Army Guy Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 14 hours ago, Videospirit said: We only have one Planet we can live on, we can't let Russia ruin everything for everyone else. Sticking your head in the sand and going "It's not my problem" is unacceptable because mankind has too much military power. We need to enforce norms to prevent humanity from destroying itself. Not that you actually stick your head in the sand and ignore the issue, you want Russia to win which is so much worse. Do you desire the destruction of life on earth that much? This war isn't about whether or not Russia will conquer Ukraine, it's about whether the norms put in place to prevent the end of the world after world war 2 will survive. But you don't give a shit about the sacrifices made in world war 2 or any of the soldiers who have died since than to protect peace in the world, you just want to see Russia win because you find their success thrilling. You just posted to me that it is "not" NATO responsibility to help Ukraine...now your talking about the destruction of the planet if Russia is not stopped, your all over the place on this topic.........WHO is going to stop Russia is the question Ukraine ? with out help from NATO...you should be asking why is NATO not doing more , i mean according to you the entire planet is being threaten right...did i read that right ? The first and foremost question should be who is going to hold those norms to account....you can't place all that responsibility with Ukraine , i mean it is one of the reasons NATO was put together to stop Russia aggression was it not...and here we have a clear example of that and NATO is slow rolling it's response... Nobody really gives a rats ass at what our nations soldier sacrifice during any conflict, except the soldiers themselves... i mean put that into perspective, we have just recently announced a national holiday to remember our fallen comrades...NOV 11 was not a national holiday in some provinces if you wanted to attend you had to take a holiday, just recently did they approve it a national holiday, and still, most do not attend any ceremony but use it as just another day off... So using the comment that somebody gives not honor our soldiers sacrifices is a moot point when most Canadians don't give a shit...for those that do come out thank you ....one day out of the year, is not much to ask, considering the LGBTQ community has more than 100 days marked on the calendar to commemorate their cause, it puts into perspective where we place the sacrifices of our soldiers, don't use it as some supreme deed when That's not how canada thinks about it...we can't even treat our vets humanely, let alone our current serving soldiers... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 On 10/11/2024 at 9:01 AM, DUI_Offender said: Do you not know that Canada relies on NATO, and is an original member? Do you not know that Russia does not have the best interests of the West in mind, and is our historical enemy? What do you get out of selling out your country? You and that Quisling Army dude deserve each other. You two can go to Russia, if you love it so much. More lies..... Most Canadians don't care about NATO, and it shows in the results, NATO does not rely on Canada for anything, what do we have to offer NATO at this point....Original member do you think today that fact means anything to the other members of NATO...after failing to meet agreed and signed on to policies to meet the 2 % mark....then finally After agreeing to spend more in the future, which according to the polls is a liberal dream they won't be be in power after 2025..... under this liberal government military budget is being reduced until 2025.... ya go figure... Canada does not care about the best interests of the west, or it would be taking those agreements to heart... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
blackbird Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 The Ukraine and NATO will not be backing down. This will continue to be a war of attrition. No real benefit for Russia either. I think Putin must be paying a political price for this. Many lives being wasted by Russia for nothing. Quote
Videospirit Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: We will see what happens in the US election in the coming weeks... Putin is not going to give back any land, doing so will end him with russian citizens demanding he talk a walk in the wood.......he has lost way to much for it to be all for nothing....Ukraine does not have the men or resources to continue long term...NATO is not living up to it's promises, Ukraine is having major issues with recruitment and training...and the Kursk operation is turning out to be a major craw on manpower and equipment and not producing the long term results Ukraine wanted. ... https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/22/ukraine-war-ethics-morality-murky/ That's a pretty shitty article, acts like this war isn't completely unprecedented since world war 2. If nothing else, we could drag the war out until Putin dies or becomes so infirm as to be incapable of continuing in office so peace can be possible with his successor. We could ramp up support for Ukraine's foreign legion if it starts struggling to obtain manpower. Russia's economy is suffering as well, other than its military industrial complex, agriculture, and energy exports everything else is shrinking and it's economy is in a full out recession, the longer this war continues the weaker Russia's economy will become. As long as Ukraine is willing to continue resisting we have no reason not to support that will. Quote
Videospirit Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: You just posted to me that it is "not" NATO responsibility to help Ukraine...now your talking about the destruction of the planet if Russia is not stopped, your all over the place on this topic.........WHO is going to stop Russia is the question Ukraine ? with out help from NATO...you should be asking why is NATO not doing more , i mean according to you the entire planet is being threaten right...did i read that right ? The first and foremost question should be who is going to hold those norms to account....you can't place all that responsibility with Ukraine , i mean it is one of the reasons NATO was put together to stop Russia aggression was it not...and here we have a clear example of that and NATO is slow rolling it's response... Nobody really gives a rats ass at what our nations soldier sacrifice during any conflict, except the soldiers themselves... i mean put that into perspective, we have just recently announced a national holiday to remember our fallen comrades...NOV 11 was not a national holiday in some provinces if you wanted to attend you had to take a holiday, just recently did they approve it a national holiday, and still, most do not attend any ceremony but use it as just another day off... So using the comment that somebody gives not honor our soldiers sacrifices is a moot point when most Canadians don't give a shit...for those that do come out thank you ....one day out of the year, is not much to ask, considering the LGBTQ community has more than 100 days marked on the calendar to commemorate their cause, it puts into perspective where we place the sacrifices of our soldiers, don't use it as some supreme deed when That's not how canada thinks about it...we can't even treat our vets humanely, let alone our current serving soldiers... Nato only bears as much responsibility as literally every country on the planet that isn't Russia. I'm disappointed by Nato's contributions, but acting like any of this is NATO's fault is just incompetent. There is no legal obligation for humans to not destroy the earth. Reasonably, we should want humanity to ensure our survival, but there is no specific country or group of countries in charge of enforcing that. We can hope that countries start to take action, and absolutely should condemn individuals who support destroying the earth or inaction to prevent it's destruction, but there is no individual who bears sole responsibility for earth's survival. This ukraine war is bad news though, and ignorant people like to act like it isn't a big deal without considering what's at stake. Many countries in the world are military superpowers that could conquer many other countries on earth if they felt so inclined. They don't do that because humanity has come to recognize the sheer destruction that will be caused if superpowers clash against each other and so all wars of conquest were banned. It hasn't been a flawless implementation, but this is the first time a nuclear capable country has ever invaded another country with the intent of annexing it's territory, so until Russia went full rogue state the effort had achieved a considerable amount of success. Quote
User Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: We will see what happens in the US election in the coming weeks... Thanks for an article from over a year ago. *eye roll* Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
User Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 (edited) 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: I said it was my opinion....i own it, you don't have to like it...as i don't have to like your opinions.... This is the absolute most cowardly rhetoric to hide behind in a discussion. We are not talking about what your favorite ice cream is. See you in a couple of months when you can brag about how Russia has taken another 10 meters of land somewhere and how this is finally the end for Ukraine or how it is all a big conspiratorial effort from NATO to use Ukraine to drag this out forever... Edited October 12 by User Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
User Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 6 hours ago, Nationalist said: I think both Russia and Ukraine want ukrainian independence...I'd imagine. Here you go again @Army Guy Keep ignoring his posts and the absolute BS he is spewing. Russia wants Ukraine to be Independent, don't you see? That is why they invaded to conquer them and won't be giving any land they captured back. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Nationalist Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, User said: Here you go again @Army Guy Keep ignoring his posts and the absolute BS he is spewing. Russia wants Ukraine to be Independent, don't you see? That is why they invaded to conquer them and won't be giving any land they captured back. You think thats somehow contradictory? Interesting. Edited October 13 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted October 12 Report Posted October 12 33 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You fing that somehow contradictory? Interesting. I don't find it that way... it is that way. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 3 hours ago, User said: Thanks for an article from over a year ago. *eye roll* did you read it, glean any information from it, see any of nationalist statements in there....i did...but those guys must be russian cheerleaders right.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 3 hours ago, User said: This is the absolute most cowardly rhetoric to hide behind in a discussion. We are not talking about what your favorite ice cream is. See you in a couple of months when you can brag about how Russia has taken another 10 meters of land somewhere and how this is finally the end for Ukraine or how it is all a big conspiratorial effort from NATO to use Ukraine to drag this out forever... once again open up your eyes, Russia has taken back more than a few meters, Ukraines manpower situation is critical, moral is lower than dog shit troops are exhausted....desertions are at an all time high 15,000 or more....Kurst pocket is shrinking...and both leaders have expressed an interest in meeting....Have you or have you not been following this conflict... Let us all know why NATO has not cleaned out the closet to rearm Ukraine....why are they slow rolling their support....Can't supply them with enough arty shells or other ammo, can't give them any more tanks or IFV, can't even give them the old stuff....How many used and old F-16 does NATO have plenty ...how many old french mirages does france have, plenty ....If for one second you think NATO is doing everything in it's power to support Ukraine , then NATO is in very bad shape...Why would they not just change the tide of this conflict by giving Ukraine what they need to throw Russia out....ya i know you don't have an answer to thoise questions... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 6 hours ago, Videospirit said: Nato only bears as much responsibility as literally every country on the planet that isn't Russia. I'm disappointed by Nato's contributions, but acting like any of this is NATO's fault is just incompetent. There is no legal obligation for humans to not destroy the earth. Reasonably, we should want humanity to ensure our survival, but there is no specific country or group of countries in charge of enforcing that. We can hope that countries start to take action, and absolutely should condemn individuals who support destroying the earth or inaction to prevent it's destruction, but there is no individual who bears sole responsibility for earth's survival. This ukraine war is bad news though, and ignorant people like to act like it isn't a big deal without considering what's at stake. Many countries in the world are military superpowers that could conquer many other countries on earth if they felt so inclined. They don't do that because humanity has come to recognize the sheer destruction that will be caused if superpowers clash against each other and so all wars of conquest were banned. It hasn't been a flawless implementation, but this is the first time a nuclear capable country has ever invaded another country with the intent of annexing it's territory, so until Russia went full rogue state the effort had achieved a considerable amount of success. NATo has made promises it can not keep to ukraine, first was it promised to provide military supplies and military equipment to change the tide of this conflict....Europe does not want Russia on it's borders this is a european threat ...NATO answer the call....So stop with this is not NATO fault and it has no obligations here, it has evven promised entrance to NATO....i mean come on... So your going to sit there and tell me you hope peace will continue and massive defensive pacts like NATO, 5 eyes, etc are not to deter Russian aggression....along with on the pacific front as well with China...the US is the worlds policemen, and when it calls for NATO is also involved in keeping the worlds peace...Not hope or prayers...NATO and all that it brings to the table...I will tell you this if Russia or china , or any other nation with Nuclear weapons launch, OUR last days on the planet will be that day with the lucky ones dying in the blast the rest for radiation poisoning 7 to 14 days later... your hoping or praying is not going to change that... If NATO fully supported Ukraine with giving them the supplies and equipment they needed Russia would not stand a chance...Ukraine has already shown the world what it is capable of with what little NATO does supply....I will eat crow all day if you can prove me wrong....this rests clearly in NATO's lap...they have the power to change this conflict, or we let Ukraine die from a thousands cuts... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Videospirit Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 10 minutes ago, Army Guy said: NATo has made promises it can not keep to ukraine, first was it promised to provide military supplies and military equipment to change the tide of this conflict....Europe does not want Russia on it's borders this is a european threat ...NATO answer the call....So stop with this is not NATO fault and it has no obligations here, it has evven promised entrance to NATO....i mean come on... So your going to sit there and tell me you hope peace will continue and massive defensive pacts like NATO, 5 eyes, etc are not to deter Russian aggression....along with on the pacific front as well with China...the US is the worlds policemen, and when it calls for NATO is also involved in keeping the worlds peace...Not hope or prayers...NATO and all that it brings to the table...I will tell you this if Russia or china , or any other nation with Nuclear weapons launch, OUR last days on the planet will be that day with the lucky ones dying in the blast the rest for radiation poisoning 7 to 14 days later... your hoping or praying is not going to change that... If NATO fully supported Ukraine with giving them the supplies and equipment they needed Russia would not stand a chance...Ukraine has already shown the world what it is capable of with what little NATO does supply....I will eat crow all day if you can prove me wrong....this rests clearly in NATO's lap...they have the power to change this conflict, or we let Ukraine die from a thousands cuts... Part of it is that NATO doesn't trust Russia to act in a rational manner. If they felt they could give full support to Ukraine and kick Russia out of the country tomorrow without provoking a war with Russia, enough countries want that outcome that it would have happened by now. But countries don't trust Russia not to start world war 3 over Ukraine, so they've taken a cautious approach of gradually escalating support and gauging Russia's reaction. And since they've taken such an approach other motives have gotten mixed into the process, like testing weapons data and cost effectiveness and gauging Russia's military capability. Personally I feel they could kick Russia out of Ukraine and leave Russian territory alone and Russia would not destroy the world over Ukraine when it still has the entirety of Russia under its control, but I'm not 100% confidant in that because Putin calls a lot of the shots in Russia and while Russia would control all of Russia's territory if that happened, Putin might be ousted from power if it happens and I can't be certain what he'd do if he faced losing power. I'm skeptical he would lose power though, Putin's control of Russia is so firm that he could brand a total defeat in Ukraine as a Russian victory and the citizens of Russia would largely accept that explanation. I don't know the perfect approach to defeating Russia without starting world war 3, I just know that Russia can't be allowed to succeed, and that it's better to risk world war 3 than to guarantee world war 3 by convincing Russia it can conquer other Countries without opposition so risking it may be necessary. The US has lost the right to claim they're the world's police though. Mostly due to various republican presidents destroying the US softpower by abusing that unofficial role. The world doesn't trust the US enough for that. Quote
Nationalist Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 (edited) 14 hours ago, User said: I don't find it that way... it is that way. Ok so... 1. I do not believe Russia has any desire to rule Ukraine. Kiev is still standing. 2. They cannot leave or give back neither Crimea nor the eastern regions. Not unless NATO is willing to make Russia a full member. That might serve to quell any concerns both sides have. Edited October 13 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 13 hours ago, Videospirit said: 1.....Part of it is that NATO doesn't trust Russia to act in a rational manner. If they felt they could give full support to Ukraine and kick Russia out of the country tomorrow without provoking a war with Russia, enough countries want that outcome that it would have happened by now. 1......But countries don't trust Russia not to start world war 3 over Ukraine, so they've taken a cautious approach of gradually escalating support and gauging Russia's reaction. And since they've taken such an approach other motives have gotten mixed into the process, like testing weapons data and cost effectiveness and gauging Russia's military capability. 2....Personally I feel they could kick Russia out of Ukraine and leave Russian territory alone and Russia would not destroy the world over Ukraine when it still has the entirety of Russia under its control, but I'm not 100% confidant in that because Putin calls a lot of the shots in Russia and while Russia would control all of Russia's territory if that happened, Putin might be ousted from power if it happens and I can't be certain what he'd do if he faced losing power. I'm skeptical he would lose power though, Putin's control of Russia is so firm that he could brand a total defeat in Ukraine as a Russian victory and the citizens of Russia would largely accept that explanation. I don't know the perfect approach to defeating Russia without starting world war 3, I just know that Russia can't be allowed to succeed, and that it's better to risk world war 3 than to guarantee world war 3 by convincing Russia it can conquer other Countries without opposition so risking it may be necessary. The US has lost the right to claim they're the world's police though. Mostly due to various republican presidents destroying the US softpower by abusing that unofficial role. The world doesn't trust the US enough for that. 1.....Careful now, moonbeam and DUI are not going to like that comment, they believe that NATO does is not worried about Russia fake threats....but can't explain why NATO is slow rolling the resupply...I agree with your statement it is the only plausible reason why NATO is not stepping up and keeping it's "promise" to provide 14 brigades worth of equipment todate they have supplied only 4...thats where this situation is NATO fault by making promises it can't keep, that and NATO membership... 2....If putin does not bring victory to the russian people he will be taken for a short walk out in the woods...So there is no losing for him Russia has lost to much already to just move out of Ukraine, the only answer is to throw them out. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 35 minutes ago, Army Guy said: ...If putin does not bring victory to the russian people he will be taken for a short walk out in the woods...So there is no losing for him Russia has lost to much already to just move out of Ukraine, the only answer is to throw them out Then NATO's duty is to force that inevitably by continuing to supply Ukraine. That should include a price on Putin's head to help speed things along. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: they believe that NATO does is not worried about Russia fake threats....but can't explain why NATO is slow rolling the resupply... Domestic political considerations - cold feet. Politicians are more concerned about agitating the growing numbers of Putin's right wing apologists and supporters. There are enough now that elections hang in the balance. You can see the same phenomenon with regards to climate change - look at how NDP David Eby running for re-election in BC is saying that scrapping our carbon tax is on the table for example. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
User Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: did you read it, glean any information from it, see any of nationalist statements in there....i did...but those guys must be russian cheerleaders right.... You can't be honest enough about what is right in front of your face, but you will try to be cute about mocking me for something I never said about the article. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
User Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 6 hours ago, Nationalist said: 2. They cannot leave or give back neither Crimea nor the eastern regions. Not unless NATO is willing to make Russia a full member. That might serve to quell any concerns both sides have. Here you go again @Army Guy, another comment for you to ignore. This time, he insists that Russia be a part of NATO. It's not the first time he has made this dumb comment. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
User Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nationalist said: 1. I do not believe Russia has any desire to rule Ukraine. Kiev is still standing. Yeah, you keep saying this, but the fact that Russia is in a full-scale invasion says otherwise. You keep saying they are not giving back any land which conflicts with this. The fact that Keiv is still standing proves what? The place is surrounded with NATO provided protection that is constantly shooting down Russian drones, missiles, and aircraft. Also, lets just ignore the initial invasion push which was meant to take Kyiv at the start of the war... Here is Russia wounding some kids at a Childrens hospital... but sure, they are leaving Kyiv alone... https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/11/russias-july-8-attack-childrens-hospital-ukraine "As of June, the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine put the number of civilians killed since the start of full-scale invasion at least 9,560 civilians with at least 21,450 more injured, mainly by explosive weapons with wide area effects. The casualties include at least 1,796 children (594 killed and 1202 injured)." Edited October 13 by User Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
User Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: once again open up your eyes, Russia has taken back more than a few meters Taken back? Is that a Freudian slip there? We have already had this dumb argument with you many times already. My eyes are open just fine. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 1 hour ago, User said: You can't be honest enough about what is right in front of your face, but you will try to be cute about mocking me for something I never said about the article. I'm not mocking you...i asked if you had read the article , yes it is a year old but it's main story line is still relevant today...many of their points have been brought up by Nationalist...does that make the author a russian cheer leader... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 4 hours ago, eyeball said: Then NATO's duty is to force that inevitably by continuing to supply Ukraine. That should include a price on Putin's head to help speed things along. One would think that would be NATO's first priority, to ensure Russia is incapable of further aggression...NATO slow rolling support is doing just that, it allows or gives ukraine the means to slow russian gains into ukraine at a huge cost to Russia...Now if NATO had to keep it's promise ukraine would have the equipment means to throw Russia out , they have already proven they are capable of fighting, The question remains why have they not done so? Putin already has a price on his head, he knows if he does not hand russia so sort of victory he will be replaced by force...taken out back for a walk in the snow... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 1 hour ago, User said: Here you go again @Army Guy, another comment for you to ignore. This time, he insists that Russia be a part of NATO. It's not the first time he has made this dumb comment. Putin has already said it will not be giving back those territories it has seized...it has cost to much, ukraine lacks the resources to take it back....meaning that statement is not on the table for discussion.... Ukraine has said no talks unless all of ukraine is handed back to Ukraine..... Both sides recently has said they would like to talks to begin...no doubt , i mean both sides are exhausted, low on equipment, ammo, resources like funding etc...what those talks or demand s look like today no one has said... Russia will never be part of NATO...i'm not even sure that is a request of putins, this is the first i'm hearing of it... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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