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Trudeau should resign over Nazi recognition by Parliament


blackbird

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Once again...Pixie-Dust and his merry Tweenkies have f'ed up and embarrassed Canada. What a surprise.

What is it with people these days? Are we really so stupid that we elect blithering id1ots to office? Look at our last 2 elections. The CPC presents Canadians with f'ing Howdy-Doody and another who has the spine of a worm. Almost as if Canadians were meant to have no other choice.

Its a race to the bottom.

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3 hours ago, blackbird said:

It looks like everything Trudeau and the Liberals touch turns to garbage.  This somehow seems similar to the ex GG, David Johnson appointed to investigate Chinese election interference.  He was extremely unpopular in that position and finally had to step down.  Now another liberal, the Speaker of the House of Commons is being forced to step down.  All this is because of Trudeau and Liberal mismanagement.  Why didn't the Liberals ensure they had a proper process for screening every individual coming into the House of Commons?  This was one of the most important gatherings in the HOC in many years and it was sabotaged by the mistake of one man.  This has far-reaching consequences with Russian propaganda and Canada's image on the world stage.  Surely the government should be held responsible since they are the only ones that have the power and organization to properly screen individuals.

The speaker is independent of the government, they are elected by parliament in a secret ballot. Any MP can run, regardless of party. The guest list was given to the House protocol office, again, nothing to do with the government and shared with corporate security. I doubt this guy was considered a security threat.

The speaker is totally parliament's animal and not subject to government interference in doing their job. 

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Regardless of the fact some of you just simply don't want to  believe it, the Speaker invited the guy and the PMO did not have to clear it first. Dump the shit on Rota's head where it belongs, not Justin's.

Yes, it was an incredibly stupid and embarrassing thing and politically damaging, and I do believe that Rota should offer his resignation for committing such a gross error and embarrassing the whole country, not just the Liberals or Parliament. But his two faced politicking when everyone stood and applauded because they didn't know beforehand, just like neither Trudeau nor PP nor Singh. It was on Rota's head to have done a check beforehand.

Get off your high horses.

Edited by herbie
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10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

All the same he was a nuclear exploding cigar that blew up in Parliament.

Everyone's wearing blackface now.

True but their job is to vet people on security, not make political judgements. I do question if no one advised the speaker on this guys actually background and if not, why not.

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2 hours ago, herbie said:

Regardless of the fact some of you just simply don't want to  believe it, the Speaker invited the guy and the PMO did not have to clear it first. Dump the shit on Rota's head where it belongs, not Justin's.

 

He's justin's boy - he gets to wear it.  That's the way it works in parliament and in politics.

Remember when the liberals wanted harper to step down because Ota bought 15 dollar orange juice? 

Sorry but he's still part of the liberal party. He doesn't stop representing the liberals just because he becomes speaker. He still attends the caucus.

Justin gets to wear this albatross whether he shot it or not.

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22 hours ago, Aristides said:

Back to reality, no prime minister would resign over this.

Justin is not going to resign over anything he has done or will do...he does not have the leadership qualities for that...Nor do the liberal voters, expect any different...

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4 hours ago, Aristides said:

The speaker is independent of the government, they are elected by parliament in a secret ballot. Any MP can run, regardless of party. The guest list was given to the House protocol office, again, nothing to do with the government and shared with corporate security. I doubt this guy was considered a security threat.

The speaker is totally parliament's animal and not subject to government interference in doing their job. 

Independent like the minister of justice is or was...not subjected to governmental interference on paper anyways.

Ya the guy was 95 that was not the issue, the issue was he was an SS Nazi soldier...that has caused an inter national incident....The liberals have had several past issues with not vetting people properly that have caused this nation heart ache in the past.... 

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Probably not  but I still maintain no PM would resign over this.

I agree, Justin may be a wingnut , but this was out of his control.

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1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

Independent like the minister of justice is or was...not subjected to governmental interference on paper anyways.

Ya the guy was 95 that was not the issue, the issue was he was an SS Nazi soldier...that has caused an inter national incident....The liberals have had several past issues with not vetting people properly that have caused this nation heart ache in the past.... 

I mean - not just a nazi soldier .. oh no that's not good enough, he had to find a frikkin' waffen SS soldier SERVING IN THE USSR - which means rounding up jews and the like,

The Waffen-SS were involved in numerous atrocities.[13] Due to its involvement in the Holocaust, the Porajmos and numerous war crimes and crimes against the civilian population, it was declared a criminal organization by the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg in 1946.

The russians are furious, the jews are furious, poland is furious, he's pissed off half of europe and we look like the worst kind of losers

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5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Independent like the minister of justice is or was...not subjected to governmental interference on paper anyways.

No, the speaker is not a government appointee or part of the government, they are chosen and elected by MP's in a secret ballot. The speaker is supposed to be neutral and beholden to no one except parliament. The PM has no jursidiction over the speaker. He could eject Rota from the Liberal party but he would still be the speaker until parliament decided otherwise.

 

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Ya the guy was 95 that was not the issue, the issue was he was an SS Nazi soldier...that has caused an inter national incident....The liberals have had several past issues with not vetting people properly that have caused this nation heart ache in the past.... 

I agree, Justin may be a wingnut , but this was out of his control.

The Liberals have been guilty of sloppiness when it comes to vetting people but this one was not on the government.

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1 minute ago, Aristides said:

No, the speaker is not a government appointee or part of the government, they are chosen and elected by MP's in a secret ballot. The speaker is supposed to be neutral and beholden to no one except parliament. The PM has no jursidiction over the speaker. He could eject Rota from the Liberal party but he would still be the speaker until parliament decided otherwise.

 

The Liberals have been guilty of sloppiness when it comes to vetting people but this one was not on the government.

He is an elected Liberal MP, he knows were his lunch money is coming from....The Liberal party you keep saying that the position is suppose to be free from Political interference... i said the Justice minister position was another example of political interference to a position that is suppose to free of any interference...which was proven false during the SNC incident...and i would not trust it would not happen again...

Do you think the international community is blaming parliament right now or the PM ? and who is going to fix that parliament or the PM.

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4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

He is an elected Liberal MP, he knows were his lunch money is coming from....The Liberal party you keep saying that the position is suppose to be free from Political interference... i said the Justice minister position was another example of political interference to a position that is suppose to free of any interference...which was proven false during the SNC incident...and i would not trust it would not happen again...

Do you think the international community is blaming parliament right now or the PM ? and who is going to fix that parliament or the PM.

He could have been from any party. It is essential that the speaker should be neutral. The Justice Minister is a PM appointee, the PM has nothing to do with choosing the speaker and that is the way it should be. 

The PM can't even invoke party discipline when it comes to voting for the speaker because it is a secret ballot.

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22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

He could have been from any party. It is essential that the speaker should be neutral. The Justice Minister is a PM appointee, the PM has nothing to do with choosing the speaker and that is the way it should be. 

The PM can't even invoke party discipline when it comes to voting for the speaker because it is a secret ballot.

PM can tell his MP's who he wants them to vote for...and with a majority well one does have a certain advantage...

It is also essential that the Justice minster be impartial, but that did not happen... it is hard to envisage trust when it has been broken so many times...

 

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34 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

He is an elected Liberal MP, he knows were his lunch money is coming from....The Liberal party you keep saying that the position is suppose to be free from Political interference... i said the Justice minister position was another example of political interference to a position that is suppose to free of any interference...which was proven false during the SNC incident...and i would not trust it would not happen again...

Do you think the international community is blaming parliament right now or the PM ? and who is going to fix that parliament or the PM.

I'll only say it one more time, the speaker is chosen an elected by parliament in a secret ballot. He is responsible to no one but parliament. The PM has nothing to do with it. The Justice Minister is supposed to be independent but is still a PM appointment, the speaker is not. The PM can appoint and  fire a justice minister, he cannot appoint and fire a speaker. 

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1 minute ago, Aristides said:

I'll only say it one more time, the speaker is chosen an elected by parliament in a secret ballot. He is responsible to no one but parliament. The PM has nothing to do with it. The Justice Minister is supposed to be independent but is still a PM appointment, the speaker is not. The PM can appoint and  fire a justice minister, he cannot appoint and fire a speaker. 

Does not matter how many times you say it, there are a lot of people that operate or suppose to operate free of political interference, and this government has broken that trust already, so i'm sorry but i don't trust anyone one in the liberal cabinet...when it comes to interference.... and if there was a way then i could or did happen...He may not be able to fire him but he can take his riding away, take his membership away, you make it sound like the PM has no influence over his political career

 

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31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Does not matter how many times you say it, there are a lot of people that operate or suppose to operate free of political interference, and this government has broken that trust already, so i'm sorry but i don't trust anyone one in the liberal cabinet...when it comes to interference.... and if there was a way then i could or did happen...He may not be able to fire him but he can take his riding away, take his membership away, you make it sound like the PM has no influence over his political career

 

Do you have a better way? For the last time, the speaker is not part of cabinet, nor does he answer to the cabinet or the PM. He owes his position to parliament, no one else. For a PM to penalize a speaker for not following the party line would be even dumber than the stunt Rota pulled. It would be right up there with Jan 6 and political suicide to anyone but the most rabid partisans.

Trudeau is an ass but this one is not on him.

Edited by Aristides
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3 hours ago, Aristides said:

He could have been from any party. It is essential that the speaker should be neutral. The Justice Minister is a PM appointee, the PM has nothing to do with choosing the speaker and that is the way it should be. 

The PM can't even invoke party discipline when it comes to voting for the speaker because it is a secret ballot.

No, he couldn't.  When was the last time you saw an ndp speaker run? Or when was the last time the greens put one up?

The gov't nominates a speaker and the rest vote to accept them. While it HAS happened that the gov't has asked another party to nominate one (provincially anyway)  the liberals get first crack.


This buisness of suggesting somehow that the speaker is not put forward by the liberals is a laughable lie.  Of course he is. 

What a joke.  The liberal defenders on this board are utterly irredeemable,

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10 hours ago, herbie said:

Dump the shit on Rota's head where it belongs, not Justin's.

So if your employee makes a catastrophic mistake and your biggest clients are irate, you throw your employee under the bus and distance yourself from it like they were never hired by you? Or do you own it, and pressure the employee to resign (or terminate if severe enough) or simply thank the employee for doing the right thing if they chose to be a leader themselves? I don't know, ensuring to smooth it out with your clients, by apologizing for the error?

You hired them. There is nowhere to hide as a leader. You must face the music for the errors your employees make if they get escalated to the point of embarrassing the company.

This is the part of leadership that Trudeau doesn't seem to grasp. You are at the service of others. Meaning, he should humble himself to that fact during the good, the bad and the ugly.

If your employee is incredibly incompetent, it reflects directly onto you.

Sure, its not your fault, but what kind of leader doesn't take ownership for failures within their workplace?

Thats not leadership  and perhaps one of the many reasons why so many want the guy to vacate the position he clearly isn't qualified for.

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12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

PM can tell his MP's who he wants them to vote for...and with a majority well one does have a certain advantage...

It is also essential that the Justice minster be impartial, but that did not happen... it is hard to envisage trust when it has been broken so many times...

 

How can he know how they voted if it is a secret ballot? That's the point of it being secret.

It's one of the few times an MP can vote according to their own conscience.

I agree that the Justice Minister should be impartial and Trudeau was wrong to interfere.

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So if your employee makes a catastrophic mistake and your biggest clients are irate, you throw your employee under the bus and distance yourself from it like they were never hired by you? Or do you own it, and pressure the employee to resign (or terminate if severe enough) or simply thank the employee for doing the right thing if they chose to be a leader themselves? I don't know, ensuring to smooth it out with your clients, by apologizing for the error?

You hired them. There is nowhere to hide as a leader. You must face the music for the errors your employees make if they get escalated to the point of embarrassing the company.

This is the part of leadership that Trudeau doesn't seem to grasp. You are at the service of others. Meaning, he should humble himself to that fact during the good, the bad and the ugly.

If your employee is incredibly incompetent, it reflects directly onto you.

Sure, its not your fault, but what kind of leader doesn't take ownership for failures within their workplace?

Thats not leadership  and perhaps one of the many reasons why so many want the guy to vacate the position he clearly isn't qualified for.

 

The speaker is not the government's employee, he is Parliament's employee. When will that sink in.

Edited by Aristides
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33 minutes ago, Aristides said:

How can he know how they voted if it is a secret ballot? That's the point of it being secret.

By the results.  Your position is rediculous. Of course they know.

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It's one of the few times an MP can vote according to their own conscience.

But NEVER DO.  It just doesn't happen. Whomever the libs want to be speaker will be speaker

 

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The speaker is not the government's employee, he is Parliament's employee. When will that sink in.

The speaker is a liberal CAUCUS member, elected by the liberals, and the liberals are absolutely responsible for his actions.

I hear the libs are considering putting in an NDP speaker to try to smooth things over with Jaggers and prevent the possibility of another mistake.

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15 hours ago, Aristides said:

Do you have a better way? For the last time, the speaker is not part of cabinet, nor does he answer to the cabinet or the PM. He owes his position to parliament, no one else. For a PM to penalize a speaker for not following the party line would be even dumber than the stunt Rota pulled. It would be right up there with Jan 6 and political suicide to anyone but the most rabid partisans.

Trudeau is an ass but this one is not on him.

Early you said that the all the ballets for the speakers position are free from political interference, well here is a comment coming out of the Liberal cabinet below...if this comment is possible that one party, the one with the most seats could infact place or influence whom ever they wanted into the speakers position...

One would have thought that interfering in the SNC case, doing something illegal, over a few jobs, would have been enough to have people change their minds about liberals, but it made very little effect on their power base, and i'm sure messing with the speaker would result in the same thing...in the last 8 years one thing i have learned was liberals voters don't care what their PM does, as long as he is not conservative. They will support him regardless...

I have already agreed with you on Justin is an asshat, and i don't think he had any idea on what happened...yet to be proven but lets assume he is innocent  that being said he is the one that is going to pay for this incident in the polls, and he is the one that is going to have to fix it... 

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One item floated Tuesday that many Liberals didn’t like was the idea of backing New Democrat Carole Hughes as Speaker to shore up NDP support and keep the coalition alive to fight another day.

LILLEY: Trudeau Liberals hold late-night meeting on fighting back (msn.com)

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Many Liberals may not like it but if the NDP and CPC decided to back Hughes, it wouldn't matter because the Liberals are a minority. Those same many Liberals would have no control over how other Liberals vote in a secret ballot.

The speaker is Parliament's animal, it is up to Parliament to fix it. Obviously their vetting system is not adequate.

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