal government.

....

I disagree.

Israel has no support.

=====

But far more important, we in the West do not want war.