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Time to bring back capital punishment for murder of police officers and prison guards


blackbird

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6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It may deter some types of murder but I don't know of any statistics that say  one way or another.  I happen to believe statistics should not be the deciding factor.

I simply believe it should be a part of a just criminal justice system.  It's as simple as that.  

 

How is killing innocent people "Just'?  Even in the states, with all the protections, they admit that does happen from time to time.

And because they try to avoid it as much as possible the burden of proof in capital cases is so much higher that a lot of bad guys tend to walk.  SO - your "justice" lets more bad guys out on the street.

Its a nice idea. I have no problem with killing murderers and rapists or the like.  But - in reality it's not justice at all

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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What is the difference between punishment, justice, and vengeance?

One seeks to correct bad behavior  Obviously capital punishment is not 'punishment' because they're not going to learn from it, they're dead.

THe next is an attempt to balance a wrong.  Which is why it's represented by the scales. A wrong occured, now we're looking for a way to balance those books as much as possible to make things 'fair' again.  You might say capital punishment is justice - the person took a life now their life is taken - the scales move towards balance, But - there's problems with that as i noted previously - ite tends to let bad guys go free which tips the scales again

Vengence is where you want to hurt someone else because you got hurt. Understandable, if someone punches you then you don't care why, you usually want to hurt them back. IT's not concerned with 'balance' tho - just inflicting suffering on someone who made you suffer, and usually MORE than they did.

Hope that clears that up.

Capital punishment isn't a very good tool for ANY of those things,

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2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But - in reality it's not justice at all

I disagree.  I believe the laws and justice system should be designed in such a way to ensure nobody is wrongfully convicted.  It's as simple as that.  I do not believe murderers should get away with their crime.  What is a human life worth?  Guess it depends on who's life one is talking about.  I happen to think life is priceless.  Nobody should get away with murder and get x number of years and then get out.  That is not justice.

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5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You can call it vengeance if you like.  That sounds like you don't believe someone should pay for their serious crime of taking someone else's life.  But it is justice.  When God said in his word (Genesis 9:6) that a murderer should in effect be executed, I would ask you why does it say that? 

God also said to kill gay men.  
 

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, 
both of them have committed an abomination;

they shall be put to death; 
their blood is upon them.”

— Leviticus 20:13


 

 

Are you in favour of killing gay people?

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Just now, CdnFox said:

One seeks to correct bad behavior  Obviously capital punishment is not 'punishment' because they're not going to learn from it, they're dead.

Wrong.  The primary purpose of the criminal justice system should not be "to correct bad behavior".  That is a part of liberal ideology.  That is why the justice system is a total mess and why dangerous offenders are released onto the streets immediately after they are arrested now.  

No.  The primary purpose of the justice system has to be justice which means punishment and for murder that has to include capital punishment.  If someone who commits a lesser crime can be rehabilitated along the way as well as receive just punishment, that is fine.  As long as it doesn't eliminate justice and become strictly a rehabilitation issue.  That is not justice.  

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3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

God also said to kill gay men.  
 

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, 
both of them have committed an abomination;

they shall be put to death; 
their blood is upon them.”

— Leviticus 20:13


 

 

Are you in favour of killing gay people?

No.  That particular law was a part of the laws that only applied to Israel at that particular time in history.  They do not apply today.  Same with other laws at that time that only applied to Israel such as not working on the Sabbath and not eating certain foods.  Those don't apply today.  The statement about capital punishment in Genesis 9:6 was not directed to Israel because Israel did not even exist at that time.  Also Romans ch13 which talks about the sword for evil doers would seem to apply today because that is part of the New Testament era which began 2,000 years ago.

 

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10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You might say capital punishment is justice - the person took a life now their life is taken - the scales move towards balance, But - there's problems with that as i noted previously - ite tends to let bad guys go free which tips the scales again

I never said I condoned a system where bad guys go free or an innocent person is punished or executed.  That's not what I would condone.   Let's be clear, I am not talking about a justice system which makes errors.  I am talking about the ideal system that it is up to government to create where justice is applied correctly in all cases.  If the current system is faulty, that should be fixed.

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4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Wrong.  The primary purpose of the criminal justice system should not be "to correct bad behavior".

Sigh,  You didn't ask what the purpose of the justice system was.  You asked what punishment was.

I gave you the definition of punishment. Which is what you asked for

Every now and then i pretend you are NOT a jackass with zero intelligence and a personality similar to that of a green slug and treat you like a real person instead of the loser puppet you are and answer your questions honestly and directly and clearly.

 I would appreciate it if when that happens you don't spit in my face with stupidity that rivals that of a particularly dumb rabid chihuahua in return,.

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3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sigh,  You didn't ask what the purpose of the justice system was.  You asked what punishment was.

I gave you the definition of punishment. Which is what you asked for

Every now and then i pretend you are NOT a jackass with zero intelligence and a personality similar to that of a green slug and treat you like a real person instead of the loser puppet you are and answer your questions honestly and directly and clearly.

 I would appreciate it if when that happens you don't spit in my face with stupidity that rivals that of a particularly dumb rabid chihuahua in return,.

I understand how you can't control yourself and have to resort to insults.  If that's all you've got you have nothing worth reading or paying attention to.  Good night.

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5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I understand how you can't control yourself and have to resort to insults.  If that's all you've got you have nothing worth reading or paying attention to.  Good night.

I understand you're a  loser who insults his betters when he realizes he's in the wrong and screwed up. I understand you have no respect for honest discussion and your comprehension skills are miniscule which is why you need to try to justify every thought you have with a fictional storybook.

You're trash. Good night,

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quote

A Story of Compassion and Resilience.

A man saw a snake being burned to death and decided to take it out of the fire. When he did, the snake bit him causing excruciating pain. The man dropped the snake, and the reptile fell right back into the fire.

So, the man looked around and found a metal pole and used it to take the snake out of the fire, saving its life.

Someone who was watching approached the man and said: “That snake bit you. Why are you still trying to save it?”

The man replied: “The nature of the snake is to bite, but that's not going to change my nature, which is to help.”

Do not change your nature simply because someone harms you. Do not lose your good heart, but learn to take precautions.   unquote

"Snakes (or serpents) get plenty of attention in the Bible, which mentions them over 80 times. Snakes show up in Pharaoh’s court (Exodus 7:12), in the wilderness (Numbers 21:7), on the island of Malta (Acts 28:3), and, of course, in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:1). They are almost always pictured as loathsome creatures, associated with poison and craftiness. As amoral creatures, snakes are not “evil” in themselves—but they are a handy metaphor for evil in many passages."

What does the Bible say about snakes? Are snakes evil? | GotQuestions.org

One can choose to be an evil snake or follow Christ.  That is individual choice.

 

biting snake.jpg

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Also Romans ch13 which talks about the sword for evil doers would seem to apply today because that is part of the New Testament era which began 2,000 years ago.

13:6 says to pay your taxes because Trudeau is God’s servant. 
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.

Do you believe Trudeau isa servant of God?

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

13:6 says to pay your taxes because Trudeau is God’s servant. 
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.

Do you believe Trudeau isa servant of God?

That is what Romans 13 says.  Should we respect him as PM?  Yes.  That is how our democratic system works.  We must respect him as the PM.  That does not mean we must agree with everything he says or does.  He is the leader and Romans ch13 says we are subject to the authorities.  

You are a kind of trickster always looking for a way to trip someone, wouldn't you say.  It appears you do not believe or accept the Bible, but use parts of it when you find it convenient.

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10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That is what Romans 13 says.

Do you believe Trudeau is a servant of God, like the bible says?

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are a kind of trickster always looking for a way to trip someone, wouldn't you say.

I asked a straightforward question, based on biblical verses.  There was no trickery.  You didn’t answer the question.  Who is the real trickster….?

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

…but use parts of it when you find it convenient.

This is exactly what you do….  You love revenge, so ignore everything Jesus said in the New Testament and reached back to the OT to justify your anti-Jesus opinion on the death penalty.  
 

What did Jesus say about the death penalty?

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On 9/23/2023 at 7:35 PM, August1991 said:

In Canada, we allow women to kill children in the womb.

You'd probably kill the woman if you tried to put a child back in the womb. If a woman actually manage ro shove a child back up there and killed it, she'd be definitely guilty of murder.

But on the subject cops & screws are not more valuable than you or the kid flipping your burger. Shouldn't need to explain that to you. Or that you're dredging up something rejected 50 years ago.

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29 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Do you believe Trudeau is a servant of God, like the bible says?

I asked a straightforward question, based on biblical verses.  There was no trickery.  You didn’t answer the question.  Who is the real trickster….?

This is exactly what you do….  You love revenge, so ignore everything Jesus said in the New Testament and reached back to the OT to justify your anti-Jesus opinion on the death penalty.  
 

What did Jesus say about the death penalty?

I accept the PM is a servant of God but that does not mean he is doing the will of God.  He holds the position of PM.  But what exactly the word servant means in that context, I think it would have to be analyzed and broken down a bit.  I do not believe it means we are to blindly follow everything he believes or says.  What do you believe about it?

I told you what Romans ch13 and Genesis 9:6 says.  Genesis 9:6 supports capital punishment and Romans 13 says authorities use the sword.  Remember Jesus Christ is the word and the word is God.  See John 1:1 "1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. "  John 1:14 KJV   So the word is God in verse 1 and in verse 14 the word was made flesh (which is Jesus Christ) and dwelt among us.  Since God inspired men to write the whole Bible, that means the Bible is also written by Jesus Christ, who is both the Son of God and God.  That means that God (the trinity) are in agreement and God inspired men to write the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.  

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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

So does your bible say anything about paying your taxes?

Of course.  Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.  We know the state must provide certain essential things for society.  We need roads, infrastructure, police, ambulances, hospitals, water systems, sewers, etc.   But do you believe there is no limit to how much of a person's hard-earned money and property a state can take from an individual to spread it around?  When does it become stealing?  Is Communism stealing do you think?  Therefore is Communism or Socialism evil?  Are you OK with the state taking everything an individual has and redistributing it to those who did not earn it?

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25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Of course.  Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.  We know the state must provide certain essential things for society.  We need roads, infrastructure, police, ambulances, hospitals, water systems, sewers, etc.   But do you believe there is no limit to how much of a person's hard-earned money and property a state can take from an individual to spread it around?  When does it become stealing?  Is Communism stealing do you think?  Therefore is Communism or Socialism evil?  Are you OK with the state taking everything an individual has and redistributing it to those who did not earn it?

How much does the bible recommend to pay?

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

So does your bible say anything about paying your taxes?

Here is a more in-depth article on the subject.   First we agree that a certain amount of government services and taxes are required to provide basic services which I mentioned.  But Canada and the U.S. are what is called quasi-Socialist.  They are not full Socialist countries, but they are Socialist in certain respects and to varying degrees.

"Socialism is more than impossible or inefficient. Socialism is immoral because it is government-sanctioned theft."

This article explains what we have and what is wrong with Socialism.

The Bible Prohibits Socialism — Knowing Scripture

"All Forms of Socialism Are Theft

Central to the moral argument against socialism and quasi-socialism is the 8th commandment: 

You shall not steal (Exodus 20:15; Deuteronomy 5:19).

This command teaches the concept of private property and forbids the taking of property from an innocent person. God added to this condemnation of socialism by prohibiting envy in the 10th commandment:

You shall not covet (Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21).  

God is a capitalist, which we know because God endorses private property. This is inferred from the 8th commandment. The prohibition of theft assumes that people own things. Of course, everything in this world belongs to God. Yet He has delegated control and responsibility of things to individuals. We call this private property rights.

Everyone understands this concept. No one likes others stealing their belongings, and they therefore do things to prevent theft, such as lock their door at night. It is also the case that every civilized society prohibits theft. People have property rights, and the government should protect such rights.

Yet this all breaks down for many people when the government gets involved. It is wrong for Bob to take a quarter of your income. But if Bob and his friends lobby the government, politicians pass legislation, and the government gives one quarter of your money to Bob, then all is right.

This is exactly how the typical Western welfare state works. The government enacts a variety of taxes (sales tax, income tax, FICA, tariffs, etc.) and then redistributes the money to a variety of classes (the poor, students, elderly, disabled, politically well-connected, etc.). But this is not called “theft” because, well, the government says so. This situation exposes one of the chief flaws of democracy, a system where two wolves and a lamb vote on what to eat for dinner.

Thus, modern societies have made an exception to the 8th commandment—“You shall not steal, except by majority vote.” One person cannot take your stuff, but if enough people vote to take your stuff, then it is “legal.” And if it is legal, then it is morally acceptable.

Christians are enabling this problem by limiting the 8th commandment to individuals instead of societies. However, the 8th commandment provides no such limitation. Groups are made up of individuals, and stealing is still stealing when done by a group."

This is one reason why the Bible is so important and everyone should understand and respect it as God's word.  Without the Bible, anyone can justify anything just as Hitler, Stalin, and Chairman Mao did and just as many politicians are doing today in the world.  But the underlying fact is the Bible is not just another book, it's contents prove it came from God and therefore should be given the highest respect.

 

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In a quasi-Socialist state like Canada, many politicians and people believe government's job is to provide everything a person needs to live on.  It is no longer universally believed that each individual must work and provide for themselves.  It is becoming more and more the state's responsibility.  Along with this idea, is, since the state is responsible for everything for everyone, no individual is completely responsible for his own actions.  Every action or crime of an individual is somehow society's fault.  Therefore much of society and government believe since nothing is completely the individual's fault, nobody should receive capital punishment for murder.  According to liberal ideology, criminals are not completely responsible for their actions; it is society's fault. This is what happens when society drifts away from God and his written revelation to man.  There is no escaping this fact.

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2 hours ago, blackbird said:

But do you believe there is no limit to how much of a person's hard-earned money and property a state can take from an individual to spread it around?  When does it become stealing?  Is Communism stealing do you think?

What does the bible say about limits on Caesar? Communism isn't even in the bible although I've heard it said that Jesus was a commie.

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