Time to bring back capital punishment for murder of police officers and prison guards

blackbird · September 24, 2023

"

RCMP Const. Rick O'Brien was shot and killed and two officers were injured, while executing a search warrant in Coquitlam, about 30 kilometres east of Vancouver, on Friday morning.

O'Brien, 51, was a decorated constable from the Ridge Meadows detachment and he just recently celebrated seven years of service. He leaves behind a wife and children.

"This is an extremely difficult and tragic day," Deputy Commissioner Dwayne McDonald, the Commanding Officer of the B.C. RCMP, said at a news conference.

"Const. O'Brien led by example. He had a great sense of humour, he was well respected by his peers, and he was loved in his community," McDonald said.

O'Brien succumbed to his injuries at the scene after receiving treatment from first responders, McDonald said.

One officer and the suspect remain in the hospital with non-life threatening injuries. The other officer was treated for minor injuries and released. "

RCMP officer Rick O'Brien dead, 2 officers injured in Coquitlam shooting | CBC News

The number of police being killed in the line of duty has been getting much worse in the past year. Twelve have been killed in the past year in Canada. We need to protect our police officers and prison guards. They are putting their lives on the line in a difficult job and we need to do everything possible to protect them. Capital punishment for killing them might go a good way to helping them. Obviously the existing lenient system is not working. An offender killed two people in the Fraser Valley just over a week ago and he was released on bail. Unbelievable how dysfunctional our justice system has become.

TreeBeard · September 24, 2023

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Obviously the existing lenient system is not working.

If the death penalty works to deter crime, why does the USA have such a high murder rate?

August1991 · September 24, 2023

We send soldiers to kill other people - even innocent civilians.

Why not allow the State to kill prisoners?

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In Canada, we allow women to kill children in the womb.

What's the difference between abortion and capital punishment?

August1991 · September 24, 2023

The difference?

It may change behaviour.

Aristides · September 24, 2023

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

The difference?

It may change behaviour.

I doubt it. Killing a police officer is an automatic first degree murder charge.

August1991 · September 24, 2023

20 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I doubt it. Killing a police officer is an automatic first degree murder charge.

Good point.

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But as a card in the charge - it may change the negotiation.

Aristides · September 24, 2023

2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Good point.

====

But as a card in the charge - it may change the negotiation.

Proof of premeditation is not a requirement for conviction of first degree when it comes to murdering a police officer.

Aristides · September 24, 2023

Two hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon to execute people for simple theft. It didn't stop people from stealing.

Nexii · September 24, 2023

I don't think it's much of a deterrant. But it is justice

August1991 · September 24, 2023

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Proof of premeditation is not a requirement for conviction of first degree when it comes to murdering a police officer.

You misunderstand me.

I have no objection to abortion: in my view, a woman should have the right to end her pregnancy.

TreeBeard · September 24, 2023

55 minutes ago, August1991 said:

What's the difference between abortion and capital punishment?

You really don’t know?

blackbird · September 24, 2023

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

If the death penalty works to deter crime, why does the USA have such a high murder rate?

Because it is a completely different type of country. Everyone has guns. It is a constitutional right in the U.S. for everyone to own guns, including handguns and assault rifles. Actually more guns than people and there are lots of cities full of criminals and large areas of poverty.

Edited September 24, 2023 by blackbird

August1991 · September 24, 2023

27 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You really don’t know?

Abortion and capital punishment. Soldiers killing people.

To me, all the same: the State condones death.

======

What is the point?

I object to death and destruction.

Moonlight Graham · September 24, 2023

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

If the death penalty works to deter crime, why does the USA have such a high murder rate?

The homicide rate in Canada jumped when the Trudeau Liberals were elected LOL. Possibly just a coincidence, but maybe not....

TreeBeard · September 24, 2023

44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Because it is a completely different type of country. Everyone has guns. It is a constitutional right in the U.S. for everyone to own guns, including handguns and assault rifles. Actually more guns than people and there are lots of cities full of criminals and large areas of poverty.

So, the death penalty doesn’t deter murders, does it?

Moonlight Graham · September 24, 2023

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

We send soldiers to kill other people - even innocent civilians.

Why not allow the State to kill prisoners?

====

In Canada, we allow women to kill children in the womb.

What's the difference between abortion and capital punishment?

If progressives had to feed and clothe a prisoner in their own house for 18 years they'd support capital punishment.

blackbird · September 24, 2023

24 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So, the death penalty doesn’t deter murders, does it?

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. Yes, I think it deters murders. Not all states have it. One thing is absolutely true. The same murderer will not be doing it again. Obviously it sends a message. You know what will happen if you get caught.

CdnFox · September 24, 2023

2 hours ago, August1991 said:

We send soldiers to kill other people - even innocent civilians.

Why not allow the State to kill prisoners?

====

In Canada, we allow women to kill children in the womb.

What's the difference between abortion and capital punishment?

Because it's bad enough that they kill OTHER countries people - the last thing we need is for them to have the ability to kill us, especially before voting day

35 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If progressives had to feed and clothe a prisoner in their own house for 18 years they'd support capital punishment.

If they had to pay the bills for capital punishment they'd go right back to feeding and clothing. Every state agrees capital punishment is fare more expensive than incarceration.

CdnFox · September 24, 2023

It's one thing if we decide to lock people up for life no parole ever. That's something we should do,

But at least then if its discovered that the police lied, or the state lied or there was a miscarrage of justice which has happened MANY MANY times, then it can still be undone. But if you let the state kill it's citizens sooner or later it kills innocent people and that's just not ok

Anyone who feels differently is welcome to get killed first,

TreeBeard · September 25, 2023

20 hours ago, blackbird said:

Yes, I think it deters murders.

Any evidence of that claim?

Aristides · September 25, 2023

If you look at US states with and without capital punishment, in general there isn't much difference in homicide rates.

eyeball · September 25, 2023

22 hours ago, Nexii said:

I don't think it's much of a deterrant. But it is justice

It seems more like vengeance.

CdnFox · September 25, 2023

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

If you look at US states with and without capital punishment, in general there isn't much difference in homicide rates.

There actually has been a fair body of study on this. I've read a fair bit of it

Unless something changed somewhere the evidence is pretty clear that it does not deter people more that life in prison does by any measurable amount. And there are many reasons why.

So this would be one of those ultra-rare one in a million cases where you happen to be right for a change savor the moment.

blackbird · September 25, 2023

32 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Any evidence of that claim?

It may deter some types of murder but I don't know of any statistics that say one way or another. I happen to believe statistics should not be the deciding factor.

I simply believe it should be a part of a just criminal justice system. It's as simple as that.

If it was well known what the punishment is, there may be some cases where a person would think twice before committing murder.

The point is justice must be satisfied. Allowing a murderer to live at enormous taxpayer's expense makes no sense from the cost point of view. Then there is the added risk that the murderer will re-offend in prison or when he gets out. This is another thing that should be considered. The safety of society comes first.

So whether it is a deterrent or not should be irrelevant. The important thing is it is justice and justice must be the goal or purpose of government and the justice system.

blackbird · September 25, 2023

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It seems more like vengeance.

You can call it vengeance if you like. That sounds like you don't believe someone should pay for their serious crime of taking someone else's life. But it is justice. When God said in his word (Genesis 9:6) that a murderer should in effect be executed, I would ask you why does it say that? What is punishment? Do you believe in punishment for evil, including murder? Or should nobody be punished for murder because somebody might call it vengeance?

What is the difference between punishment, justice, and vengeance? If someone killed one of your parents or siblings or wife, how would you feel about that if they were able to carry on their life without punishment. What is just punishment? What is a life worth? These are questions that come to mind.