Ten reasons why Socialism is wrong.

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What is with this sudden interest in what the Bible says about anything? 

My interest is very specific.  I've always been interested in why Jesus was killed for resisting tyranny and why every Christian wasn't commended by God to do the same.

Especially since it's an article of faith that God and Jesus are the same person.

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

My interest is very specific.  I've always been interested in why Jesus was killed for resisting tyranny and why every Christian wasn't commended by God to do the same.

You can find the answers to those kind of questions by doing a little study of the Bible and Bible commentaries.  I suggested gospel of John.  This subject is the central message of the Bible.   It has been said many times Jesus came to earth, born of a virgin, lived and then died for the sins of mankind.  Then on the third day was raised from the dead.  

Mankind rebelled against God beginning in the garden of Eden.  God's plan was to send his Son to redeem fallen man.  That is why the gospels are important as they explain who Jesus is and what he did for mankind.  All the miracles he did while on earth such as raising the dead, healing the sick, and these seen by eye witnesses prove he is who he said he is.  He never said every Christian was to do the same thing.  What would be the point of that?

Edited December 11, 2023 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We understand why we need some taxation for some basic services such as roads, police, fire department, etc.   But Socialism and Communism carry that to the extreme.   

That's exactly what's addressed by the Laffer Curve: finding taxation amounts that don't deter hard work, exceptionalism, etc.

Socialism and communism kill motivation (and 'the motivated' sometimes). 

[Gaétan]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

So you just throw out the ten commandments in Exodus or Deuteronomy? Thou shalt not kill,  thou shalt no steal, etc. is no longer applicable according to you?  

You don't think God's teachings in the Psalms, Proverbs, and other books of the Old Testament don't matter today?  What about the Old Testament prophecies telling about Jesus Christ?  Don't they have any value?

You need help from a good Bible believing counsellor. 

About the 10 commandments:

The Rich and the Kingdom of God

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[d]”

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

Jesus says what come from God in the ten commandments and after that he said to the rich to give his money to poor in respect to the golden rule to love his neighbor as himself

Jesus never said that the 10 commandments or the law of Moses comes from God. When he said the law of Moses, he says the law of Moses not the Law of God.  The law of Moses and the ten commandments come from the devil. He said to Jews: Jn 8.44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. This spirit is the instigator of Abel's murder, he read Cain's mind, realized that he was jealous, and increased his jealousy until he kills Abel by turning up his nose at his offerings, that's why Jesus said he was a muderer since the belinning.

You say that we shouldn't take money from rich and give it to poor, do you say that we shouldn't do nothing when there is injustice? When people starve to death because the richers have all the money, i don't mean to put them in jail but take from them and give it to poor. It is an obligation to stop injustice when there is.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Gaétan

[godzilla]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

We understand why we need some taxation for some basic services such as roads, police, fire department, etc.   But Socialism and Communism carry that to the extreme.   It requires a vast amount of money to pay for everything that every citizen would need to take care of him from cradle to grave if the government must pay for everything.  Food, shelter, health care, dental care, pharmacare, guaranteed income, etc. In order to enforce Socialism and Communism, government must not only enforce very heavy taxation, but they must control everything in life.  Micro-managing everyone's life becomes a natural outcome of an authoritarian government such as Socialism or Communist system.  That is the direction Canada is heading.  We have the largest geographical land mass in the world with a small population;  yet few can afford to buy any land to build on for a variety of reasons.  But government intervention and micro-managing at all levels is a big reason.

please back that claim up that land values are at the governments discretion. its completely out of touch.

one thing that people with such visions seem to suffer from is focus on very small things. like trans people who make up some tiny number of the population. when you talk about taxation and how that money is spent its like 95% is for these ideological suspect issues... have a look at actual federal and provincial budgets please. its the exact opposite. your provincial budget will probably show 40% goes to health care. i think BC traditionally spends less that half of a percent on welfare payments.

micro managing is probably the way that our democracy is able to ensure everyone is happy. democracy is a socialist construct. we need to be continually working to empower democracy and improve its reach and power. but there will always be a small number of people who feel that they are being micro managed even though they get up every morning and do whatever they want in a safe environment with everything that they need and find time to go on the internet and complain about how horrible their lives are becoming.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, godzilla said:

please back that claim up that land values are at the governments discretion. its completely out of touch.

That's an easy one to answer.  Something like 95% of land is crown land.  That means the government sets the price.  So if there is very little land available on the real estate market and it is very expensive, then of course the government will set a high price for a few acres of crown land (if you can even get it because it could be already leased to logging companies, etc. or reserved for some kind of preserve or park).  So the land that is available to buy through real estate companies is very expensive, well up in the hundreds of thousands.  Now even if the government has millions of acres of crown land, they won't sell it for a low price because they believe they should charge the same as expensive real estate developers are doing.  So government has the final word and the word is no, you can't buy it unless you pay a fortune.  So nobody can use it to build a home and that's where things are in this vast land of Canada that has hardly any population and vast tracts of wilderness.

On top of that, if the government started selling crown land for homes for a low price, the real estate developers and agents would scream blue murder because it would undermine the existing out of reach real estate market.  They would probably go to court and claim the government has no right to sell it for a low price.

Edited December 11, 2023 by blackbird

[godzilla]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

That's an easy one to answer.  Something like 95% of land is crown land.  That means the government sets the price.  So if there is very little land available on the real estate market and it is very expensive, then of course the government will set a high price for a few acres of crown land (if you can even get it because it could be already leased to logging companies, etc. or reserved for some kind of preserve or park).  So the land that is available to buy through real estate companies is very expensive, well up in the hundreds of thousands.  Now even if the government has millions of acres of crown land, they won't sell it for a low price because they believe they should charge the same as expensive real estate developers are doing.  So government has the final word and the word is no, you can't buy it unless you pay a fortune.  So nobody can use it to build a home and that's where things are in this vast land of Canada that has hardly any population and vast tracts of wilderness.

On top of that, if the government started selling crown land for homes for a low price, the real estate developers and agents would scream blue murder because it would undermine the existing out of reach real estate market.  They would probably go to court and claim the government has no right to sell it for a low price.

i actually know about this as i've worked for a provincial crown land leasing program. i'm afraid it doesn't work like this at all.

governments rarely sell crown land. period. if they do, its at market rates and there has to be a benefit to the community.

if governments sold at below market rate then they would be providing a benefit to select buyers. they don't do that for obvious reasons.

market values are supported by both provincial and federal governments because of the public's desire to support keynesian economics. the people of this democracy could vote anytime to break out more crown lands and provide it at lower costs or free to its citizens. there is no cabal that is preventing this from happening. but citizens do not want this because most of the population has invested in property and a sudden influx of cheap property would gut existing property values. at the extreme, if government decided simply to divvy all crown land to all citizens the property would become instantly worthless in the capital market.

Edited December 12, 2023 by godzilla

[blackbird]

28 minutes ago, godzilla said:

i actually know about this as i've worked for a provincial crown land leasing program. i'm afraid it doesn't work like this at all.

governments rarely sell crown land. period. if they do, its at market rates and there has to be a benefit to the community.

if governments sold at below market rate then they would be providing a benefit to select buyers. they don't do that for obvious reasons.

market values are supported by both provincial and federal governments because of the public's desire to support keynesian economics. the people of this democracy could vote anytime to break out more crown lands and provide it at lower costs or free to its citizens. there is no cabal that is preventing this from happening. but citizens do not want this because most of the population has invested in property and a sudden influx of cheap property would gut existing property values. at the extreme, if government decided simply to divvy all crown land to all citizens the property would become instantly worthless in the capital market.

Government withholding 95% of the real estate of Canada as crown land does nothing to solve the housing crisis.  One would think they would have some solutions using some of the crown land, but I've haven't heard it yet.  Since property values have doubled in about the last eight years, it would make sense if the government sold some of the crown land for a low price and help drive the cost of real estate down.

Edited December 12, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, godzilla said:

governments rarely sell crown land. period.

That is strange.  I just looked at one of the government website about crown land and they give some information and application form links on there.   Maybe they're just not saying publicly that they rarely sell crown land.  Wonder how towns can expand.   I guess the land developers can buy it from the government if they can make a good case.

[blackbird]

Just came across a news article that says criminal organizations are having a growing influence on government.  

The bigger or more Socialistic the government is, the greater negative influence these criminal organizations will have on society through the government.  This is bad news for Canadians.

"The Criminal Intelligence Service Canada (CISC) reported in 2022 that 29 organized crime groups reportedly have “influence and access” within the public sector, while at least 369 groups are believed to be trying to gain a toehold in government."

Crime groups gaining ‘influence’ in government agencies: federal report (msn.com)

[Aristides]

On 12/10/2023 at 4:18 PM, blackbird said:

We're not talking about taxes for essential services. The topic is about Socialism and Communism.

Socialism is also universal healthcare, EI, CPP, OAS etc. 

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, Aristides said:

Socialism is also universal healthcare, EI, CPP, OAS etc. 

We actually pay into CPP when we are working and our CPP is based on what was paid into it.  It is kind of a like a private plan.

I am not sure how EI works.  Some of these things could be considered essential.  I don't oppose support for people who are incapable of working for medical, mental, or health issues.  We need to maintain OAS and CPP because those things are essential for survival and there is nothing to replace them.  I am not sure I would say those kind of things are Socialism.  They are basic services.  But government seems to be going beyond those essential things and bringing in more and more and spending billions more on things that the government should not be really involved in. 

Public healthcare is another big question.  There are lots of problems with it now.  Millions of Canadians do not even have a family doctor.  Waiting lists and waiting times are long for some things.  Some emergency rooms are closing from time to time in B.C.  This is not acceptable health care.   It appears governments are not funding it properly either and provinces are certainly not producing the number of doctors required for it to work properly.   

Edited December 12, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

Just came across a news article that says criminal organizations are having a growing influence on government.  

The bigger or more Socialistic the government is, the greater negative influence these criminal organizations will have on society through the government.  This is bad news for Canadians.

"The Criminal Intelligence Service Canada (CISC) reported in 2022 that 29 organized crime groups reportedly have “influence and access” within the public sector, while at least 369 groups are believed to be trying to gain a toehold in government."

Crime groups gaining ‘influence’ in government agencies: federal report (msn.com)

Oddly enough CSIS points to the right wing as the direction from which this bad news for Canadians is coming from. They don't cite socialism or the size of the government anywhere at all in the article you posted.

“The CAF remains attractive to elements of the right-wing, with a series of internal reports having warned of white supremacist membership among the ranks,” the partially-censored report read. 

[suds]

21 hours ago, godzilla said:

i actually know about this as i've worked for a provincial crown land leasing program. i'm afraid it doesn't work like this at all.

governments rarely sell crown land. period. if they do, its at market rates and there has to be a benefit to the community.

if governments sold at below market rate then they would be providing a benefit to select buyers. they don't do that for obvious reasons.

market values are supported by both provincial and federal governments because of the public's desire to support keynesian economics. the people of this democracy could vote anytime to break out more crown lands and provide it at lower costs or free to its citizens. there is no cabal that is preventing this from happening. but citizens do not want this because most of the population has invested in property and a sudden influx of cheap property would gut existing property values. at the extreme, if government decided simply to divvy all crown land to all citizens the property would become instantly worthless in the capital market.

But what if government got into the land leasing business as China does (or used to do) for residential properties? So the builders build homes on land they know is leased for a 100 years (or whatever) to those who end up buying one of their homes and pay a monthly or yearly stipend to the government for the leased land. If buyers can't afford to buy a home at today's prices and mortgage rates, could they afford to buy the same home a few $100,000 cheaper and cut their mortgage payments by 30 or 40%? Of course if they wanted to sell they wouldn't get anywhere near the price of a similar home where the owner owned the property as well. I can see this affecting developers and speculators to a certain extent who own swaths of vacant land and could only sell to those buyers who wanted to outright own their own property. End result, greatly reduced home prices and mortgages, while the government gets another cash flow from those owning homes on government leased land. More choices and alternatives for those who want to get into the housing market are good in my opinion.

Edited December 12, 2023 by suds

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Oddly enough CSIS points to the right wing as the direction from which this bad news for Canadians is coming from. They don't cite socialism or the size of the government anywhere at all in the article you posted.

CSIS is not allowed to delve into politics or partisan affairs.  They are under the authority of the government and are not permitted to say much especially on politics.  Their only mandate is to investigate things of national security and intelligence matters.   Of course they don't report on "Socialism", "Liberalism" or anything of that nature.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, suds said:

But what if government got into the land leasing business as China does (or used to do) for residential properties? So the builders build homes on land they know is leased for a 100 years (or whatever) to those who end up buying one of their homes and pay a monthly or yearly stipend to the government for the leased land. If buyers can't afford to buy a home at today's prices and mortgage rates, could they afford to buy the same home a few $100,000 cheaper and cut their mortgage payments by 30 or 40%? Of course if they wanted to sell they wouldn't get anywhere near the price of a similar home where the owner owned the property as well. I can see this affecting developers and speculators to a certain extent who own swaths of vacant land and could only sell to those buyers who wanted to outright own their own property. End result, greatly reduced home prices and mortgages, while the government gets another cash flow from those owning homes on government leased land. More choices and alternatives for those who want to get into the housing market are good in my opinion.

That is what I was thinking.  In fact, I looked at the BC government website on leasing crown land.  It made me wonder why this is not being done now.  Perhaps, the government does not actually let crown land be leased except in very rare or exceptional circumstances.  Funny their website makes it seem it is common.  But I don't know of being done.  I think it could be a major part of resolving the housing crisis.  We need over a million homes per year to be built.  Why not lease crown land and build massive numbers of homes using pre-approved housing plans.  The government is going to create a book of pre-approved housing plans.

I know municipalities will oppose the idea on the basis that they must provide the infrastructure for services.  But surely they can find a way to do it.  Maybe postpone paved roads and sidewalks, and build sewage ponds on acreages in each area.  Use gravel roads for the time being.

[suds]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I know municipalities will oppose the idea on the basis that they must provide the infrastructure for services.  But surely they can find a way to do it.  Maybe postpone paved roads and sidewalks, and build sewage ponds on acreages in each area.  Use gravel roads for the time being.

Or perhaps the provincial or federal governments which are leasing the land to the home buyers could give some of the proceeds they receive for the leased land to the municipalities. Believe me, I'm no expert on this. How China did things got me going and I'm just throwing stuff out there.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

CSIS is not allowed to delve into politics or partisan affairs.  They are under the authority of the government and are not permitted to say much especially on politics.  Their only mandate is to investigate things of national security and intelligence matters.   Of course they don't report on "Socialism", "Liberalism" or anything of that nature.

Well then why did they cite right-wing white supremacists? They're like a church group or something - just regular folks without a single political bone in their bodies?

 

 

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well then why did they cite right-wing white supremacists? They're like a church group or something - just regular folks without a single political bone in their bodies?

 

 

I never said they don't have a political bone in their body.  They are civil servants or bureaucrats and as such they have their personal political beliefs, ideologies, and vote like everyone else.  Everyone is entitled to that.  But in their job in CSIS, they are required to at least on the surface appear neutral or non-partisan.

They could identify any extremist groups as part of their job, but the term "right wing" could be challenged as being political or biased.  The term refers to conservatives which is a legal political belief system or ideology.  Nobody can be declared terrorists simply because they are conservative.  That would be fundamental violation of Charter Rights.

They could refer to supremacists, but that is a very general term and who knows exactly what it means.  Perhaps it could be challenged in courts;  I don't know.  I don't know enough about the Constitution or Charter and legal system to know exactly whether the word "supremacist" could be questioned or challenged.  It is like the word genocide in Canada. 

Certain words are often applied to anything and everything someone dislikes.  Many Canadians are not too bright with words and like to throw them around for everything or anything they dislike.  Trying to link ordinary Canadians with supremacists is just the latest trend by many in the left.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I never said they don't have a political bone in their body.  They are civil servants or bureaucrats and as such they have their personal political beliefs, ideologies, and vote like everyone else.  Everyone is entitled to that.  But in their job in CSIS, they are required to at least on the surface appear neutral or non-partisan.

You're talking about Caesar minions here.  You are entitled to nothing.

 

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Certain words are often applied to anything and everything someone dislikes.

You apply your Bible's words to everything and both you and the Bible leave no room for compromise, ambiguity or equivocation. God's commands and instructions are clear.  You do as you're told by Caesar. Period. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by eyeball

[blackbird]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're talking about Caesar minions here.  You are entitled to nothing.

 

You apply your Bible's words to everything and both you and the Bible leave no room for compromise, ambiguity or equivocation. God's commands and instructions are clear.  You do as you're told by Caesar. Period. 

quote

By definition, conservatives believe that there are values, beliefs, attitudes and ideas worth conserving. Hence, they wake up every morning with a sense of existential glee; they recognize that their society, whilst far from perfect, contains many tried and tested ideas worth preserving. Liberals and progressives on the other hand wake up with a dark cloud of existential doom because their society is apparently racist, sexist, transphobic, Islamophobic and ableist. Canada supposedly sits on stolen land. Capitalism is an exploitative system that rapes Mother Earth. We have less than 15 minutes to go because of the existential crisis associated with climate change. Hence, from the perspective of the Noble Progressive, we must dismantle the current system and fight for Unicornia, which lies just around the corner. How could one be happy when there is so much ugliness in the world?  unquote

Gad Saad: Of course conservatives are happier — they believe society is worth it (msn.com)

My guide for truth is God's written revelation.

Edited December 13, 2023 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:33 PM, Aristides said:

I think as a society we have an obligation to look after those who can't look after themselves, beyond that we only have an obligation to try and create an environment where everyone else can look after themselves.

Indeed, there are some people who do need our help and we should help them. But i do believe that government has been the big problem for many people. More and higher taxes and big government is the problem for everyone. 

We all need to fight for more freedom from government intrusion into everything in our lives. We need to have less taxes, and less government in our lives because government "IS" the bloody problem, and never the bloody solution. 

We have more government and more taxes and less freedom then we ever have had in history. We are truly living in a socialist country called Canada today where we have way too much big brother government running and ruining our daily lively hood. 

Canada should be one of the most wealthiest countries in the world. Instead, we appear to be heading for bankruptcy because the socialist government of Canada is spending way too much money than it has to spend. The Canadian government rather than living within it's means, like we peasants have to do, the government prefers to borrow more and more money from the evil WEF globalist banksters to be able to blow that money on more useless socialist programs and agendas that makes things even worse. Demanding more government, and not less, is not what is needed to try and make Canada great again. Demanding more government is making everything worse and not better IMHO. ?

[blackbird]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:58 AM, eyeball said:

Ah but it's not by force at all because God's orders are to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. This means anyone who doesn't pay their taxes is a thief and a sinner.

So you interpret that to mean the Communist revolutions were good and proper.  According to what you said, Chairman Mao and Stalin did no wrong in taking land, farms away from everyone who owned them and giving pieces to everyone in the form of collectives?  Was Hitler, Stalin, and Chairman Mao all doing the right things?  You don't differentiate between totalitarian dictators and honest leaders I guess.

According to you, no rulers or dictators can do wrong.  In your thinking, rulers have the final and absolute say about wealth redistribution and private property.  Your reasoning means ordinary citizens have no rights to ownership of private property or wealth.  That is pure Marxism or Communism.

Edited December 13, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

My guide for truth is God's written revelation.

The Bible is not just a guide though.  In addition to revelations it also contains laws and instruction on how to follow them.

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

By definition, conservatives...

Does the Bible even mention conservatives never mind putting their values above Caesar's?

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Does the Bible even mention conservatives never mind putting their values above Caesar's?

There are many Christians/Bible believers who are conservatives in their thinking simply because there beliefs align more closely with conservative beliefs.  What God says in the Bible of course is above Caesar.  Caesar is not God and is just a created mortal being the same as any other mortal.  Therefore he is a fallen sinner and in need of salvation as well. 

Just as a side point.  Since you mentioned Caesar, you might know the Roman Empire persecuted  and killed Christians in the first few centuries because they thought Christians were a threat to the rulers like Caesar.  They believed that Caesar was god and all the false religions that existed at the time had to acknowledge him as a god.   There is no other God than the one who inspired the Bible and who is Jesus Christ.