Bill Clinton’s Global Capitalism Is Responsible for Today’s Problems

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Rebound said:

Now you’re a US oil expert.  
Russia invaded Ukraine. Trump would have surrendered Ukraine to Putin. Biden did not. 
 

You give one country to a dictator, next thing you know he invaded you. Soft on the Ukraine invasion would embolden China to attack Taiwan, which Trump would probably also allow. Biden recognized this vulnerability and passed the CHIPs Act, to keep us safe in case this happens. Trump thinks chips are casino currency. 

Lol...excuses.

You Tweenkies...always hiding behind one skirt or another.

[Rebound]

Just now, Nationalist said:

Lol...excuses.

You Tweenkies...always hiding behind one skirt or another.

Not excuses. Facts.  That’s what is. Supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do because it makes America safer.  

[herbie]

Trudeau Carbon Taxes Blamed For Massive Forest Fires
                                           -Dertmouth Denier Sep 9, 2023

A delegate to the CPC Convention stood up and blamed Trudeau's Carbon Tax as the root of this summer's massive forest fire outbreaks.
Joe Idget of Owl's Arse, Alberta explained to fellow delegates how he, like thousands of others, as a two pack a day smoker has been so impoverished by exorbitant  Liberal carbon taxes that he can't afford a Dollar Store plastic ashtray for his pickup truck.
"Not only have the Liberals banned the sale of vehicles with ashtrays and lighters, to the extent of renaming cigarette lighters to 12V outlets, Trudeau has literally mandated us to toss our butts out the window. This has been the cause of 99% of the fires started this year"
His speech was met with loud applause by fellow delegates.

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Not excuses. Facts.  That’s what is. Supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do because it makes America safer.  

By condemning hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to death.

America isn't more safe. It's a joke now under Biden.

[August1991]

On 9/9/2023 at 8:50 AM, Rebound said:

Then perhaps you remember Glasnost, which was Gorbachov's stated policy of liberating Eastern Europe. Funny how he said he'd do it, and then he did it.

...

Interesting point. I reckon that if Andropov had lived, the Soviet Union could have lasted longer. 

[August1991]

On 9/9/2023 at 8:50 AM, Rebound said:

...

Consider the ridiculousness of the Republican narrative: When dock workers in Poland went on strike, Russia didn't have the money to send soldiers in to stop them, and the Soviet government failed because of bankruptcy. Really? Russia couldn't send a few thousand soldiers to stop striking dock workers if they wanted? Of course they could. Easily. Gorbachov chose not to.

Fast-forward to 2023, the US has trillions of dollars of debt... yet we aren't bankrupt. In fact, governments do not fail because of bankruptcy. Sure, leaders get replaced all the time, but the entire government won't simply disintegrate. 

You lost me at "Republican narrative".

"... dock workers in Poland... "

Rebound, you have never been to Poland.

By curiosity, I have travelled to what is now Poland - because I was curious about Europe. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

On 9/9/2023 at 8:50 AM, Rebound said:

  Russia couldn't send a few thousand soldiers to stop striking dock workers if they wanted? Of course they could. Easily. Gorbachov chose not to.

It was Brezhnev in 1980, and it was considered handled because Poland declared martial law.

[myata]

Over centuries of experience, the societies have figured out that giving free hand to capitalism solves few problems and creates many new ones (overdevelopment, pollution, destructive cycles...). Now the capitalism has globalized and its all over, again. Only who promised that we have an infinite number of tries?

[Nationalist]

The bottom line is this.

Clinton ushered in the age of globalism and sold out the US manufacturing sector to China. America and the entire western world has never recovered from that.

Now these Libbie death cultists are trying to trash the base of the global economy.

They're insane and need to be stopped now.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Over centuries of experience, the societies have figured out that giving free hand to capitalism solves few problems and creates many new ones (overdevelopment, pollution, destructive cycles...). Now the capitalism has globalized and its all over, again. Only who promised that we have an infinite number of tries?

Again, kudos for the wide view... I am enjoying your posts and you are NOT on Ignore.

The thing about 'Capitalism' in its historical forms - Petite bourgeoisie, Robber Barons, etc. - is that they are subject to ebbs and flows of popular sentiment like any social institution.

The 'wild west' era of Big Tech that we're in is coming to a close, for example.  "We" may have reaped the rewards but the shine is off Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft and such and we are likely to claw back money and power from them.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

The bottom line is this.

Clinton ushered in the age of globalism and sold out the US manufacturing sector to China. America and the entire western world has never recovered from that.

Now these Libbie death cultists are trying to trash the base of the global economy.

They're insane and need to be stopped now.

Clinton was one link of a Chain from Nixon to Biden.  The "Western" world is run by money, especially corporate money and they did very well as did most of the upper middle class and such...

Democrats and Republicans used the myth of China "beating" America to cull votes from the sleepy lower classes who indeed lost out from the demise of manufacturing, unions and so on.

You are parroting the political slogans and so it's kind of a lower level of dialogue for a board like this.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Clinton was one link of a Chain from Nixon to Biden.  The "Western" world is run by money, especially corporate money and they did very well as did most of the upper middle class and such...

Democrats and Republicans used the myth of China "beating" America to cull votes from the sleepy lower classes who indeed lost out from the demise of manufacturing, unions and so on.

You are parroting the political slogans and so it's kind of a lower level of dialogue for a board like this.

As opposed to your consistent cowing to the cult?

Mike...your attempts to derail any and all real conservative positions is well known in this site. While I may agree with you once in a while, you are generally a cheerleader for bloated bureaucracies and socially destructive ideas. I also find your attempts to demean good, honest folk is a true tell-tale sign that you could care less about the population. It exhibits clearly your disdain for anyone who does not wonder off the cliff with you death-cultists.

Perhaps you should take your conceited attitude, your warped sense of reality and your disdain for the population...

and shove it where the sun don't shine. You know...the same place your death-cult ideas come from.

Have a warm and fuzzy day.

[myata]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

attempts to derail any and all real conservative positions is well known in this site.

Well, should I repeat again that all politics if and when left to its own instruments will end up self-serving, and much much more so, the partisan politics. Liberals are influenced by some star eyed globalists, sure whereas Conservatives, more by traditional clans like oil, tobacco and guns. There's no good answer for the society in this dilemma. It went a bit farther, added some to the prosperity and now it's in the stagnation mode and to move ahead from here, we will have to find, think and create new answers. Swapping bobbleheads wouldn't do a thing.

[Nationalist]

12 minutes ago, myata said:

Well, should I repeat again that all politics if and when left to its own instruments will end up self-serving, and much much more so, the partisan politics. Liberals are influenced by some star eyed globalists, sure whereas Conservatives, more by traditional clans like oil, tobacco and guns. There's no good answer for the society in this dilemma. It went a bit farther, added some to the prosperity and now it's in the stagnation mode and to move ahead from here, we will have to find, think and create new answers. Swapping bobbleheads wouldn't do a thing.

Then I'd strongly suggest we all take a deep breath and relearn what it is to cooperate and to compromise.

Example: Should schools hide psychological/sexual issues kids have, from parents? The obvious answer is NO! Yet the Libbies are trying to do so. In the spirit of cooperation, I think most parents would be OK with being informed at a meeting with school staff and perhaps a psychologist before any advise is ever given to the kid in question.

There...both sides have been heard and can at least feel they're concerns have been addressed.

But no...instead we have schools and districts FORCING unilateral decisions concerning the welfare of our own children...on us. That's bullshit and needs to stop now.

[impartialobserver]

A lot of this neglects the impact of automation. We met with leaders in the mining industry and guess what? They have for the last two years been replacing low level mining personnel with machines. That mythical time where manufacturing was the key to one's economic growth may be in the past. Do I like this? Not especially but nothing I can do to stop it. 

[myata]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Then I'd strongly suggest we all take a deep breath and relearn what it is to cooperate and to compromise.

Sure. But who is interested?

6 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

That mythical time where manufacturing was the key to one's economic growth may be in the past. Do I like this? Not especially but nothing I can do to stop it. 

That was supposed to be our job, as citizens, to observe, think, discuss and come up with solutions. Each new phase, every new development will require an intelligent response and working solutions. But we decided to delegated it all, all of the thinking and responsibility to someone in a high office, and go back to blissful slumber of daily survival. So who's there to blame when we wake up to unpleasant surprises? They were only doing their job - as much as they understood it and defined for themselves.

Edited September 13, 2023 by myata

[Rebound]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It was Brezhnev in 1980, and it was considered handled because Poland declared martial law.

But communist leadership remained in Poland until 1989, and Gorbachev took power in 1985. To be honest, the Soviet empire was massive and there were many dictators and people in power and Gorbachev didn't have nor did he want dictatorial control over the empire.

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Rebound said:

But communist leadership remained in Poland until 1989, and Gorbachev took power in 1985. To be honest, the Soviet empire was massive and there were many dictators and people in power and Gorbachev didn't have nor did he want dictatorial control over the empire.

Yes, minor correction my friend... only because I expect more from you.

From your post I read about "the fall" for about 1/2 an hour this AM... very interesting and it seems that there were just a LOT of people who wanted the Soviet to fall.

[Nationalist]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, minor correction my friend... only because I expect more from you.

From your post I read about "the fall" for about 1/2 an hour this AM... very interesting and it seems that there were just a LOT of people who wanted the Soviet to fall.

As you know, I lived and worked at our Canuck embassy for several years in the 90s in Prague. I can tell you that about 85% of all Czechs wanted the Soviet to fall. Everyone you met in those days, had been to the protests of the Velvet Revolution and were proud of it. They wanted what they figured was "freedom". What they got was something completely different. The IMF and World Bank both descended on the Czechs...as they did to all ex-Soviet nations...and waved billions of greenbacks under their noses in exchange for their entire infrastructure. Electricity...fuel...hell even the hiways were sold off to "Western Interests". The hiways! This happened all over the place...except Russia.

Today a lot of those people are completely disillusioned. They feel they were lied to. They've been had. Between the foreign ownership of everything and the squeeze the EU likes to put them all under, the people now look back with fond longing. There was a sense of community then according to the people I've spoken to. You could afford to eat and heat your home. People had a common enemy...the Communists. Now people are enemies with each other in a mad scramble to get whats left of the nation. What crumbs the west left and didn't yet devour.

THIS...is our empire in action. Sort o' leaves a rotten after-taste in your mouth...don' it.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Nationalist

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

As you know, I lived and worked at our Canuck embassy for several years in the 90s in Prague. I can tell you that about 85% of all Czechs wanted the Soviet to fall. Everyone you met in those days, had been to the protests of the Velvet Revolution and were proud of it. They wanted what they figured was "freedom". What they got was something completely different. The IMF and World Bank both descended on the Czechs...as they did to all ex-Soviet nations...and waved billions of greenbacks under their noses in exchange for their entire infrastructure. Electricity...fuel...hell even the hiways were sold off to "Western Interests". The hiways! This happened all over the place...except Russia.

Today a lot of those people are completely disillusioned. They feel they were lied to. They've been had. Between the foreign ownership of everything and the squeeze the EU likes to put them all under, the people now look back with fond longing. There was a sense of community then according to the people I've spoken to. You could afford to eat and heat your home. People had a common enemy...the Communists. Now people are enemies with each other in a mad scramble to get whats left of the nation. What crumbs the west left and didn't yet devour.

THIS...is our empire in action. Sort o' leaves a rotten after-taste in your mouth...don' it.

I see. So you believe in socialism. Interesting. 

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

I see. So you believe in socialism. Interesting. 

Believe in socialism? What a strange and oddly typical response. Should o' see this coming...

No Rebound...I don't "believe" in socialism. I "believe" in myself, my family, my Gawd, and common sense. And now...I "believe" I'll have a beer.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

THIS...is our empire in action. Sort o' leaves a rotten after-taste in your mouth...don' it.

Not really. It was hard-boiled lassaier fraire capitalism imposed on them by the IMF/WB and fueled by neocon free market values. No one was paying attention to anything a lefty might have to contribute. My conscience is clear.

[Rebound]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Believe in socialism? What a strange and oddly typical response. Should o' see this coming...

No Rebound...I don't "believe" in socialism. I "believe" in myself, my family, my Gawd, and common sense. And now...I "believe" I'll have a beer.

If you don’t believe in socialism, then why do think the people of Eastern Europe are entitled to collectively own their nation’s infrastructure? 

[Hodad]

22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Clinton was one link of a Chain from Nixon to Biden.  The "Western" world is run by money, especially corporate money and they did very well as did most of the upper middle class and such...

Democrats and Republicans used the myth of China "beating" America to cull votes from the sleepy lower classes who indeed lost out from the demise of manufacturing, unions and so on.

You are parroting the political slogans and so it's kind of a lower level of dialogue for a board like this.

Right. -- GDP growth was fantastic. Real median household incomes did not keep pace or see much positive growth. But we DID get a lot of cheap and relatively high quality consumer goods, which people quite like.

I don't think that the problem is that global markets didn't work. The problem is that we allowed, through perverse incentives, most of the economic benefit of massive productivity gains and wealth gains to accrue to top few percent. It's become common to have CEOs earning 300x what their employees make. That should be a shocking number, but we've grown accustomed to it. 

Like everyone else, I'm a capitalist, but it's hard to rationalize that kind of wealth gap. It feels a lot more like a problem than a positive outcome. And to make it generational cements the gap. Though there's some irony in it, even Thomas Jefferson warned against an "artificial aristocracy" blessed by birth. In other words, we should probably have a massive estate tax. Let people make as much money as they want, but limit what can be left as inheritance. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

If you don’t believe in socialism, then why do think the people of Eastern Europe are entitled to collectively own their nation’s infrastructure? 

Don't be stupid. Really...your line here is just stupid. 

Some social ownership of a nation's infrastructure is a better option than selling it off to let foreign interests to own and manage it.

You sure assume you know a lot about things you have no experience with.