Trudeau says intelligence shows India was behind slaying of Sikh leader in Surrey, B.C.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It exists, for sure, but India is a sovereign country with decisions of teir own to make and they just made one. Good for them for having the balls to do something about terrorism.

So - some people think that PP is a terrorist. You can actually find that out there.  So you're fine if some other country decides to bump him off?

Here's the thing dude - either soverignty exists or it doesn't. You say it doesn't - that other people should be allowed to come to our country and break our laws and kill our people.   you cannot say it exists and then say that's ok.  Sorry.

Either we have sovereignty or we don't.  It's like being 'sort of' pregnant - you are or you aren't.   if we do have it then anyone who does that needs to be bombed in retaliation.  If we don't then we don't, but don't whine when other people decide to flock here and such because they don't recognize our rights to our own country.

You can't have it both ways. it's just that simple.

[WestCanMan]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They state their intent and declare war.  And they hardly do it 'all the time'.

If india wants to say 'turn him over or we'll declare war' then fair beans.  But just sneaking over and killing canadian citizens is not the same as going after bin laden or hussein after clearly stating intentions to do so and clearing it with the UN,

The US has done 14,000 drone strikes in the countries on the chart I posted plus God knows how many in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere. 

"Sneaking over and killing Canadian citizens" [one terrorist leader] is better than drone strikes that kill innocent people, destroy infrastructure and terrorize the general population. 

If I knew the whereabouts of a terrorist leader that India was looking for I'd definitely tip them off. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

The US has done 14,000 drone strikes in the countries on the chart I posted plus God knows how many in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere. 

So what?  IF they did it here i'd complain. Also - they went to war with those countries or entered into armed conflict and declared their intents.

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Sneaking over and killing Canadian citizens" [one terrorist leader] is better than drone strikes that kill innocent people, destroy infrastructure and terrorize the general population. 

No it isn't. And pretending he wasn't a citizen doesn't make it better.

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If I knew the whereabouts of a terrorist leader that India was looking for I'd definitely tip them off. 

That makes you a terrorist.  Where are you right now exactly?   

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So - some people think that PP is a terrorist. You can actually find that out there.  So you're fine if some other country decides to bump him off?

Here's the thing dude - either soverignty exists or it doesn't. You say it doesn't - that other people should be allowed to come to our country and break our laws and kill our people.   you cannot say it exists and then say that's ok.  Sorry.

Either we have sovereignty or we don't.  It's like being 'sort of' pregnant - you are or you aren't.   if we do have it then anyone who does that needs to be bombed in retaliation.  If we don't then we don't, but don't whine when other people decide to flock here and such because they don't recognize our rights to our own country.

You can't have it both ways. it's just that simple.

1) Who is this 'PP' that you're referring to?

2) Nijjar is an actual leader of an actual terrorist group, he's not just someone who accused of being a terrorist by loonies. 

3) Sure, we have sovereignty, I get it 100%.

We are a sovereign nation that harbours terrorists and we're being treated as such. Do you get it?

We just got a little spanking. It gets worse from here, not better, and India isn't our biggest problem. We are our own biggest problem. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by WestCanMan

[SpankyMcFarland]

33 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The US has done 14,000 drone strikes in the countries on the chart I posted plus God knows how many in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere. 

"Sneaking over and killing Canadian citizens" [one terrorist leader] is better than drone strikes that kill innocent people, destroy infrastructure and terrorize the general population. 

If I knew the whereabouts of a terrorist leader that India was looking for I'd definitely tip them off. 

One is surely not enough, though. Give us a ballpark figure of how many you’d like to see in Canada per annum. Perhaps we could schedule these events at the weekends to avoid any unnecessary disruption?

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[WestCanMan]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So what?  IF they did it here i'd complain. Also - they went to war with those countries or entered into armed conflict and declared their intents.

No it isn't. And pretending he wasn't a citizen doesn't make it better.

That makes you a terrorist.  Where are you right now exactly?   

I didn't mean to suggest that he isn't a citizen there, I just did that to provide a far more pertinent description of him than you did.

Kenny from Tim Hortons is a Canadian citizen. So is Kathy from the bank by where you live. Little Johnny and Jamal in pre-school are also Canadian citizens. And no one is trying to kill them, except for maybe actual terrorists, like the guy that the Indian gov't just wasted.  

If someone kills an actual Canadian, who is just going about their business and not trying to get a genocide started in a foreign country, I'll take umbrage to that. I promise. 

FWIW one could describe Ayman al-Zawahiri as an "Egyptian citizen" if they wanted to, but he wasn't killed for being an Egyptian citizen - he was killed for being a terrorist leader. I don't think most Egyptians want to be associated with him. 

Should the Egyptian gov't have shook their fists after he was killed? He didn't get a trial, right?

If a Canadian citizen is a victim of an extrajudicial killing by the Zimbabwe gov't while that person is in Krispy Kreme in a Delaware, isn't that also acting against our sovereignty? Was Egypt slapped in the face when Ayman al-Zawahiri was killed? 

Call me crazy, I just don't give a crap. 

Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

One is surely not enough, though. Give us a ballpark figure of how many you’d like to see in Canada per annum. Perhaps we could schedule these vents at the weekends to avoid any unnecessary disruption?

You tell me how many terrorist leaders there are in Canada, and I'll tell you how many people I want the gov't of India to waste. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

An article from 2013:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/12/narendra-modi-the-man-most-likely-to-be-india-s-next-prime-minister-is-banned-from-traveling-to-america.html

Narendra Modi, PM of India, was banned from traveling to the US during the Bush administration and was on a terrorist watchlist.

Talk about irony.

I notice those defending this killing, like Terry Glavin at the NP, don’t spend too much on Modi’s history of targeting minorities and dissidents in his own country. It’s an ugly record. The label ‘world’s biggest democracy’ deserves an asterisk.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

What’s also conspicuous in the statements made by Indian officials is no condemnation of the event which really saps their credibility. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You tell me how many terrorist leaders there are in Canada, and I'll tell you how many people I want the gov't of India to waste. 

Excellent, although Mr. Modi may have a lengthy list in mind. I presume it’s not just India you’d like to help in this regard? Can other countries ‘take out’ people they claim to be terrorists here too? Seems only fair. And why let foreigners have all the fun? I’m sure there are many of us Canadians who just know we’ve found a terrorist or two in our community. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[WestCanMan]

20 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I notice those defending this killing, like Terry Glavin at the NP, don’t spend too much on Modi’s history of targeting minorities and dissidents in his own country. It’s an ugly record. The label ‘world’s biggest democracy’ deserves an asterisk.  

Name me a 'democracy' that doesn't deserve an asterisk now. 

90% chance that you need to board a plane to get to one from where you are right now. 

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Excellent, although Mr. Modi may have a lengthy list in mind. I presume it’s not just India you’d like to help in this regard? Can other countries ‘take out’ people they claim to be terrorists here too? Seems only fair. And why let foreigners have all the fun? I’m sure there are many of us Canadians who just know we’ve found a terrorist or two in our community. 

Maybe you missed this part:

Quote

As per a statement from the World Sikh Organization, Nijjar was a supporter of the creation of a separate Sikh homeland, known as Khalistan, and was associated with several Khalistani outfits in Canada, like the Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), and later became the head of Khalistan Tiger Force (KTF).

This isn't a case of other countries arbitrarily creating their own terrorist accusation list, as you're suggesting, and then summarily executing everyone on their list. 

The World Sikh Org said that he's the leader of the KTF. Did he deny it? If he did, I never saw where he did that. The KTF

Quote

In February 2023, the Indian Government banned KTF on the grounds of it being a militant outfit that aims at reviving terrorism in Punjab and challenges the territorial integrity, unity, national security and sovereignty of India and promotes various acts of terrorism, including targeted killings in Punjab.^[15]

 That's sedition in case any leftards were wondering. It can also be called treason. 

 

Yup, it's a terrorist org, and Nijjar was the leader of it:

Quote

Khalistan Tiger Force (KTF) was formed by Jagtar Singh Tara, a former Babbar Khalsa International, another military organisation. Tara is currently serving a life sentence in India for his involvement in the assassination of former Punjab Chief Minister Beant Singh in 1995. 

Quote

^[8] KTF is backed by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).^[9] 

What a bunch of swell guys... 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm saying that the US kills terrorists in other sovereign states all the time and we celebrate it. It's pretty hypocritical if we wanna cry about India killing terrorists here just because we are too lazy/stupid to take care of them ourselves. 

I agree , we were once known as a terrorist safe haven, and i don't really think things have changed much...can you imigine what Canadians would do if they found out we were killing bad people here in Canada....i mean we are blissfully unaware of what our SF guys do overseas, they work hand in hand with US forces....we have blood on our hands as well... as do most nations...I wonder what would happen if Omar was to suddenly turn up tits up...

 

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

These are complicated issues. I understand the sentiment, but the US did the same thing with Bin Laden in Pakistan.

We need to to know exactly what happened here and what this guy did.  To what extent did this guy threaten India?  Was he really training young Sikh separatist militants in BC as India claims?  Was he helping to fund terrorism in India?  Or was he a peaceful protestor?  Why did India suddenly murder this man after 25 years in Canada?  What changed?

If he was just a peaceful political nuisance then what India did was abhorrent.  If he was indeed a terrorist and a security threat to India it's more understandable, especially if the Trudeau gov failed to act on India's behalf.

And was he really a Canadian citizen?  Was he here illegally?  To what extent do we owe him our protection based on his legal status.  We need to know more details about many things here.  But I doubt we will ever know the truth, everyone will say whatever makes them look better.

The US didn't deny going after Bin Laden, they made a point of it.

Foreign governments to do not get to kill people on Canadian soil whether they are citizens or not.

If you are going to play that kind of whataboutism, Iran was justified in going after Salman Rushdie in the UK or US.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

1) Who is this 'PP' that you're referring to?

You're kidding right? You've never heard of Pierre Polievre?

Quote

2) Nijjar is an actual leader of an actual terrorist group, he's not just someone who accused of being a terrorist by loonies. 

So have canada arrest him, or make peace with the fact he's outside of your influence.

Quote

3) Sure, we have sovereignty, I get it 100%.

Then this is unacceptable. There's no two ways. It's just that simple.

Quote

We are a sovereign nation that harbours terrorists and we're being treated as such. Do you get it?

IF that's your position as a country you declare war on that country that harbours terrorists.

Get it?

 

Quote

We just got a little spanking. It gets worse from here, not better, and India isn't our biggest problem. We are our own biggest problem. 

Then we should treat it as an act of hostility appropriately, sever all ties with india, and look at retaliation.  Geez - were you this quick to sell us out to the chnese when then influenced our elections?

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

The US didn't deny going after Bin Laden, they made a point of it.

Foreign governments to do not get to kill people on Canadian soil whether they are citizens or not.

If you are going to play that kind of whataboutism, Iran was justified in going after Salman Rushdie in the UK or US.

No, there's a difference between if Salman Rushdie was critical of a regime using peaceful protest speech versus if he was involved in terrorist activity against Iran and the US would do nothing about it.  One is dissenting speech and the other is an act of war.  I can't see any country sitting around and doing nothing if a person in a foreign country was organizing terrorist violence against them.

The problem is we don't really know which one applies here, but if I had to guess I'd give Canada the benefit of the doubt over India.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No, there's a difference between if Salman Rushdie was critical of a regime using peaceful protest speech

You mean he was inciting violence and organizing a revolt.

Sorry - everyone's got their own perspective.  This is a very simple thing. We have sovereignty and we don't let others kill our citizens on our own soil.. or we don't.

Now - are you with the liberal types who believe in no soverignty and open borders etc or do you believe canada is a sovereign nation with the right to self determination and to say what is and is not lawful in it's borders.  There simply is no in between

[SpankyMcFarland]

26 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No, there's a difference between if Salman Rushdie was critical of a regime using peaceful protest speech versus if he was involved in terrorist activity against Iran and the US would do nothing about it.  One is dissenting speech and the other is an act of war.  I can't see any country sitting around and doing nothing if a person in a foreign country was organizing terrorist violence against them.

There’s a lot of grey. All over the world, opponents of governments are being labelled terrorists even if they don’t do anything violent themselves or direct any violence. Just google what dissidents, opposition politicians, basically anybody Erdogan doesn’t like the look of in Turkey go through or advocates for the poor in the likes of India. Say Salman Rushdie was advocating for a new country for Indian atheists and Modi had him killed in Canada for it. Would that be justified? 

The last line you have there is troubling. Insurgencies often spill over borders.  If we allow extraterritorial assassinations of this sort we can say goodbye to Canada as we know it.,
 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

I think the US set a bad precedent with its drone assassination program which is now coming back to our door. The basic point is that we all must respect the sovereignty of other countries and think long and hard before killing people on their soil. If not, absolute chaos will ensue. We can argue about whether Nijjar was a terrorist but if the Indians killed him they certainly are. I need hardly add that if Trudeau’s allegations are proven false he must resign.

Edited September 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

What’s also conspicuous in the statements made by Indian officials is no condemnation of the event which really saps their credibility. 

Yea I noticed this. Saying he deserved it isn't exactly making me feel they're innocent

What is Canadian law regarding inciting international terrorism? We're pretty harsh on international sex tourism, I don't see why commiting crimes abroad is really all that different than on Canadian soil

[Moonlight Graham]

42 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There’s a lot of grey. All over the world, opponents of governments are being labelled terrorists even if they don’t do anything violent themselves or direct any violence. Just google what dissidents, opposition politicians, basically anybody Erdogan doesn’t like the look of in Turkey go through or advocates for the poor in the likes of India. Say Salman Rushdie was advocating for a new country for Indian atheists and Modi had him killed in Canada for it. Would that be justified? 

The last line you have there is troubling. Insurgencies often spill over borders.  If we allow extraterritorial assassinations of this sort we can say goodbye to Canada as we know it.,
 

Yes I agree that India could be lying about this guy and smearing him with false accusations of being a terrorist because he is a threat to them politically.  I'm not saying we should allow any killings by foreign agents in our country.  Yes it is a breach of our sovereignty and should be investigated.  But my level of outrage towards it will differ depending on the context.

[betsy]

17 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

His immigration travails are irrelevant. On the terrorism accusation, that’s harder to determine. However, India has imprisoned many critics of its brutal, sectarian, casteist  regime who are clearly not terrorists at all. 

https://www.article-14.com/post/the-sudha-bharadwaj-the-govt-doesn-t-want-you-to-know

If he isn’t a terrorist as we understand it, India could still regard him as such because he is a separatist. Imagine if the UK assassinated Canadians who believed in an independent Scotland or Wales? 

We have a problem with Sikh militancy but what India has done to combat it is utterly outrageous. Canada is a testing ground for illiberal regimes. They try out policies here they may then go on to use against bigger fish, ultimately the US. Like the tyrants of the Arab world, demagogues like Modi and Erdogan hate our pluralistic, tolerant system of government.

 

 

Irrelevant!  Unless you want to declare war on India, based on all that!  

We've been a haven for terrorists (usual target being the USA)  - that's a fact!

 

According to Global news!

 

He was accused of being involved in the 2007 bombing of a cinema in Punjab. A 2016 Interpol notice against him alleged he was a “key conspirator” in the attack. He was accused of recruiting and fundraising, a charge that Nijjar vehemently denied.

 

 

My point:

  if a Canadian citizen is interfering in any way to the politics in other countries, and Canada protects them - wouldn't  that constitute to the same thing we're complaining about:  FOREIGN INTERFERENCE.

 

Except that this time, we are the ones doing it?

 

There could be more to this than meets the eye. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by betsy

[betsy]

Let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions. 

For all we know, this is another distraction! 

Getting the whole nation to jump on board and stand behind TRUDEAU.........against INDIA's government. 

 

Lol - forget the inflation now even larger.   forget the housing crisis, etc..,  This thing with India could very well dominate the news for quite a while.   It gives the Trudeau media  something to turn the page with.

Edited September 20, 2023 by betsy

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No, there's a difference between if Salman Rushdie was critical of a regime using peaceful protest speech versus if he was involved in terrorist activity against Iran and the US would do nothing about it.  One is dissenting speech and the other is an act of war.  I can't see any country sitting around and doing nothing if a person in a foreign country was organizing terrorist violence against them.

The problem is we don't really know which one applies here, but if I had to guess I'd give Canada the benefit of the doubt over India.

There is no difference to the killers. You want to let them make the rules over who lives and dies in Canada?

We don’t have capital punishment but you are welcome to come here and kill anyone you think has wronged you?

[betsy]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

There is no difference to the killers. You want to let them make the rules over who lives and dies in Canada?

We don’t have capital punishment but you are welcome to come here and kill anyone you think has wronged you?

 

 

No, you're not welcome here to kill anyone who has wronged you.

But it should be that our citizens are not FREE to commit terrorisms in other countries. 

 

If Canada does an injustice by protecting terrorists - then I think victims of terrorisms, can exact their own kind of justice.  :shrug:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by betsy

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

 

No, you're not welcome here to kill anyone who has wronged you.

But it should be that our citizens are not FREE to commit terrorisms in other countries. 

 

If Canada does an injustice by protecting terrorists - then I think victims of terrorisms, can exact their own kind of justice.  :shrug:

 

 

 

 

We have an extradition treaty with India but like with the US, we will not extradite someone to be executed.

All we know for sure about Nijjer is that he was promoting a referendum on independence, the terrorism accusations are just that.