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Truth and Reconciliation


Truth and Reconcilation?  

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49 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

That was never the point of government policy towards them. First, government policy was to clear them off the land so it could be settled. That's when they were offered things to settle on other land. After that, the government found themselves locked into taking care of them.

Yeah the government moved them to shitty land and ensured they were unable to be self sufficient and now people like you are like "buh how did this dependency happen?"

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49 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

In other words, you assumed that the only reason a person wouldn't be racist towards Indigenous people is because tehy are one, which is wild.

You posted a bunch of irrelevant garbage to justify colonization and other atrocities.

Indigenous people have contributed plenty but I know that no example i give you will be good enough because you would inevitably claim those are outliers and that the people as a whole are useless.

LOL you clearly don't know the history of this country if you think that's how tit went down here. Here's a hint, google the treaties.

 

You said 40  generations, your website says 40 generations is 1065 years lol.

The settlers literally gave the Indigenous people booze you numpty.

Like I said, tough shit, that was the deal the Crown made.

You're obviously and openly extremely racist against native folks. Just own it dummy.

OK let's take a third of your kids away (assuming you have any) and give them to priests to r@pe, sound like a good deal to you?

Nope, I read the tone and respond in kind.

Nope, there was and is not anything irrelevant in my links. They are facts all historical. Your unwillingness to accept them only demonstrates your closed mind.

They have contributed?? Please, cite examples. Valid contributions, not rhetoric or aboriginal verbal history.

Canadian history was and is all written. When Canada became a country, they were kind enough to not wipe out the indigenous. This is more then the indigenous did to their conquered tribes. That kindness is carried on to today, 300 years later, and the indigenous have nothing but taken money and all they need since then. Treaties aside, the indigenous have done nothing to show they deserved anything. If left alone to fend for themselves, they would have eithe rintegrated or still hunting and trapping and trading and making clothing out of skins and using dog sleds. I would gladly give some land back but... cut you off everything else. Sort of making them shit or get off the pot and hopefully , getting off the pot LOL

Reading comprehension seems to be problematic for you. I said "What have you done for Canada in the past 300 years???? "  But regardless, you have not done anything or contributed anything be it 300 years, 40 generations or 1065 years.

You want booze, you take it...and that does not matter who you are. I take booze but am not an alcoholic or drunk. Like millions upon millions of others. Poor excuse for being a lazy drunk. Every addict has an excuse...boo hoo, it ain't my fault...numty LOL

As I have said numerous times, I am no racist at all, I am realist. The last resort of people that have no proof is to call others names. And you have no proof of any of your comments, claims or accusations.

Get over it, less than 1/3 of the kids went to residential schools and Canada has certainly paid them a lot of money plus whatever support they want.. You, if you didn't go,deserve diddly shit.

So, it is still down to what proof do you have of your accusations except your emotional meltdown?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ExFlyer

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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43 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Yeah the government moved them to shitty land and ensured they were unable to be self sufficient and now people like you are like "buh how did this dependency happen?"

Hey, they lived off the land for thousands of years...hunting fishing etc. Why could the not Also, they were not all moved. Most stayed where they were and that land was designated "reserves". But hey, it was easier to suck the government teat

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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35 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Hey, they lived off the land for thousands of years...hunting fishing etc. Why could the not

The government didn't want them living off the land because they wanted the land for settlement.

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Also, they were not all moved. Most stayed where they were and that land was designated "reserves". But hey, it was easier to suck the government teat

Not all were moved, but many were and most of the land was taken (hence the ongoing process of settling land claims).

 

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2 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The government didn't want them living off the land because they wanted the land for settlement

 

Bullshit.  Second largest country in the world and one of the smallest populations. The last thing they cared about was ' a shortage of land for settlement' .

If anything they wanted the first nations to continue because the bought the goods and pelts they brought in. 

 

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50 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Nope, I read the tone and respond in kind.

Nope, there was and is not anything irrelevant in my links. They are facts all historical. Your unwillingness to accept them only demonstrates your closed mind.

"The Indigenous people were mean to each other therefore it's ok that we f*cked them in turn" is not a relevant argument.

Quote

They have contributed?? Please, cite examples. Valid contributions, not rhetoric or aboriginal verbal history.

Nothing I give you will be accepted, be honest about that.

Quote

Canadian history was and is all written. When Canada became a country, they were kind enough to not wipe out the indigenous. This is more then the indigenous did to their conquered tribes. That kindness is carried on to today, 300 years later, and the indigenous have nothing but taken money and all they need since then. Treaties aside, the indigenous have done nothing to show they deserved anything. If left alone to fend for themselves, they would have eithe rintegrated or still hunting and trapping and trading and making clothing out of skins and using dog sleds. I would gladly give some land back but... cut you off everything else. Sort of making them shit or get off the pot and hopefully , getting off the pot LOL

"Treaties aside" lol the treaties are kind of significant here given they are the basis for relatyions betwen the Crwon and the indigenous people.

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Reading comprehension seems to be problematic for you. I said "What have you done for Canada in the past 300 years???? "  But regardless, you have not done anything or contributed anything be it 300 years, 40 generations or 1065 years.

This is what you said:  

18 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I am no racist, I am a realist and can see lazy ass bums when I see them. Canada has fed clothed, housed , educated and given you money for 40 generations and you have not given anything in return.

 

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You want booze, you take it...and that does not matter who you are. I take booze but am not an alcoholic or drunk. Like millions upon millions of others. Poor excuse for being a lazy drunk. Every addict has an excuse...boo hoo, it ain't my fault...numty LOL

Boy you are one ignorant mfer.

Quote

As I have said numerous times, I am no racist at all, I am realist. The last resort of people that have no proof is to call others names. And you have no proof of any of your comments, claims or accusations.

LOl if someone said the same shit you're saying here about any other racial group you'd probably call them racist too.

Quote

 

Get over it, less than 1/3 of the kids went to residential schools and Canada has certainly paid them a lot of money plus whatever support they want.. You, if you didn't go,deserve diddly shit.

So, it is still down to what proof do you have of your accusations except your emotional meltdown?

 

You keep posting racist stuff that proves my accusations.

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3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Bullshit.  Second largest country in the world and one of the smallest populations. The last thing they cared about was ' a shortage of land for settlement' .

Lol you aren't really this stupid are you? Have you ever wondered why so much of Canada's population lives with a 100 clicks of the U.S. border and not in the northern wilderness?

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If anything they wanted the first nations to continue because the bought the goods and pelts they brought in. 

The fur trade era was ending by the time of Confederation; the main driver of government policy vis a vis the native population at that point was the railroad and Western settlement.

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16 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Lol you aren't really this stupid are you?

LOL  ahh yes, your usual admission that you know you're wrong :)  "Derp... i don't have facts, lets go with insults!!!"

 

Quote

Have you ever wondered why so much of Canada's population lives with a 100 clicks of the U.S. border and not in the northern wilderness?

No, it's quite obvious to me and well documented. But we STILL have massive amounts of room for expansion there, and the first nations were never concentrated there.  Soooooo ... kinda blows your theory out of the water :) 

Quote

The fur trade era was ending by the time of Confederation; the main driver of government policy vis a vis the native population at that point was the railroad and Western settlement.

No, the fur trade was still at it's peak in the mid 19th century. it would decline later in the 19th century but it was still a major factor especially for the fathers of confederation. 

And at the time there was as mentioned tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of land. 

And further much of the issues around how the first nations would be treated was dicated by previous agreements with various kings, who had to sign off on Canada being confederated at all. 

we didn't need the land for settlement. And considering that a number of the reservations were right in prime land then your argument makes even less sense.  

Read a book once in a while. 

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31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL  ahh yes, your usual admission that you know you're wrong :)  "Derp... i don't have facts, lets go with insults!!!"

No it's an admission that you are quite stupid, just like it says

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Read a book once in a while. 

You first.

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22 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

No it's an admission that you are quite stupid, just like it says

 

And again ;)  LOL

Calm down big guy, it's just the internet

 

Quote

Sure, seems pretty unbiased and fairly researched  :) 

I suppose next you'll recommend i study jewish religion starting with mein kampf? :) 

If this is the crap you've been feeding your brain it's no wonder as mushy

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1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

The government didn't want them living off the land because they wanted the land for settlement.

Not all were moved, but many were and most of the land was taken (hence the ongoing process of settling land claims).

 

90% of the aboriginal reserves are waaaaay off the beaten path. And, those within city limits are weel paid and taken care of and collect lots of rewards. So, your argument is BS.

Most were not moved. Most chose where they are and stayed there because the Canadian tax payer support them with all they have.

As for land claims...the y are trying to claim everything for gawds sake LOL. They got everything for free and now want more... yeah right!! F'n arsholes.

 

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

"The Indigenous people were mean to each other therefore it's ok that we f*cked them in turn" is not a relevant argument.

Nothing I give you will be accepted, be honest about that.

"Treaties aside" lol the treaties are kind of significant here given they are the basis for relatyions betwen the Crwon and the indigenous people.

This is what you said:  

 

Boy you are one ignorant mfer.

LOl if someone said the same shit you're saying here about any other racial group you'd probably call them racist too.

You keep posting racist stuff that proves my accusations.

I supplied that fact the indigenous were warring society and did what they did when they conquered other tribes. It is not a matter of using that as an argument, just stating facts.

Hey, I provide facts, no matter how much you try to deflect, I had facts.

Dude, you have not given anything but emotional BS. You have not supported anything .....period so, you are a epic loser in your points and argument.

Yes "treaties aside" . Why should government be any more honourable that te indigenous themselves???

You still do not answer the question "what do the indigenous do for Canada other than take and take and take?

Yup, that is what I said..... can you disprove it? Duhhh no, you can't LOL It seems you are blinded by something and do not see the real world.

I never called anyone racist.... that is your mantra. I call them as I see them no matter who they are.

There you are calling me racist again. Your statement makes no sense at all. You have not proven a thing. You cannot back up any of your statements, comments or claims. You are losing this real bad. You seem to be a loser...sorry to say.

If you have some facts, please share them or, quit making more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

You are a sad representative of the people you are trying to defend LOL

Face it, over 70% of the poll respondents have no more sympathy for the indigenous. They are tired of the teat sucking society.

Also, many in this topic disagree with you but hey...you are right? NOT !!! LOL

 

 

 

Edited by ExFlyer

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And again ;)  LOL

Calm down big guy, it's just the internet

Sure, seems pretty unbiased and fairly researched  :) 

I suppose next you'll recommend i study jewish religion starting with mein kampf? :) 

If this is the crap you've been feeding your brain it's no wonder as mushy

LOL you're gonna cry about the bias in a book you haven't even read after claiming Lincoln owned slaves because you read it in an article about some crank's self-published book? lmao.

Sorry history triggers you, but sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change it.

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3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

90% of the aboriginal reserves are waaaaay off the beaten path. And, those within city limits are weel paid and taken care of and collect lots of rewards. So, your argument is BS.

LOL you didn't think this through did you. I'll give you a few minutes to see if you can figure it out.

 

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12 hours ago, eyeball said:

I sure am. As I understand it there's plenty of resistance to more oil and gas development there that is railroaded over.

Not getting your way when you complain isn't "railroading".  🙄

Considering oil and gas is ~20% of Alberta's economy, they evidently support it.  The existence of complainers somewhere doesn't make that untrue.  

This is normal though.  Towns employed by coal mines and coal fire plans support coal mining/burning, so we should leave them alone to make decisions at the local level, right?  All that matters is local decision making?

No, that's ridiculous.  

"A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous

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33 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

LOL you didn't think this through did you. I'll give you a few minutes to see if you can figure it out.

 

Prove me wrong.

Still no answers and still no proof.

You lose again LOL

In 30 seconds I found this.....:

"there are 3,394 reserves in Canada set aside for more than 600 First Nations. "

"many live in communities that are governed by land-claim decisions or self-government agreements. Traditional lands refer to an area that a Nation has occupied and used for many generations, long before reserve borders were imposed by the Indian Act."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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8 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Not getting your way when you complain isn't "railroading".  🙄

Considering oil and gas is ~20% of Alberta's economy, they evidently support it.  The existence of complainers somewhere doesn't make that untrue.  

This is normal though.  Towns employed by coal mines and coal fire plans support coal mining/burning, so we should leave them alone to make decisions at the local level, right?  All that matters is local decision making?

No, that's ridiculous.  

As ridiculous as a senior government also deciding to keep an asbestos mine open?

In the meantime I remember Ottawa's scientists from DFO closing our local hatchery because it produced so much fish it kept local boats and plants busy for months.  They literally said they didn't want yet another commercial fishery to manage. I was there at the meeting when they said it.

Notwithstanding asbestos I think a better more appropriate management path would be one that weaves back and forth closer to the middle.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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6 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

LOL you're gonna cry about the bias in a book you haven't even read after claiming Lincoln owned slaves because you read it in an article about some crank's self-published book? lmao.

I offered that book as an example and noted that this has been spoken of extensively ;)  And the author of that book doesn't have any reason to be bias. 

You produce one book without even a citation in it from hyper partisan authors and AFTER complaining about a research book and then whine about it being questioned :) 

AND the book you recommended doesn't seem to support your position. You said 

Sorry kiddo. :) 

But on the face of it your argument is ridiculous. 

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6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Prove me wrong.

Still no answers and still no proof.

You lose again LOL

In 30 seconds I found this.....:

"there are 3,394 reserves in Canada set aside for more than 600 First Nations. "

"many live in communities that are governed by land-claim decisions or self-government agreements. Traditional lands refer to an area that a Nation has occupied and used for many generations, long before reserve borders were imposed by the Indian Act."

OK I guess i have to explain it like you're a child: reserve lands represent a small fraction of the traditional territories for most Indigenous groups. Many of those groups were moved off their traditional territories onto reserves by the government so that land could be handed over to white settlers. The fact that so many of the reserve lands are "off the beaten path" as you say, located on non-arable land or away from transportation routes, is evidence of that policy. 

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

As ridiculous as a senior government also deciding to keep an asbestos mine open?

The mine that the locals wanted to keep open, and that was their primary source of employment?  You're proving my point here, bud.  

"A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous

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14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I offered that book as an example and noted that this has been spoken of extensively ;) 

So you say, but you have no proof. Just a classic "trust me bro."

Quote

And the author of that book doesn't have any reason to be bias. 

He works for the Abbeville Institute, an organization "dedicated to exploring what is true and valuable in the Southern tradition." Hmmm....

Quote

You produce one book without even a citation in it from hyper partisan authors and AFTER complaining about a research book and then whine about it being questioned :) 

Hyper partisan here meaning "they challenge my beliefs and I'm triggered!" Surprised you didn't accuse them of being socialists lol.

Quote

AND the book you recommended doesn't seem to support your position. You said 

You're telling me a book you haven't even read that details how the government used famine in order to coerce and control Indigenous people onto reserves to their land could be settled doesn't support my position that the government wanted native people confined to reserves so their land could be settled? LMAO what?

 

Edited by Black Dog
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18 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The mine that the locals wanted to keep open, and that was their primary source of employment?  You're proving my point here, bud.  

I'm admitting you're right that it's ridiculous - at least halfway.

How do we carve out the ridiculous so local and distant management can get serious?

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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36 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

OK I guess i have to explain it like you're a child: reserve lands represent a small fraction of the traditional territories for most Indigenous groups. Many of those groups were moved off their traditional territories onto reserves by the government so that land could be handed over to white settlers. The fact that so many of the reserve lands are "off the beaten path" as you say, located on non-arable land or away from transportation routes, is evidence of that policy. 

Dude, you are way off base here.

Firstly, there are "here are 1,127,010 First Nations in Canada.  There are over 630 First Nations communities in Canada, which represent more than 50 Nations and 50 Indigenous languages" and they did not "own" or even lay claim to all the land in Canada. They lived within walking distance of their shelter,. Prove me wrong. https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100013791/1535470872302

As pointed out, there are "3,394 reserves in Canada set aside for more than 600 First Nations. " all of whose population live there for free...housing, clothing infrastructure etc ... all free and every resident gets government monthly cheques.

The indigenous lost the war and therefore their "traditions lands" mean shit.

Their "reserves" are on their "traditional lands". They chose it.  No one was moved. If you claim that... prove that too.

The problem with you is you have no answers and make shit up. You are, as near as I can tell, lying about everything you say because you cannot back up or prove anything you say.

But hey, you are deflecting again. You still have not answered the question i asked you waaaay back "What have the indigenous done for Canada in the past 300 years????  What value do you add to Canadian society?" Answer that!!

 

 

Edited by ExFlyer

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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41 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

OK I guess i have to explain it like you're a child: reserve lands represent a small fraction of the traditional territories for most Indigenous groups. Many of those groups were moved off their traditional territories onto reserves by the government so that land could be handed over to white settlers. The fact that so many of the reserve lands are "off the beaten path" as you say, located on non-arable land or away from transportation routes, is evidence of that policy. 

Dude, you are way off base here.

As pointed out, there are "3,394 reserves in Canada set aside for more than 600 First Nations. According to the 2021 Census, there are 1,127,010 First Nations in Canada.https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100013791/1535470872302" all of whose population live there for free...housing, clothing infrastructure etc ... all free and every resident gets government monthly cheques.

The indigenous lost the war and therefore their "traditions lands" mean shit.

Their "reserves" are on their "traditional lands". They chose it.

But hey, you are deflecting again. You still have not answered the question i asked you waaaay back  "What have the indigenous done for Canada in the past 300 years????  What value do you add to Canadian society? Answer that!! "

 

 

 

Edited by ExFlyer
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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40 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

OK I guess i have to explain it like you're a child: reserve lands represent a small fraction of the traditional territories for most Indigenous groups. Many of those groups were moved off their traditional territories onto reserves by the government so that land could be handed over to white settlers.

Like who.  When.  Many, so more than half? A quarter? A 10th?  Seven? Were treaties signed indicating acceptance? 

I guess i have to explain it to you like you're a child. You're completely full of shit. 

The first nations are responsible for where they are today ,and they're the only ones who can address where they are tomorrow. 

We've had very little truth and no reconciliation from them.  Canada has done a craptonne to redress the errors of the past and take responsibility, i have YET to see the first nations do anything like that.  They pretend they were just children who were led astray and now can't possibly be responible for their own lives.  

Time to man up and admit they've handled things badly as well, admit that going to school isn't an excuse for "generational" bad behavior, admit that "Whitey" isn't their biggest problem right now and address alcoholism and rape and murder in their own communities and start building something for the future. 

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3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The indigenous lost the war and therefore their "traditions lands" mean shit.

What war? Where are the official declaration and surrender documents that cede and extinguish indigenous title to traditional lands to our forces?

Invaders needed those back in the day to support their claims against competing claims from other would be invading empires and colonial powers rampaging around the planet.

It's like claiming seabeds and other chunks of the world that remain in contention today - there's evidence to support the claim.

Simply wading ashore, planting a flag and calling it a done deal was a romantic notion even hundreds of years ago.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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