Hundreds of trans teens under 18 have had breasts removed in Canada, new data show

CdnFox · October 2, 2023

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

No proof that any minors were given puberty blockers without parental awareness. They get counselling for social transition which is not the same thing at all. Did you even read the article?

Gotta say it's pretty funny how mad the right gets about things that aren't even happening. Because they wish for it to be true to rationalize and justify their personal aversions, even though it clearly isn't true

You of all people should be more honest than that. If they can consent without parents saying so, they can do so without parental awareness.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/canadian-court-rules-child-can-start-hormone-therapy-without-parental-consent

So lets not pretend it doesn't happen or can't happen.

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

Bullshit.

Oh look who's lying rather than actually backing up his claim again. Yawn.

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

No proof that any minors were given puberty blockers without parental awareness.

The activists are lying when they frame the issues, pure and simple.

"“This upset me so much,” she says. “Kids were being taught to lie to parents.”"

Not so. The students are asking that the teachers not tell their parents. Not the same at all.

CdnFox · October 2, 2023

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The activists are lying when they frame the issues, pure and simple.

"“This upset me so much,” she says. “Kids were being taught to lie to parents.”"

Not so. The students are asking that the teachers not tell their parents. Not the same at all.

It is the same. A lie by omission is still a lie. They are training the kids to deceive their parents RATHER than teaching or helping them engage with their parents.

OftenWrong · October 2, 2023

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Gotta say it's pretty funny how mad the right gets about things that aren't even happening.

Keep laughing. Yuk it up.

I mentioned prescription drugs in this thread because I know they are being used much more than surgery, and they're easier to get and hide from parents.

Here's what it says on the Manitoba government education web site.

"Youth under the age of majority (18) may be able to change their sex designation without parental consent. To do so, they must be declared a “mature minor” by a recognized health care professional and follow the same requirements as those outlined above. The mature minor doctrine states that, regardless of age,
a child is capable of consenting (or refusing to consent) to treatment if he or she is able to appreciate the nature and purpose of the treatment and the consequences of giving or refusing consent. If the child has the requisite capacity, then the child’s consent is both necessary and sufficient; the parent’s consent is not required, nor can the parent override the child’s decision.

https://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/docs/support/transgender/legal.pdf

Army Guy · October 2, 2023

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The activists are lying when they frame the issues, pure and simple.

"“This upset me so much,” she says. “Kids were being taught to lie to parents.”"

Not so. The students are asking that the teachers not tell their parents. Not the same at all.

Your assuming that ALL students have agreed to this, when they have not.... but it is "school policy" , also many provinces have laws preventing parents from being informed, not to tell parents...as in NB, Sask case they are changing that policy to now include parents...

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I know they are being used much more than surgery,

2. they're easier to get

3. ... hide from parents.

4. Here's what it says on the Manitoba government education web site.

"Youth under the age of majority (18) may be able to change their sex designation without parental consent. To do so, they must be declared a “mature minor” by a recognized health care professional and follow the same requirements as those outlined above. The mature minor doctrine states that, regardless of age,
a child is capable of consenting (or refusing to consent) to treatment if he or she is able to appreciate the nature and purpose of the treatment and the consequences of giving or refusing consent. If the child has the requisite capacity, then the child’s consent is both necessary and sufficient; the parent’s consent is not required, nor can the parent override the child’s decision.

https://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/docs/support/transgender/legal.pdf

1. That's a good thing though right?

2. I should hope so.

3. They're not hiding though, as per 4. They don't have to reveal anything.

4. That's aligned with the legal system's rulings on health. I just learned about that.

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

1. This man tried to save his confused teenage daughter's life. Courts prevented him frim having any say.

1. If he tried to stop his confused daughter from having an abortion, should he have say?

These aren't easy questions...

OftenWrong · October 2, 2023

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's a good thing though right?

Not if parents are not informed or involved in their child's welfare, no. You think the government and some school board does a better job caring for a child's unique needs than parents?

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I just learned about that.

Great. Once again happy to keep you people duly informed, Michael Hardner.

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

1. Chuds don't exist. It's just your term for people who disagree with you so that you can dehumanize them and therefore dismiss the valid arguments they make.

2. Lefties like you

3. Whereas those on the right think people like you are the worst people on earth - but still people.

1. I personally hate that I have to use a provocative term like Chud to describe the fake conservatives who populate this board like potato bugs on the wet side of a rock... BUT... even the best of them delight in calling people groomers, woke, wokies and wokescolds. Those terms are identical to Chud in etymological formation.. except that I have pioneered the term Chud and will continue to use it as it is apt.

2. Nope I am conservative.

3. You call people who disagree with you groomer which means pedophile. I stopped complaining about that awhile ago. If you agree to never call me a pedophile I will agree to not call you a Chud.

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Not if parents are not informed or involved in their child's welfare, no.

2. You think the government and some school board does a better job caring for a child's unique needs than parents?

3. Great. Once again happy to keep you people duly informed, Michael Hardner.

1. It's a good thing that drugs are used over surgery, all else being equal. Obviously.

2. You selectively left out the most important person - the person's doctor. Is a doctor better at caring than the parent? Unfortunately the answer sometimes is yes.

3. Not from you... it was an analysis of the Manitoba ruling, but I could have learned it from you I suppose...

OftenWrong · October 2, 2023

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. If he tried to stop his confused daughter from having an abortion, should he have say?

These aren't easy questions...

I can point out how the two questions are not the same. Attempting to compare dissimilar concepts as though they're equal is a failing of liberalism.

But even so, this is more like the school helping the child get an abortion, and not telling the parents anything about it.

Michael Hardner · October 2, 2023

29 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I can point out how the two questions are not the same. Attempting to compare dissimilar concepts as though they're equal is a failing of liberalism.

But even so, this is more like the school helping the child get an abortion, and not telling the parents anything about it.

Of course they're not the same. But they are similar.

If a student wanted an abortion and asked a teacher how to go about it, my guess is that the same principle would apply. I imagine that the teacher is likely even legally bound to keep quiet.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Michael Hardner

OftenWrong · October 3, 2023

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Of course they're not the same. But they are similar.

If a student wanted an abortion and asked a teacher how to go about it, my guess is that the same principle would apply. I imagine that the teacher is likely even legally bound to keep quiet.

That's nice that you imagine, but backing up your claims would make for a more useful conversation. Like I did.

Am not terribly interested in people's speculation and feelings.

Michael Hardner · October 3, 2023

Just now, OftenWrong said:

That's nice that you imagine, but backing up your claims would make for a more useful conversation. Like I did.

Am not terribly interested in people's speculation and feelings.

Well I am only guessing... the point is that there's a legal foundation for this that's outside of the education system.

I'd be happy to look it up, but it's not backing anything that I support... I'm talking generally about where these things come from.

I have a problem with these types of conversations because as I already said "THESE AREN'T EASY QUESTIONS". I just found out legal basis of this stuff a couple of days ago. So I am not defending anything.

If you're looking for an argument on this part... you have to look elsewhere...

OftenWrong · October 3, 2023

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you're looking for an argument on this part... you have to look elsewhere...

Am not looking for an argument, am looking for facts. I showed the doubters that it is possible for a child to get advice from schools and receive medical treatment for "Gender dysphoria" without parental awareness or consent.

I also showed that education boards are well aware of it and publishing the information as a resource for educators to use.

Yes the laws have been that way but were written for more serious medical problems where it's clear there is an ailment. It's debateable whether this is a valid medical prognosis or just a phase that uncertain minors are going through.

But now that it's become a huge media thing, now that it's a hot topic being promoted by the federal government as though it's a social emergency, we need to be sure the bar is high enough that kids won't make the biggest mistake in their lives.

These issues will go to the supreme court and liberals will lose. But the social damage they're inflicting will already be done.

CdnFox · October 3, 2023

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's a good thing that drugs are used over surgery, all else being equal. Obviously.

No, it isn't. The drugs still leave the kids permanently altered and in most cases unable to have children. Their whole lives will have been permanently changed.

Drugs are essentially Chemical surgery. Chemical castration isn't really better than surgical castration.

Just leave kids alone till their old enough to make their own decisions.

eyeball · October 3, 2023

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Oh look who's lying rather than actually backing up his claim again. Yawn.

Nothing backs it up better than you.

Good job btw.

CdnFox · October 3, 2023

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Nothing backs it up better than you.

Nothing backs up you being a liar better than me?

You're not wrong - i do prove it pretty regular - but ... is that what you MEANT to say?

Or shall we just change it to 'unusually stupid liar' and call it a day?

eyeball · October 3, 2023

Just now, CdnFox said:

.. is that what you MEANT to say?

?

CdnFox · October 3, 2023

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

?

LOL - well another night, another shattering of Eyeball's mind

blackbird · October 3, 2023

This is appalling that this is going on in Canada. Very tragic.

Boges · October 3, 2023

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It is the same. A lie by omission is still a lie. They are training the kids to deceive their parents RATHER than teaching or helping them engage with their parents.

Would you prefer Child Protective Services be called because the child is clearly afraid to tell their parents they feel they are a different gender?

PIK · October 3, 2023

In my town a early 20's and mentally challenged kid, with the capacity of a 10 yr old was allowed to cut his nuts off Went to Quebec,and for free. Now he walks around almost naked, acts lije a 10 yr old that he is. Shows people. And now he wants his dick back. He is a attention grabber. And they think that is the only reason he did have. His twin has not spoke to him since. It's a very sad case. These pervert policies of Trudeau's must end. How many kids, will mature and realize they made a huge mistake.

Nationalist · October 3, 2023

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The activists are lying when they frame the issues, pure and simple.

"“This upset me so much,” she says. “Kids were being taught to lie to parents.”"

Not so. The students are asking that the teachers not tell their parents. Not the same at all.

What an oddly disgusting thing to say.

Michael Hardner · October 3, 2023

1 hour ago, PIK said:

In my town a early 20's and mentally challenged kid, with the capacity of a 10 yr old was allowed to cut his nuts off Went to Quebec,and for free. Now he walks around almost naked, acts lije a 10 yr old that he is. Shows people. And now he wants his dick back. He is a attention grabber. And they think that is the only reason he did have. His twin has not spoke to him since. It's a very sad case. These pervert policies of Trudeau's must end. How many kids, will mature and realize they made a huge mistake.

Nice story...

Everybody... let's shape our health policies based on this story.

(Transition regret rate is low, just fyi)