Justin Trudeau, please fund Bibles in every home

[West]

Its the only path forward for our nation

[August1991]

3 hours ago, West said:

Its the only path forward for our nation

The Gideons put Bibles in all our hotel rooms. No objection.

Quick (Easter) question: Which is more important, Old or New Testament?

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

The Gideons put Bibles in all our hotel rooms. No objection.

Quick (Easter) question: Which is more important, Old or New Testament?

No testament

[Nationalist]

The Bibles may only be man's interpretation but, it lays the foudations for stable, productive society. It is thus, a good message for people. 

Unless...what you see going on now is good?

[ExFlyer]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

The Bibles may only be man's interpretation but, it lays the foudations for stable, productive society. It is thus, a good message for people. 

Unless...what you see going on now is good?

Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL

[Nationalist]

@ExFlyer

Is that somehow funny? Do tell.

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL

I see. So the messages in the Bibles are...not important?

Is that what you're trying to say?

[ExFlyer]

14 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

@ExFlyer

1. Is that somehow funny? Do tell.

2. I see. So the messages in the Bibles are...not important?

3. s that what you're trying to say?

Edited to answer your edits:

1.Yes.

As I said, "Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL " so the book is really insignificant. 

It does not, in any way "lays the foundations for stable, productive society. " except for perhaps christians and they don't seem to abide by it anyway.

2. Correct, not important at all. Religion is not even a little bit important to me.

3. Yes.

Edited April 1 by ExFlyer

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Yes.

As I said, "Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL " so the book is really insignificant. 

It does not, in any way "lays the foundations for stable, productive society. " except for perhaps christians and they don't seem to abide by it anyway.

Ok well...

1. The Bibles are far from insignificant. That you would even attempt that is ridiculous. 

2. It most certainly does lay said foundations. But if you're one who promotes broken, fatherless families, lack of respect and honor...if you celebrate chaos and social rot...then I guess the messages in the Bibles, along with any number of books with similar messaging, would require your efforts to belittle them.

[ExFlyer]

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ok well...

1. The Bibles are far from insignificant. That you would even attempt that is ridiculous. 

2. It most certainly does lay said foundations. But if you're one who promotes broken, fatherless families, lack of respect and honor...if you celebrate chaos and social rot...then I guess the messages in the Bibles, along with any number of books with similar messaging, would require your efforts to belittle them.

1. Why? I a not religious so, the bible is insignificant for me.

2. The bible lays no foundation to anything except to some christians. And then the christians do not follow it anyway. I promote nothing and your accusations just prove my point that christians do not follow their own religion LOL

Why is it so important to you that I see your "christian" way?? I told you in the beginning I am not religious. Are you trying to convert me?   Wars in history are basically religious with a few exceptions of enveloping land. Is your "book" against war or promote war in defence of christianity?

[Michael Hardner]

44 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 It does not, in any way "lays the foundations for stable, productive society. " except for perhaps christians and they don't seem to abide by it anyway.

I would argue that it very much does, however said foundations were laid in Mesopotamia with the simultaneous development of writing, accounting, a legal system, and the establishment of the elite class.  Modifications happened over time, and maybe if people are calling for fundamental changes then we could take the opportunity to ask some key questions:

-What is working?
-What isn't?
-What elements of our system should we keep and what should we discard?
-Who should lead the discussion, who should participate, where should it happen, how should we discuss and move to action?

I'll bet a lot of people *think* that something is wrong, but to me it's because the lens we look through to see our "societies" is different than it was, and you can see flaws and cracks - superficial or not - more easily.

WAKE (wild-assed key examples):

@eyeball had this idea once to monitor politicians more closely.  I thought his idea of mounting a camera on the skull of each MP was a little much, but maybe just publishing their bank transactions could do the trick...

Edited April 1 by Michael Hardner

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would argue that it very much does, however said foundations were laid in Mesopotamia with the simultaneous development of writing, accounting, a legal system, and the establishment of the elite class.  Modifications happened over time, and maybe if people are calling for fundamental changes then we could take the opportunity to ask some key questions:

-What is working?
-What isn't?
-What elements of our system should we keep and what should we discard?
-Who should lead the discussion, who should participate, where should it happen, how should we discuss and move to action?

I'll bet a lot of people *think* that something is wrong, but to me it's because the lens we look through to see our "societies" is different than it was, and you can see flaws and cracks - superficial or not - more easily.

@eyeball had this idea once to monitor politicians more closely.  I thought his idea of mounting a camera on the skull of each MP was a little much, but maybe just publishing their bank transactions could do the trick...

OK, your opinion, not mine.Is that OK?

Mesopotamians ? What do they have to do with the bibke? "Mesopotamian religion was polytheistic, with followers worshipping several main gods and thousands of minor gods. The three main gods were Ea (Sumerian: Enki), the god of wisdom and magic, Anu (Sumerian: An), the sky god, and Enlil (Ellil), the god of earth, storms and agriculture and the controller of fates"

I care not who leads or continues this discussion. I am not religious. If the bible has merit, so does the Koran, Vedas, Tripitakas or Torah. Which one is more important than the other? Considering christianity is only 30% of the worlds religion, why do you think the bible is THE book we should follow?

Politics, religion and food, the most debated subjects and we all have opinions on each. What is working and what is not working is also an opinion and we all have different take on them. We are allowed and being shit upon or criticized or demeaned for those opinions seems unchristian to me LOL

Once again, I am not religious, I care not about the bible and do not think it is the "rule" book for us all.

[West]

57 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Edited to answer your edits:

1.Yes.

As I said, "Considering only 30% of the world is christian, the bible is just another book on the rack LOL " so the book is really insignificant. 

It does not, in any way "lays the foundations for stable, productive society. " except for perhaps christians and they don't seem to abide by it anyway.

2. Correct, not important at all. Religion is not even a little bit important to me.

3. Yes.

Yes it's true that some professing the Christian faith may not adhere fully to the Good Book. It's unfortunately like a diabetic not adhering to doctors orders. 

[ExFlyer]

28 minutes ago, West said:

Yes it's true that some professing the Christian faith may not adhere fully to the Good Book. It's unfortunately like a diabetic not adhering to doctors orders. 

Are you implying that not following the bible is akin to doing something that threatens your life?

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Are you implying that not following the bible is akin to doing something that threatens your life?

When people take hard drugs they are doing something that threatens their life.

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

When people take hard drugs they are doing something that threatens their life.

Yes and???

If they do not follow the bible does that threaten your life?? The answer is a big NO.

[blackbird]

Western society was historically Judeo-Christian which has it basis in the Bible.  The development into democratic countries with Parliaments and the adoption of human rights is something that is attributable to the Bible and Judeo-Christian civilization.  

This did not happen in eastern civilization.  There are many dictatorships and a lack of human rights in other parts of the world or non-Judeo-Christian countries.  I think the connection of the west to the Bible has had an affect that other parts of the world never had.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. OK, your opinion, not mine.Is that OK?

2. Mesopotamians ? What do they have to do with the bibke? "Mesopotamian religion was polytheistic, with followers worshipping several main gods and thousands of minor gods. The three main gods were Ea (Sumerian: Enki), the god of wisdom and magic, Anu (Sumerian: An), the sky god, and Enlil (Ellil), the god of earth, storms and agriculture and the controller of fates"

3. I care not who leads or continues this discussion. I am not religious. If the bible has merit, so does the Koran, Vedas, Tripitakas or Torah. Which one is more important than the other? Considering christianity is only 30% of the worlds religion, why do you think the bible is THE book we should follow?

4. Politics, religion and food, the most debated subjects and we all have opinions on each. What is working and what is not working is also an opinion and we all have different take on them. We are allowed and being shit upon or criticized or demeaned for those opinions seems unchristian to me LOL  Once again, I am not religious, I care not about the bible and do not think it is the "rule" book for us all.

1. Opinions are always 'ok' 
2. The fantasy aspect of the holy books was, and has always been, inconsequential to the social value of religions.
3. You misunderstand me.  I'm simply saying that the Bible, and more importantly its antecedent books and practices, were instrumental and necessary elements in the foundation of a civilized society and we should consider that.  I'm not saying that in the social roadmap of today there's value to deferring to "the" bible or any holy book.
4. If you want to build a new society, it's a good idea to know our roots.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

1. Why? I a not religious so, the bible is insignificant for me.

2. The bible lays no foundation to anything except to some christians. And then the christians do not follow it anyway. I promote nothing and your accusations just prove my point that christians do not follow their own religion LOL

Why is it so important to you that I see your "christian" way?? I told you in the beginning I am not religious. Are you trying to convert me?   Wars in history are basically religious with a few exceptions of enveloping land. Is your "book" against war or promote war in defence of christianity?

Well I remember your perspectives late in the pandemic. You’re basically a closet fascist, as far as I can tell.  God and religion are bulwarks against the kind of extreme statism you support.

You take for granted the conditions that allow you to thrive and you fail to see the causes that gave rise to them.  Basically you think anything goes morally as long as the state supports it, even if that meant that your liberty was removed.  You don’t see any higher authority than the state.

Who or what do you think should guide young people?  Or do you think that young people don’t need guides?  Or are you of the secular fascist ideology, thinking that anything non-religious is by definition good, so our young should be guided by LGBTQ2S+ and radical feminists who hate “the patriarchy” or race obsessed activists who hate the “settler colonialists”?

Take away people’s appeal to a higher authority than the state and all you will get is a government pretending to know how everyone should live, reducing parental rights while giving more power to the state, and pushing the population into servitude in order to meet puritanical net zero and quasi-Marxist goals for equality of outcome. Individual freedom will be sacrificed to meet state goals for the hive-society, much as happens in China. I won’t even get into the implications for fertility and civilizational suicide.

What do soul-less individuals matter in this cultural Marxist world view?  Only the collective matters and “saving the planet”, whatever that means.  I can promise it’s dystopian.

 

Edited April 1 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

@eyeball had this idea once to monitor politicians more closely.  I thought his idea of mounting a camera on the skull of each MP was a little much, but maybe just publishing their bank transactions could do the trick...

This would certainly be in keeping with the Christian value of knowing God is always watching.

 

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Western society was historically Judeo-Christian which has it basis in the Bible.  The development into democratic countries with Parliaments and the adoption of human rights is something that is attributable to the Bible and Judeo-Christian civilization.  

This did not happen in eastern civilization.  There are many dictatorships and a lack of human rights in other parts of the world or non-Judeo-Christian countries.  I think the connection of the west to the Bible has had an affect that other parts of the world never had.

Oh stop LOL

You are aware that until mid to end 1800's (and even later in the case of Spain and Italy) Europe was a world of fiefdoms, kings, queens and dictators?

Are you aware that the church was the eminent dictator of most of Europe? Every king, queen, knight, serf and soldier lived and died within the embrace of the Catholic faith. The inquisition is a perfect example of vile religious domination.

[West]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Western society was historically Judeo-Christian which has it basis in the Bible.  The development into democratic countries with Parliaments and the adoption of human rights is something that is attributable to the Bible and Judeo-Christian civilization.  

This did not happen in eastern civilization.  There are many dictatorships and a lack of human rights in other parts of the world or non-Judeo-Christian countries.  I think the connection of the west to the Bible has had an affect that other parts of the world never had.

You see this progression in the Good Book of sacrifice. 

-for oneself, for one nation, for one world

Now we are called to present ourselves as a living sacrifice. True religion caring for the widow and the orphan. 

 

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well I remember your perspectives late in the pandemic. You’re basically a closet fascist, as far as I can tell.  God and religion are bulwarks against the kind of extreme statism you support.

You take for granted the conditions that allow you to thrive and you fail to see the causes that gave rise to them.  Basically you think anything goes morally as long as the state supports it, even if that meant that your liberty was removed.  You don’t see any higher authority than the state.

Who or what do you think should guide young people?  Or do you think that young people don’t need guides?  Or are you of the secular fascist ideology, thinking that anything non-religious is by definition good, so our young should be guided by LGBTQ2S+ and radical feminists who hate “the patriarchy” or race obsessed activists who hate the “settler colonialists”?

Take away people’s appeal to a higher authority than the state and all you will get is a government pretending to know how everyone should live, reducing parental rights while giving more power to the state, and pushing the population into servitude in order to meet puritanical net zero and quasi-Marxist goals for equality of outcome. Individual freedom will be sacrificed to meet state goals for the hive-society, much as happens in China.

What do soul-less individuals matter in this cultural Marxist world view?  Only the collective matters and “saving the planet”, whatever that means.  I can promise it’s dystopian.

 

Seriously?? I am being accused of fascism because I do not see things your way??? Seems to me you define fascism.

I take nothing for granted. I am very much a capitalist. You get what you earn.

Who is taking anything away from anyone? I do not have a religion and do not care about it. I take nothing from you and why are you concerned about my thought and opinions on religion? Are you trying to convert me? Like the guys at the door with the watchtower pamphlet??

Who is a "soul-less individual"?  Are all non christians "soul less"? Pretty unchiristian of you LOL

 

 

Edited April 1 by ExFlyer

[West]

21 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yes and???

If they do not follow the bible does that threaten your life?? The answer is a big NO.

Certainly living in sin is detrimental to your health. 

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, West said:

Certainly living in sin is detrimental to your health. 

What is "living in sin"? 

Boinking a hooker? Smoking a joint? Or not going to church on sundays? Or just going to church on good friday and easter sunday and being a hypocrite? 

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh stop LOL

You are aware that until mid to end 1800's (and even later in the case of Spain and Italy) Europe was a world of fiefdoms, kings, queens and dictators?

Are you aware that the church was the eminent dictator of most of Europe? Every king, queen, knight, serf and soldier lived and died within the embrace of the Catholic faith. The inquisition is a perfect example of vile religious domination.

You fail to understand the alternatives.  You don’t see that it was through the Christianization of the Roman Empire that slavery lessened, arbitrary rule and oppression were curtailed, and checks on the authority of Caesar or the King were put in place.  These advances were the logical conclusions of a better moral framework.

The first universities were ecclesiastical.  The renaissance was a rebirth of the spirit of the elevation of opportunity. The first modern democratic jurisdictions were the Italian merchant city-states that came out of this fertile ground.

The missionaries and “colonizers” of North America exchanged and advanced technology.  Even the Reformation that brought us the Protestant Work Ethic that brought us the US, Canada, and much of what we value about the modern nation state, grew out of an attempt to find the true unmediated message of Christ, who was following in a long line of histories in the Old Testament and prior.

Erase or remove those histories or belittle their importance and see what results.  The Bible is the most important book in Western culture, both from a religious and literary perspective.  Even taken as fiction, its stories reveal powerful and important truths about human nature and the world.  

Edited April 1 by Zeitgeist