Ten reasons why Socialism is wrong.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Caesar is not God and is just a created mortal being the same as any other mortal.  Therefore he is a fallen sinner and in need of salvation as well. 

Not salvation from you though. Recall what I said about gravity and the hierarchy of processes God created and ordered you to adhere to? Like you just said What God says in the Bible of course is above Caesar.

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Just as a side point.  Since you mentioned Caesar, you might know the Roman Empire persecuted  and killed Christians in the first few centuries because they thought Christians were a threat to the rulers like Caesar.  They believed that Caesar was god and all the false religions that existed at the time had to acknowledge him as a god. 

You can be certain these were conservatives interpreting God's orders to suit their own purposes. I certainly don't see anything at all that suggests these were progressive people, do you? 

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There is no other God than the one who inspired the Bible and who is Jesus Christ.

And it also says render unto Caesar that which is his.  You don't find any inspiration in that at all? 

[Gaétan]

27 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There are many Christians/Bible believers who are conservatives in their thinking simply because there beliefs align more closely with conservative beliefs.  What God says in the Bible of course is above Caesar.  Caesar is not God and is just a created mortal being the same as any other mortal.  Therefore he is a fallen sinner and in need of salvation as well. 

Just as a side point.  Since you mentioned Caesar, you might know the Roman Empire persecuted  and killed Christians in the first few centuries because they thought Christians were a threat to the rulers like Caesar.  They believed that Caesar was god and all the false religions that existed at the time had to acknowledge him as a god.   There is no other God than the one who inspired the Bible and who is Jesus Christ.

Cesar was a conservatice, he printed money, gave it to his servants to buy luxuries and when he felt that he was getting short of it he taxed the people to recover the money

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

And it also says render unto Caesar that which is his.

You seem to have missed the point.  Nobody is saying one should not obey authorities.  

Believers in Jesus Christ and his written word have a responsibility to oppose laws and practices which are opposed the Bible.  We oppose evil laws and practices by speaking against them and voting against politicians who support ungodly things.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Gaétan said:

Cesar was a conservatice, he printed money, gave it to his servants to buy luxuries and when he felt that he was getting short of it he taxed the people to recover the money

Caesar was an absolute dictator.   There were no political parties and no such thing as democracy.  Wikipedia says:

"Gaius Julius Caesar (/ˈsiːzər/, SEE-zər; Latin: [ˈɡaːiʊs ˈjuːliʊs ˈkae̯sar]; 12 July 100 BC – 15 March 44 BC) was a Roman general and statesman. A member of the First Triumvirate, Caesar led the Roman armies in the Gallic Wars before defeating his political rival Pompey in a civil war, and subsequently became dictator from 49 BC until his assassination in 44 BC. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire."

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by blackbird

[Gaétan]

34 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Caesar was an absolute dictator.   There were no political parties and no such thing as democracy.  Wikipedia says:

"Gaius Julius Caesar (/ˈsiːzər/, SEE-zər; Latin: [ˈɡaːiʊs ˈjuːliʊs ˈkae̯sar]; 12 July 100 BC – 15 March 44 BC) was a Roman general and statesman. A member of the First Triumvirate, Caesar led the Roman armies in the Gallic Wars before defeating his political rival Pompey in a civil war, and subsequently became dictator from 49 BC until his assassination in 44 BC. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire."

 

Cesar was a dictator conservative

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You seem to have missed the point.  Nobody is saying one should not obey authorities.  

Believers in Jesus Christ and his written word have a responsibility to oppose laws and practices which are opposed the Bible.

 

37 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Caesar was an absolute dictator.

Then why in God's s name did Jesus pick an absolute dictator as the example of whom people should render everything to?

No freakin' kidding I miss the point.

[blackbird]

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then why in God's s name did Jesus pick an absolute dictator as the example of whom people should render everything to?

No freakin' kidding I miss the point.

The reason why we have dictators  is because of the fall of man.  It is part of all the evil in the world that man brought on himself.  

"Genesis 3 introduces us to another being involved in the fall of man: the serpent. Satan had already been cast down to earth due to his rebellion against God in heaven (Luke 10:18). Satan came to Eve as a serpent and suggested to the woman that God had not really forbidden the fruit for her good but was rather keeping good from her (Genesis 3:1–4). So she ate it and gave some to Adam (Genesis 3:5). Adam also ate it, and in that moment everything changed. Sin had entered into God’s perfect world (Romans 5:12). Mankind had fallen.

The fall of man was caused by Adam’s sin. Sin is any human behavior, word, or thought that is contrary to the perfection of God. Because of Adam’s sin, God placed a curse upon the world, the people, the animals, the plants, and the very ground (Genesis 3:14–19). Their sin had brought upon them the judgment of God, and the only just punishment for such high treason is eternal death (Romans 6:23). But God then put into play a system by which human beings could find pardon for sin. God killed an animal and made garments for the man and woman to cover the nakedness that now brought them shame (Genesis 3:21). In doing so, God painted a picture of what He would do thousands of years later when the Perfect Lamb was slain to take away our sin (John 1:29; Revelation 13:8)."

What truly happened at the fall of man? | GotQuestions.org

[Gaétan]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The reason why we have dictators  is because of the fall of man.  It is part of all the evil in the world that man brought on himself.  

"Genesis 3 introduces us to another being involved in the fall of man: the serpent. Satan had already been cast down to earth due to his rebellion against God in heaven (Luke 10:18). Satan came to Eve as a serpent and suggested to the woman that God had not really forbidden the fruit for her good but was rather keeping good from her (Genesis 3:1–4). So she ate it and gave some to Adam (Genesis 3:5). Adam also ate it, and in that moment everything changed. Sin had entered into God’s perfect world (Romans 5:12). Mankind had fallen.

The fall of man was caused by Adam’s sin. Sin is any human behavior, word, or thought that is contrary to the perfection of God. Because of Adam’s sin, God placed a curse upon the world, the people, the animals, the plants, and the very ground (Genesis 3:14–19). Their sin had brought upon them the judgment of God, and the only just punishment for such high treason is eternal death (Romans 6:23). But God then put into play a system by which human beings could find pardon for sin. God killed an animal and made garments for the man and woman to cover the nakedness that now brought them shame (Genesis 3:21). In doing so, God painted a picture of what He would do thousands of years later when the Perfect Lamb was slain to take away our sin (John 1:29; Revelation 13:8)."

What truly happened at the fall of man? | GotQuestions.org

You don't know anything, the ban on eating the fruit was a devil's trap

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

You don't know anything, the ban on eating the fruit was a devil's trap

"15  And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2: 15, 16 King James Bible

[Gaétan]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"15  And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2: 15, 16 King James Bible

The prohibitions and restrictions in the Old Testament, the Pentateuch, are mafia taxes of the devil. So with God, you eat what you want, you pray when you want, you wash if you want, you fast when you want, you work when you want, you dress how you want. Jesus denounced them all because he knew about these taxes of the devil. These taxes are imaginary sins intended to punish you if you break them. It's like the mafia, when you start paying, if one day you don't do it anymore, you are punished, with these restrictions, it's the same thing. The first victims of the tax were Adam and Eve, it was not yesterday that the devil began to sicken us, he was present from the beginning of humanity, John 8.44.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2: 15, 16 King James Bible

Well we all know how that worked out but like every answer you come up you only paint yourself more tightly into a corner.

If Adam and Eve surely died that day how did they begat Cain and Abel?

[godzilla]

god doesn't rule over animals that evolved from apes. if there is a god, then it is the universe itself.

[TreeBeard]

40 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If Adam and Eve surely died that day how did they begat Cain and Abel?

God did tell a small fib about the dying part…

[Gaétan]

12 minutes ago, godzilla said:

god doesn't rule over animals that evolved from apes. if there is a god, then it is the universe itself.

Jesus says this in “Wisdom of Jesus Christ” ( Book of Sofia) texts from Nag Hammadi: “Let he who has ears to hear hear! The Lord of all, we do not say “Father”, but “Pro-Father”. He is indeed the Father of the beginning of those who are to come into existence. He is the Pro-Father without beginning. Because he contemplates himself as in a mirror, he reveals himself by representing himself. From Gnostic Writings, the Nag Hammadi Library, Gallimard

So Christ distinguishes between the Father and the Pro-Father. He says the Lord of all, he means that the Pro-Father is the Father of the universe, of everything that exists, he says the Father of those who must come into existence, the Father of life, he is the Pro-Father without beginning, therefore he existed before the beginning of the universe and he has always existed. The Father is the Father of this planet while the Pro-Father is the Father of the universe

Edited December 14, 2023 by Gaétan

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well we all know how that worked out but like every answer you come up you only paint yourself more tightly into a corner.

If Adam and Eve surely died that day how did they begat Cain and Abel?

Not everything in the bible is easy to understand.  Some things require further investigation and study.

The first thing to understand about the Bible is not everything can be understood in the way it might seem.  Sometimes there are nuances or further clarification as to what a verse means.  Sometimes there is far more to a word than what appears on the surface.  That is the case in this verse.  The word die has a special meaning.

When God said "17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2:17 KJV

Benson's Bible Commentary says this about that verse:

"Of the tree of knowledge thou shalt not eat — Hitherto God has been manifested as man’s powerful Creator and bountiful Benefactor: now he appears as his Ruler and Lawgiver, and, as such, enters into covenant with him. He gives him but one positive precept, to try his obedience, which, as his Sovereign Lord, he had a right to do, annexing death to the breach, and, of consequence, life and immortality to the observance of it. It is evident, however, that this was not all God required of man, but that a law was written on his heart, requiring him to love God to the utmost extent of his capacity, and to imitate him in all holiness and righteousness. Thou shalt surely die — The death here threatened is evidently to be considered as opposed to the life (or lives rather, Genesis 2:7) which God had bestowed on him. This was not only the natural life of his body, in its union with his soul, but the spiritual life of his soul, in its union with God, and the eternal life of both. The threatening then implies: Thou shalt not only lose all the happiness thou hast, either in possession or prospect, and become liable to the death of thy body, and all the miseries which precede and accompany it; but thou shalt lose thy spiritual life, and become dead to God and things divine, and shalt even forfeit thy title to immortality, and be liable to death eternal. And all this in the day thou eatest thereof."

Genesis 2:17 Commentaries: but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." (biblehub.com)

Thank you for asking about that verse.  May God bless you for inquiring about that verse and why it says what it says.  That is an important question.  I had previously not given much thought to it and this has given me more knowledge about the verse.

It is evident the day they ate the forbidden fruit, they died spiritually, that is, became separated from God and received a physical death sentence.  Prior to that, they would not have died physically, but on that day they in effect received the sentence of death.  That was an extremely grave and a serious event.  Because they were our first parents, the same sentence was pronounced or passed on all their descendants from then on.  That was a major turning point for humanity and the whole world.  The world changed from a paradise that day to a lost, corrupt, and fallen world with wars, sickness, and death. We have all inherited that guilt and sinful, fallen nature. That is why we need to be redeemed.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Gaétan said:

Jesus says this in “Wisdom of Jesus Christ” ( Book of Sofia) texts from Nag Hammadi: “Let he who has ears to hear hear! The Lord of all, we do not say “Father”, but “Pro-Father”.

Good grief man, that is not from the Holy Bible but from some heretical fiction.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Not everything in the bible is easy to understand.

That's an understatement. The entire thing is a contradiction of common sense not to mention physics.

[myata]

Funny, from conservatives who are looking to control and dominate. The opposites attract, guessing.

or.. stay with me, could it be essentially, one and same thing? The tokens, cliches different but in essence? We get to decide everything. You have no choice but to obey, and worship.

Edited December 14, 2023 by myata

[Gaétan]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not everything in the bible is easy to understand.  Some things require further investigation and study.

The first thing to understand about the Bible is not everything can be understood in the way it might seem.  Sometimes there are nuances or further clarification as to what a verse means.  Sometimes there is far more to a word than what appears on the surface.  That is the case in this verse.  The word die has a special meaning.

 

 

 

 

You choose what you can make of it as a profit when Jesus totally rejected money and didn't dare touch it, it was the traitor who carried the purse

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's an understatement. The entire thing is a contradiction of common sense not to mention physics.

The Apostle Paul wrote these words to the Corinthian believers.

" 23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29  That no flesh should glory in his presence. "

1 Corinthians 1:23-29 KJV

"14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. "  1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

Edited December 14, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

51 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

You choose what you can make of it as a profit when Jesus totally rejected money and didn't dare touch it, it was the traitor who carried the purse

More nonsense!   Jesus never rejected money.  He warned against the "love of money".  He opposed making money a god.  But he never opposed the use of money.   How else would society be able to function if we didn't have money as a way to buy the necessities of life?  

[blackbird]

13 hours ago, godzilla said:

god doesn't rule over animals that evolved from apes. if there is a god, then it is the universe itself.

Believing the universe is God is a false religious belief called pantheism.  (a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.)

God condemns these false beliefs as idolatry.

Since the first of the ten commandments is about idolatry, God considers idolatry as a very serious matter.

"3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Exodus 20:3-6 KJV

[Gaétan]

29 minutes ago, blackbird said:

More nonsense!   Jesus never rejected money.  He warned against the "love of money".  He opposed making money a god.  But he never opposed the use of money.   How else would society be able to function if we didn't have money as a way to buy the necessities of life?  

You don't understand the bible, we cannot use money because of the rule to love your neighbour as yourself, Jesus told the apostles to not take money, the money is the tool of the devil.

[blackbird]

Half of Canadians believe in Socialism.  They obviously don't know anything about God's written revelation, in English, the King James Bible.  If they knew anything about it, they would have some knowledge about the ten points I posted at the top of this subject, ten reasons why Socialism is wrong.  If they were born again, they would be opposing Socialism.  But because they are not, they are contributing to the fall of Canada.  Socialism could well destroy our country or turn it into a basket case as it is doing now with the health care system, the housing crisis, and cost of living crisis for millions of Canadians.

"

Half of Canadians think socialism is okay©Provided by The Daily Digest

Canada is often thought of as a country that is steeped in socialist policies because of its free healthcare and robust social safety net, and if you ask those living in the country, nearly half would say they support socialism."

Support for socialism in Canada is strong, but no one wants to pay for it (msn.com)

[Nationalist]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:57 PM, Gaétan said:

Here what means to love your neighbour as yourself:

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This what Jesus tought all his live and accomplished and this is pure communism, communism is based on that,  To take money from rich and give it to poor. 

 

Wow that's a stretch.

So...show me where Jesus is quoted as having thought or said that the wealth of the rich must be taken from them and given to the poor. Because THAT'S Communism.