Trudeau's immigration minister Marc Miller announces that he is quintupling the number of refugees Canada is taking from Gaza from 1,000 to 5,000.

[DUI_Offender]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

 

The guy next to you on the factory floor with the turban works as least as hard as you, watches the games and wears a Leafs jersey and buys his kids shit at Christmas. The Persian guy might not eat McRibs, but eat a Big Mac at the next table. We don't brag about "melting pots" but they ALL not only melt in the end, they add something for the rest of us. If you can't or won't accept what they give, that's your loss.

 

Why are you bringing up people wearing turbans? Palestinians do not wear turbans.  Strange enough, you assume I hate all minorities since I don't want Palestinians in our country.  You are a fool, and now you are grasping at straws, trying to imply Palestinians are the same as Sikhs. You need to quit and get a day job, or learn history.

Edited June 4 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Every time you attempt to justify your beliefs you reveal your racist reasons. Just admit it.

First, eastern European isn't a race. So on the face of it what you just said is stupid.

Secondly, it is neither prejudicial nor racist to suggest that people who are raised in a culture very similar to our own will have an easier time assimilating then people who are raised in a culture very different than our own. That's just a simple truth. It's just like language, someone who speaks English fluently will be much more successful as an immigrant to Canada then someone who doesn't speak English well. That's been documented a million times over.

So what appears to be happening here is you know you're wrong and that he's right and understand why and that it's valid. But that annoys you and therefore you are trying to pull the race card in order to distract the debate and present a reason why you can just ignore what he says rather than address it.

For @blackbird To be wrong, you would have to demonstrate that the differences between our culture and Eastern European culture and the difference between our culture and Palestinian culture is about the same. You have not made that argument. Good luck with that.

Edited June 4 by CdnFox

[Venandi]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's probably what Egypt, Jordan and  Syria asked after Canada didn't want to be stuck with Jews from Europe, lots from Eastern Europe too I bet.

Since you brought them up, Egypt's concerns here are a case in point... they're right next door, they need only unlock the fence and yet they won't do it.

Any sage advice for them? 

Right now they're worried about importing extremists and having those extremists launch attacks against Israel from the Sinai. They know Israel will have to respond to the attacks and that would mean incursions on Egyptian territory... they have a lot invested in peace and don't want to jeopardize their investment.

Are you suggesting that their concerns are groundless? That their thinking is flawed? That their threat assessment is unrealistic? That it simply wouldn't happen?

Or, is their reluctance to help their "Arab brothers" simply based on racism that's supported by manufactured reasons and weak justifications as you suggest below:

9 hours ago, herbie said:

Every time you attempt to justify your beliefs you reveal your racist reasons. Just admit it.

One things for sure, somebody has this wrong... meaning BIG TIME WRONG.

Given the very real possibility that Israel will indeed block the right of return for Palestinians who leave (that's what I would do) and the fact that Egypt (or others)  would have to keep these folks in perpetuity, is their hesitancy based on mindless racism or are there some potential long term problems they're trying to avoid?

Instead of staggering all over the map and making me dizzy in the process, perhaps you could simply provide a convincing argument that suggests those Egyptian concerns are groundless. If you can do that, Canadian objections would be a whole lot easier to address.

Simply screaming racist, or asking "Oh ya, well what about this?" type questions reminds me of in-laws digging up long dead relatives during Christmas dinner. Unless you enjoy this sort of unproductive banter for its own sake you are going to have to move beyond it and address the underlying concerns. 

If Egypt has this wrong then maybe others do too, convincing them of it will now take more than shouting racist. Those days are over IMO. In fact, I think you have your work cut out for you and not just on this issue. The epidemic of madness on a litany of issues no longer resonates with people.

It seems to me that progressives have traded on the good nature and tolerance of Canadiens in a way that now has consequences for them. One of those is that name calling no longer works. If that's all ya got then get a full length mirror and shout at yourself.

Apparently I'm not alone...

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/agar-conservatives-appear-to-be-steaming-toward-victory

If you think about it, all progressives had to do was not be crazy, they couldn't do it though.  I suspect the backlash here will run deeper and last longer than some expect, even if it doesn't, I think the days of getting results through screaming and intimidation are over... they sure are with me.

 

Edited June 4 by Venandi

[I am Groot]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

We supported apartheid and all the chaos that goes with it in the past and that's why we still support it to this day.

Apparently, you don't even know what apartheid is. But you do have that paternalistic white savour complex down pat. Whatever goes wrong in the third world is always the white man's fault and never that of the brown man who lives there. 

 

Edited June 4 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

11 hours ago, herbie said:

No! No! They were ruled by Communists so therefore they must all have been sympathizers, just as Palestinians must all be terrorists.

They didn't vote them in. And polls didn't show they would re-elect them again if there was a vote.

11 hours ago, herbie said:

Nobody wants to escape a war/occupation zone, they want to corrupt your society, that's the only reason to come here.

I'm sure the Arabs want to escape a war zone. I'm equally sure they will come here with their religious clothing and religious values and religious behaviour and be amazed and disgusted gay people aren't being put to death as they ought to be and that women are all whores because they're not being properly controlled and that Jews are openly walking around alive.

11 hours ago, herbie said:

I mean you want to treat two groups of people in the same circumstances differently and claim that's not discrimination don't you?

Do you believe all groups of people are exactly the same and behave exactly the same and have exactly the same values and culture?

Because that's not the case https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fdSXb4dOjWg

 

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, Venandi said:

Are you suggesting that their concerns are groundless?

No. He's stating their concerns are racist. Its easier to stop a conversation from happening, by labeling it as such, vs exploring why those concerns are there in the first place, and whether they hold any validity based on factual evidence, or the history of displacement and consequences to the hosting country.

[Legato]

10 hours ago, herbie said:

Every time you attempt to justify your beliefs you reveal your racist reasons. Just admit it.

The guy next to you on the factory floor with the turban works as least as hard as you, watches the games and wears a Leafs jersey and buys his kids shit at Christmas. The Persian guy might not eat McRibs, but eat a Big Mac at the next table. We don't brag about "melting pots" but they ALL not only melt in the end, they add something for the rest of us. If you can't or won't accept what they give, that's your loss.

 

Anyone who can't eat Canadian Bacon should be denied.

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Legato said:

Anyone who can't eat Canadian Bacon should be denied.

No Jews.  Got it...

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Venandi said:

Since you brought them up, Egypt's concerns here are a case in point... they're right next door, they need only unlock the fence and yet they won't do it.

Any sage advice for them? 

Right now they're worried about importing extremists and having those extremists launch attacks against Israel from the Sinai. They know Israel will have to respond to the attacks and that would mean incursions on Egyptian territory... they have a lot invested in peace and don't want to jeopardize their investment.

Are you suggesting that their concerns are groundless? That their thinking is flawed? That their threat assessment is unrealistic? That it simply wouldn't happen?

I commented on how Egypt probably felt 75 years or more ago which is to say was the same as us, nobody wanted Jews. If anything current events suggest Egypt and the rest of Israel's neighbors were right to be concerned about having refugees forced on them. They didn't have a choice. We did and ours involved taking the ME's choice away.  It was an act of geopolitical vandalism.

5 hours ago, Venandi said:

Or, is their reluctance to help their "Arab brothers" simply based on racism that's supported by manufactured reasons and weak justifications as you suggest below:

I think you must mean someone else's suggestions. My suggestion remains the same, put secular leftists in charge of everything over there, otherwise get out while you can. It's a forever war that'll probably go nuclear before too long.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Apparently, you don't even know what apartheid is.

I definitely know what it means. I use South Africa's definition, and especially in the context of the way they mocked Israel for voting in the UN to apply sanctions on SA for it's apartheid.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

But you do have that paternalistic white savour complex down pat. Whatever goes wrong in the third world is always the white man's fault and never that of the brown man who lives there.

Not always and not everytime but a good part of it in this case is clearly our fault.

[Black Dog]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

They voted in Hamas and if they had the choice they'd do it again.

It's their fault.

You should tell this guy that because one of you is a real dumb motherf*cker.

21 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Do you really think a place governed by an autocratic Islamist terrorist group for the lat 18 years, which is longer than half the population has been alive has a lot of liberals in it?

 

11 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

There were already tens of thousands of Jews in those countries in the time frame you are referring to.

Additionally, Jews did not bring their wars into any country they immigrated to, like the Palestinians.

It's like the blind leading the stupid here. People who support Palestinians coming to Canada, need to stop posting, since they lack brain cells.

Have you ever met a single Palestinian person, boozehound?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

Anyone who can't eat Canadian Bacon should be denied.

Hand them a molsen Canadian bottle and if they take more than 3 seconds to figure out how to open it - BACK OF THE LINE!

50 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not always and not everytime but a good part of it in this case is clearly our fault.

It is not even remotely our fault. 

You're far too eager to take up the white man's burden. 

[Michael Hardner]

Point of reference: Bombing civilians because of their government is a War Crime.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml#:~:text=Some examples of prohibited acts,charitable purposes%2C historical monuments or

"Some examples of prohibited acts include: murder; mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; taking of hostages; intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population; intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historical monuments or hospitals; pillaging; rape, sexual slavery, forced pregnancy or any other form of sexual violence; conscripting or enlisting children under the age of 15 years into armed forces or groups or using them to participate actively in hostilities."

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Point of reference: Bombing civilians because of their government is a War Crime.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml#:~:text=Some examples of prohibited acts,charitable purposes%2C historical monuments or

"Some examples of prohibited acts include: murder; mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; taking of hostages; intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population; intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historical monuments or hospitals; pillaging; rape, sexual slavery, forced pregnancy or any other form of sexual violence; conscripting or enlisting children under the age of 15 years into armed forces or groups or using them to participate actively in hostilities."

Counterpoint -  it is not considered to be 'intentionally directing attacks against a civil population' if you attack legitimate military targets and civilians are killed as a result. 

Seeing as the Israelis are not deliberately targeting civilians but rather targeting Hamas and civilians happened to get killed as a result because Hamas is hiding behind them, they are not committing any kind of war crime.

The October 7th attacks by Hamas which deliberately targeted civilians would be a war crime. It is also a war crime to use civilian populations as human shields.

So the criminals would appear to be the forces of Gaza. The Israelis have not committed any such crimes.

Why would we invite criminals into our country?

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

They didn't have a choice.

They did, they chose no.

And given the peace deal they have I'd say it was a wise choice. It's not that nobody wants to help, the likelihood of getting (and having to keep) extremists, with all that entails is a cost too high and a bridge too far for them.

The Palestinians had a choice here too, and they made a bad one.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

We did and ours involved taking the ME's choice away.  It was an act of geopolitical vandalism.

I don't know what that means and it doesn't matter anyway. The situation is what it is and the tools you have to work with are such as they are. If wishes were places, we would be where we are not.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I think you must mean someone else's suggestions.

It was a question. Is Egypts refusal to take in refugees based on racism?

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

My suggestion remains the same, put secular leftists in charge of everything over there, otherwise get out while you can.

Well that's not going to happen... and I think you know it. Hamas is predominantly a religious movement with a religious ideology... that's a problem. If they were a political movement with political goals you could negotiate with them.

- So POOF- go full throttle left wing and secular or;

- Give up, get out of Dodge and send the refugees to Canada to prove we aren't racist.

Did I get that right? 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It's a forever war that'll probably go nuclear before too long.

And somehow that's better than removing Hamas (an entity you can't negotiated with) and allowing a new one (that you can) to emerge?  

This is why I don't usually discuss these issues... it seems our only choices are secular leftists or nuclear war. Neither strikes me as serious or worthy of debate so I'll yield the floor to others willing to engage the proposed options.

 

Edited June 4 by Venandi

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Point of reference: Bombing civilians because of their government is a War Crime.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml#:~:text=Some examples of prohibited acts,charitable purposes%2C historical monuments or

"Some examples of prohibited acts include: murder; mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; taking of hostages; intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population; intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historical monuments or hospitals; pillaging; rape, sexual slavery, forced pregnancy or any other form of sexual violence; conscripting or enlisting children under the age of 15 years into armed forces or groups or using them to participate actively in hostilities."

Point of reference: ^that^ was a completely misleading pile of horseshit from a serial liar.

No civilians in Gaza are "being bombed because of their government". Not even one.  

Those people are propaganda meat shields for Hamas terrorists: they are forced to stay behind and die for photo ops, andTHAT'S what's illegal. 

You're comparing those people to families trying to flee across the vast expanses of the Russian front but being mowed down by the rapidly advancing Nazi war machine... that's a total perversion of what's going on... The Gazans have been 1 day's walk from the Egyptian border for all 210 days of this war. They could have all fled 209 days ago and every single one of them would be alive right now. They can't though, because Hamas needs their corpses for photo ops.

Just imagine a young couple trying to get their family out, but they're basically told: "Sorry, we need your corpses for a photo op."

[Legato]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

No Jews.  Got it...

Woosh.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

They did, they chose no.

And so we forced our choice on them, we even helped engineer the process of apartheid that was employed against them.

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

I don't know what that means

We made the ME regions choice for it. They got the Jews we didn't want.

What do you think we'd call it or do if the UN had forced us to accept Europe's Jewish refugees?

[herbie]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not every foreign culture or religion fits into Canadian society.  What you claim is false

and you shall be the Judge, right?

14 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

you assume I hate all minorities since I don't want Palestinians in our country.

So you only hate Palestinians and that doesn't make you racist. Only people that hate more than one group are racists.

Listen to them oink, squeal and deny.... in their starched white shirts

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I definitely know what it means. I use South Africa's definition, and especially in the context of the way they mocked Israel for voting in the UN to apply sanctions on SA for it's apartheid.

Israeli Arabs and Muslims have all the same rights as Israeli Jews.

Did Black South Africans get to vote? Did they sit in the legislature? 

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Point of reference: Bombing civilians because of their government is a War Crime.
 

The Israelis have taken as much care as possible to avoid civilian casualties, far more than any other country has in any previous war. There is no indication or evidence they are deliberately targeting civilians except the screeching of the Left who are hand in hand with the Jew and gay-hating Islamists.

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not always and not everytime but a good part of it in this case is clearly our fault.

Maybe our ancestors didn't quite understand the degree of religious fanaticism and hatred so common in the Arab world. Or their belief that once a plot of land is ruled by Muslims it must forever after be ruled by Muslims or Allah is offended and there must be war until the offending religious group are eradicated. 

Perhaps they should have. That whole area used to be Christian, after all, until the Muslims showed up and butchered many of them, forced most of the rest out or converted them by the sword. Is that what you mean? That there's so much hatred and violence in Islam that the West should have realized that was no place to put Jews?

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I commented on how Egypt probably felt 75 years or more ago which is to say was the same as us, nobody wanted Jews. If anything current events suggest Egypt and the rest of Israel's neighbors were right to be concerned about having refugees forced on them. They didn't have a choice. We did and ours involved taking the ME's choice away.  It was an act of geopolitical vandalism.

Nothing Israel has done has harmed Egypt except insofar as Egypt making war on Israel and failing. Repeatedly. If the Arabs in the region hadn't been so relentless in hating and despising Jews that little country could have had a wonderfully beneficial effect on the barbarism and backwardness of the surrounding states. Not to mention helping to uplift their economies.

[DUI_Offender]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

First, eastern European isn't a race. So on the face of it what you just said is stupid.

Secondly, it is neither prejudicial nor racist to suggest that people who are raised in a culture very similar to our own will have an easier time assimilating then people who are raised in a culture very different than our own. That's just a simple truth. It's just like language, someone who speaks English fluently will be much more successful as an immigrant to Canada then someone who doesn't speak English well. That's been documented a million times over.

So what appears to be happening here is you know you're wrong and that he's right and understand why and that it's valid. But that annoys you and therefore you are trying to pull the race card in order to distract the debate and present a reason why you can just ignore what he says rather than address it.

For @blackbird To be wrong, you would have to demonstrate that the differences between our culture and Eastern European culture and the difference between our culture and Palestinian culture is about the same. You have not made that argument. Good luck with that.

 

^ Comment of the day.