B.C. gangs getting more access to firearms — including deadly automatics, expert says (even making their own)

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

100 % agree 12 gauge is the best home defense weapon available, it has limited range, won't penetrate most walls, and you don't have to be that accurate, point and shoot, makes lots of noise, which grabs everyone's attention.. drawbacks are reloading which takes some time when dealing with a pump action, ...there are shotguns out there with magazines if there was more than one intruder... or you wanted to make sure that one guy was not around to hold a grudge...

I was just looking at a 12 inch barrel mag fed pump action - comes with 20 or 30 round drum mags available.  Hehehehehehe.   Non restricted. It's one of those turkish ones but i'm here to tell you those turkish shotguns are huge value for the buck. They're all designed by the guys who work on benelli and baretta shotguns and they're made fantastically well for the money and work great, i own several.

But still, most 12 - 14 inch barrel shotguns still hold 5 rounds.  if there's more than 5 bad guys breaking into your house I'd be tempted to say you should be considering your lifestyle choices and neigbhourhood before you worry about your firearm

 

[Nationalist]

18 hours ago, CdnFox said:

frankly for about a million reasons i'll take a shorter shotgun over a pistol any day of the week for self defense. Even a little carbine shooting 9 mm or 40. 

I want both but will start with the rifle license.

[Nationalist]

17 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Thanks, I thought you were referring to a "high powered pellet revolver" . . .

Now why would I need a license for that?

[Nefarious Banana]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Now why would I need a license for that?

Now that's what I was wondering . . . 

Guessing you're not really a firearm guy . . . yet?

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I want both but will start with the rifle license.

Non restricted license  

And you can stil own mares legs in canada with a non restricted license. A ranch hand is a levergun with a short barrel and "sawed off"  buttstock- I own both of these and they're basically an overgrown pistol but non restricted

 

And then there's this - the dominion arms grizzlie shotgun with an 8.5 inch barrel. The thing is so short it's practically pocket size I don't own one right now but i've handled them lots and they are as easy to one hand control as a pistol for the most part but in 12 gauge   you can get those Aguila mini slugs and fit about 6 in the mag and it's very light recoil.

Some people are more recoil sensitive and for those people other options might be better. The kel-tec sub 2000 is very small and comes in 9mm and is non restricted. (5 round mags tho - it's a semi auto).

Lots of excellent small very portable guns available with your pal these days.

 

[Nefarious Banana]

Rifled barrel, sights, and slugs . . . . and yes, there's a slight recoil.

[blackbird]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:40 AM, cannuck said:

Instead of disarming the criminals we disarm their victims.

BTW: I have as yet to see ANY political party do diddly squat about addressing any real problems when in power

There's another reason why we don't have capital punishment for murderers.  Canadians don't like real justice and don't think the worst mass murderers or serial killers should face the death penalty.  That is all part of the soft-on-crime mentality which has been brainwashed into society from infancy.  Criminals love it.  They can pretty well do what they feel like and shot at will knowing theymay not even get caught and if they do, the sentence will be ten or fifteen years for murder and be released on parole after half a sentence.  They know if they do what the gang tells them they might make hundreds of thousands in cash and never get caught shooting people.  They are willing to take the chance of being shot by other gang members because the money is easy picking and there is no capital punishment anyway if they get caught. 

Edited March 9 by blackbird

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canadians don't like real justice

Sure we do, we're just not big on vengeance.

[blackbird]

There's another reason why we don't have capital punishment for murderers.  Canadians don't like real justice and don't think the worst mass murderers or serial killers should face the death penalty.  That is all part of the soft-on-crime mentality which has been brainwashed into society from infancy.  Criminals love it.  Many Canadians fear walking the streets or going out of their homes. 

Criminals can pretty well do what they feel like and shot at will knowing they may not even get caught and if they do, the sentence will be ten or fifteen years for murder and be released on parole after half a sentence.  They know if they do what the gang tells them they might make hundreds of thousands in cash and never get caught shooting people.  They are willing to take the chance of being shot by other gang members because the money is easy picking and there is no capital punishment anyway if they get caught. 

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure we do, we're just not big on vengeance.

Sadly many Canadians like yourself don't have a clue about justice.  You think punishment is vengeance because of your lifetime of left wing soft-on-crime brainwashing.  Criminals think about people like you and don't have to worry when they shot other people or commit crimes.  They know there are lots like you who will be easy on them.  Funny how people change their thinking when a loved one gets killed by a criminal.  They are suddenly not so soft on crime.

People like you are always soft-on-crime and call punishment vengeance as long as the victims are somebody else in the country and it doesn't directly affect them.  It's all part of the I'm ok and nuts to everyone else attitude.

Edited March 9 by blackbird

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Sadly many Canadians like yourself don't have a clue about justice.  You think punishment is vengeance because of your lifetime of left wing soft-on-crime brainwashing. 

Well if I was Jesus you know what I would do?

I'd snap my fingers so everyone would be on the same page.

[Army Guy]

31 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure we do, we're just not big on vengeance.

Ya you are, tell me you would not defend your family from intruders with whatever it took...including taking a life...

[Army Guy]

This happened not far from where i live, something to think about before using a firearm to defend yourself...Note the man no longer has hios firearms...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/burton-man-charged-for-confronting-prowlers-1.916277

Edited March 9 by Army Guy

[blackbird]

Many liberal and left oriented Canadians are soft-on-crime because they think criminality is society's fault, not the criminal's. That is one of the main reasons we don't have capital punishment for murder.  Criminals and gangs know this.

"Wokeness in criminal justice? Safe — in Jivani’s view, individual choice plays a role in criminality, as does the presence of father figures and male role models. This is a far cry from the progressive view, which tends to blame crime on the system: systemic racism and other systemic disadvantages being understood as the foundation of crime. Because it doesn’t hold individuals responsible for their actions, the current government has taken a soft-on-crime approach to punishment that coincides with the philosophy of equity."

NP View: Jamil Jivani clears the way for Conservatives to embrace the culture war (msn.com)

Edited March 9 by blackbird

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Ya you are, tell me you would not defend your family from intruders with whatever it took...including taking a life...

Sure. But I also understand that the law isn't going to tolerate me taking that life in vengeance after I'm done with the defending part. Recall you reiterated that yourself just the other day.

[Legato]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Non restricted license  

And you can stil own mares legs in canada with a non restricted license. A ranch hand is a levergun with a short barrel and "sawed off"  buttstock- I own both of these and they're basically an overgrown pistol but non restricted

 

And then there's this - the dominion arms grizzlie shotgun with an 8.5 inch barrel. The thing is so short it's practically pocket size I don't own one right now but i've handled them lots and they are as easy to one hand control as a pistol for the most part but in 12 gauge   you can get those Aguila mini slugs and fit about 6 in the mag and it's very light recoil.

Some people are more recoil sensitive and for those people other options might be better. The kel-tec sub 2000 is very small and comes in 9mm and is non restricted. (5 round mags tho - it's a semi auto).

Lots of excellent small very portable guns available with your pal these days.

 

My wife was pretty good at trap, skeet and english sporting. She learned with a Lanber Armas O/U 12g. After a couple of years she got herself a Beretta 686 and had it fitted. Her dad lived next door to a gunsmith so the fitting was free.

We still have the Lanber Sporter. Sold the Berretta, she doesn't shoot any more, for sport that is. LoL

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

This happened not far from where i live, something to think about before using a firearm to defend yourself...Note the man no longer has hios firearms...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/burton-man-charged-for-confronting-prowlers-1.916277

Just found a website that may clarify the legality in Canada.  

"

The Criminal Code of Canada does not state that Canadians do not have the right to use a gun for self protection.  In fact, Section 34 clearly defines that Canadians have every right to act reasonably to protect themselves, their family, their property and to protect other people,  against a threat.  

Section 2(b) discusses other options that may be available.  Under this heading, it implies that non-violent options should be explored first and that calling 911 would be considered a reasonable first step if the situation allows.  It also discusses whether or not the assailant has a weapon as that would determine reasonability in a response to a threat.    The key word in all of this is “reasonable”.  The criminal code does not grant carte blanche use of firearms but it certainly does not forbid reasonable use in a self protection capacity. "

The right to self defence in Canada (beyondthenarrative.ca)

The problem for this man was he took his firearm outside to deal with the suspects.  That would seem to weaken his chances of claiming self-defence.  So he lost his firearms.  I don't know if there is a process he could follow to get them back.  Maybe.  

If I interpret this explanation correctly, if someone is stealing your vehicle, you have no right to go after them with a gun since you personally are not threatened.  It would appear that there is no right to use a gun to protect private property in Canada.  The laws may be different for security guards protecting banks and other property.

If an armed person breaks into your home with a gun or knife and you or your family feel seriously threatened, that would be a special circumstance but each case has to be examined on its own.  You may be required to warn the intruder to give him an opportunity to back away, leave immediately, or drop his weapon.  If he has a gun drawn, that may be a special circumstance where you don't have time to warn him.  But each case may be different.

Edited March 9 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

My wife was pretty good at trap, skeet and english sporting. She learned with a Lanber Armas O/U 12g. After a couple of years she got herself a Beretta 686 and had it fitted. Her dad lived next door to a gunsmith so the fitting was free.

We still have the Lanber Sporter. Sold the Berretta, she doesn't shoot any more, for sport that is. LoL

Fak -  a silver pigeon!  I've got a few over unders but nothing that nice. I've shot a few berettas - I don't know what it is but those italians and the turks know how to make a shotgun like no others.

There've been a few times i've owned or shot some of the 'cheap' turkish guns that dealers bring in and slap their own labels on and i know for certain that they're a beretta subtrade - you can just tell from the design and work.  I have a weatherby pa-459 threat response and you can just tell the folks who work for beretta and benelli had a hand in it somewhere along the line.

[cannuck]

While I don't particularly think we need to be armed for protection against government the way Americans are, I can not help but notice in our Wyoming business we have property scattered all over in remote places that would be impossible to "make secure" from theft and vandalism.  Yet over the last 40 years I can only remember a couple incidents of minor theft ever occurring.  One can not help but notice that EVERY pickup has a rifle or two in the back window, and a large portion of the population carries handguns.  Would be thieves know this and realize that people seriously believe in protecting their families, homes, properties and neighbours.  

I am always amused that most people think incarceration is some kind of punishment for criminals.  I have learned that there are 3 kinds of people in jail: those who didn't think that what they were doing was criminal; those who feel safer "inside" (not a big percentage, but a definite group); and those who consider their time inside part of their career.  This is where they broaden the network of criminal associates and learn many of the skills of the trade.  That is why there needs to be some kind of consequence in the unlikely event you are ever caught being a criminal in this country - not rewarded by career advancement.  The risk of a bullet in the brain from your victims can be an effective deterrent.

[Nationalist]

22 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Now that's what I was wondering . . . 

Guessing you're not really a firearm guy . . . yet?

Not really. Had a 22 on the farm when I was a kid. My brother and I used it to pop gophers...

[Nationalist]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Non restricted license  

And you can stil own mares legs in canada with a non restricted license. A ranch hand is a levergun with a short barrel and "sawed off"  buttstock- I own both of these and they're basically an overgrown pistol but non restricted

 

And then there's this - the dominion arms grizzlie shotgun with an 8.5 inch barrel. The thing is so short it's practically pocket size I don't own one right now but i've handled them lots and they are as easy to one hand control as a pistol for the most part but in 12 gauge   you can get those Aguila mini slugs and fit about 6 in the mag and it's very light recoil.

Some people are more recoil sensitive and for those people other options might be better. The kel-tec sub 2000 is very small and comes in 9mm and is non restricted. (5 round mags tho - it's a semi auto).

Lots of excellent small very portable guns available with your pal these days.

 

Nice. Thanks. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

[ironstone]

The right to defend one's home with firearms in Canada isn't the same as in the US. There was a case of a firearms instructor who woke up at night to discover his house was being firebombed. He fired a couple of warning shots in the air to scare them off, and the rest of the story is a nightmare. The homeowner was the one that was treated like a criminal and put through the ringer.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-acquitted-of-firing-warning-shots-at-group-who-firebombed-home-1.1102114

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Nice. Thanks. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

Well that's at least half the fun of firearms - shooting them is awesome but there's so much more, like customizing the sighting and the furniture, playing around with different ammo or making your own if you like, different styles and types of guns and of course different things to shoot at, from reactionary targets that blow up to moving targets like skeet or spinning wheels or games like duelling trees.  I don't remember which province you live in but here in bc we can shoot in the woods in most areas and i can drive up the hill here and be shooting in 5 minutes. Great fun.  And women tend to be better at it than men to be honest so it's a sport you can really enjoy with the wife and she should be able to go toe to toe with you competing.

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

  And women tend to be better at it than men to be honest so it's a sport you can really enjoy with the wife and she should be able to go toe to toe with you competing.

In my early years raised on military bases, my Father made it clear that I did not get access to weapons until being properly trained.  One of his closest friends happened an ex BEI expeditionary forces Sgt who was a multi-year Bisley competitor (and I believe winner).  Said fellow also had 3 girls - two a bit older than myself and one my age (IIRC about 10 at the time).  Each one of those girls could crack off 98-100 scores all day long and sure put the little boys (and more than a few men) in their place.

[blackbird]

On 3/8/2024 at 3:57 AM, Venandi said:

Nothing to do with spine, it's a simple matter of trust.

Actually it's the complete absence of it. As it stands now, I don't trust these creatures to fill pot holes in front of my house.

Whilst typing the above I was trying to think of something that the Liberals have gotten right, some concrete action I could agree with, something that made sense to me, anything that might cause me to say "ya, good idea, that might work."

I'd even settle for a decision or action that showcased honour, integrity or courage, maybe even all three at the same time... something I might respect even if I didn't agree with it.

I got nothing... other than the very question posed by JT himself, "should we tolerate these people?"

I don't trust Liberals either, but that has nothing to do with capital punishment.  They would have nothing to do with it.  Hopefully they will be gone soon.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, cannuck said:

In my early years raised on military bases, my Father made it clear that I did not get access to weapons until being properly trained.  One of his closest friends happened an ex BEI expeditionary forces Sgt who was a multi-year Bisley competitor (and I believe winner).  Said fellow also had 3 girls - two a bit older than myself and one my age (IIRC about 10 at the time).  Each one of those girls could crack off 98-100 scores all day long and sure put the little boys (and more than a few men) in their place.

I have no doubt.  Seen the same sort of thing many times. Very annoying