Wildfire Evacuations

[OftenWrong]

47 minutes ago, herbie said:

You remind me of my dog. He always looks at you as if there's an ulterior motive behind handing him a treat. A conspiracy behind everything,

Maybe that dog knows you a lot better than you think, eh little herbie?  

[ExFlyer]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:10 PM, OftenWrong said:

Are these evacuations truly necessary, or is this just more of the over-the-top reaction about the climate apocalypse coming from our government?

Actually,, in the case of my family in Kelowna it was " the over-the-top reaction" to the trees burning in their back yard.

In the case of Yellowknife, where i also have family, which is surrounded by fires except on the lake side, there is only one road in and out so " the over-the-top reaction" is a safety issue.

Decisions have to be made for the safety of the citizens. If you think their safety is " the over-the-top reaction" then I think you hand your family have never faced any danger.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Actually,, in the case of my family in Kelowna it was " the over-the-top reaction" to the trees burning in their back yard.

In the case of Yellowknife, where i also have family, which is surrounded by fires except on the lake side, there is only one road in and out so " the over-the-top reaction" is a safety issue.

Decisions have to be made for the safety of the citizens. If you think their safety is " the over-the-top reaction" then I think you hand your family have never faced any danger.

Yeah.  And the problem is if the weather and wind changes suddenly which can very possibly happen the fire can spread so fast there may not be time to evacuate at that point (look at hawaii for example), so moving people out of the 'splash zone' even if the fire isn't directly threatening them while things are still under control is not a bad idea, even if it is "an abundance of caution".

[herbie]

Just look at the death toll in Maui and hear the complaints they weren't given enough warning....

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Actually,, in the case of my family in Kelowna it was " the over-the-top reaction" to the trees burning in their back yard.

In the case of Yellowknife, where i also have family, which is surrounded by fires except on the lake side, there is only one road in and out so " the over-the-top reaction" is a safety issue.

Decisions have to be made for the safety of the citizens. If you think their safety is " the over-the-top reaction" then I think you hand your family have never faced any danger.

I don't know about you people but I for one have had enough scare-mongering, chicken little and crying wolf from the government. Raising the hype and calling too many false alarms will do that. So it's irresponsible. The government is irresponsible when they manipulate the message to cry wolf, and it has consequences.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah.  And the problem is if the weather and wind changes suddenly which can very possibly happen the fire can spread so fast there may not be time to evacuate at that point (look at hawaii for example), so moving people out of the 'splash zone' even if the fire isn't directly threatening them while things are still under control is not a bad idea, even if it is "an abundance of caution".

Evacuation is a big deal and should not be sone whimsically. How are they making that determination? Do they haveany guidelines or protocol, or is it just done by feelsies.

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

there is only one road in and out so " the over-the-top reaction" is a safety issue.

One road out, eh. Sounds whimsical.

So no one anticipated a problem with one road out, given how the area is surrounded by bush? No one said, lets cut a safety perimeter around us to act as a firewall? 

They can't protect the road? So no one ever said, hey let's cut down every tree within two miles, or lets plan an alternate route.

Like me pappy used to say,

Sorry dude, a lack of planning and preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency response on my part.

[ExFlyer]

 

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't know about you people but I for one have had enough scare-mongering, chicken little and crying wolf from the government. Raising the hype and calling too many false alarms will do that. So it's irresponsible. The government is irresponsible when they manipulate the message to cry wolf, and it has consequences.

Evacuation is a big deal and should not be sone whimsically. How are they making that determination? Do they haveany guidelines or protocol, or is it just done by feelsies.

You are aware, or should be that it is the municipalities that make these decisions for the saftey of the people in the area.

I can assure you none of the decisions are "whimsical".  The effect and cost of evacuation is not in the slightest a whimsical action.

Yes there are emergency plans and in recent years with all the flooding and fires, they have been updated.

You clearly live in your basement and have no idea of anything LOL

49 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

One road out, eh. Sounds whimsical.

So no one anticipated a problem with one road out, given how the area is surrounded by bush? No one said, lets cut a safety perimeter around us to act as a firewall? 

They can't protect the road? So no one ever said, hey let's cut down every tree within two miles, or lets plan an alternate route.

Like me pappy used to say,

Sorry dude, a lack of planning and preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency response on my part.

You clearly have no idea about the north, or many areas of this country. They did make a fire break bu thigh winds still allowed the fire to jump them. There is only one main road to and from the north through the Northwest Territories. No nee for a 16 lane highway like downtown Toronto.

In Kelowna, the high winds pushed the fires across roads and even the lake.

Embers travel a long way.

You have no idea how much planning and effort goes into emergency situations.

I am surprised how clueless you are. 

[BeaverFever]

Even wildfire can’t stop Convoy nutjobs from raising their ugly head again, preventing firefighters from doing their job. 
 

RCMP condemn self-declared convoy that wanted past Shuswap wildfire blockade

Police say group challenged officers stationed at roadblock
 

RCMP condemn self-declared convoy that wanted past Shuswap wildfire blockade

Police say group challenged officers stationed at roadblock

Lachlan Labere  about 8 hours ago about 7 hours ago

A photo of the blockade on Highway 1, from Aug.23. (Facebook) 

Police say Mounties were confronted by a group of people intent on crossing a roadblock on Highway 1 to access an evacuation order area in the Shuswap.

The incident occurred Wednesday evening, Aug. 23, after Chase RCMP received reports of a large group of people mustering with food and supplies destined for the evacuation order area in the North Shuswap.

“It appeared that the intentions of those involved were to overwhelm the police roadblock and gain access into the area…,” said RCMP spokesperson Cpl. James Grandy in a media release. “The group later challenged the BC RCMP officers stationed at the roadblock into the area currently under order.”

Grandy said an increased police presence has been in place in response to “ongoing efforts by some individuals who have undermined BC Wildfire Service fire suppression work through the movement of vital equipment and have compromised emergency personnel safety through threats of violence.”

He stressed the evacuation order area is not safe due to continued fire activity, as well as damage to powerlines and unstable trees and structures.
 

…

A post shared on Facebook by a “Convoy of Truth and Freedom” called for a gathering at 6 p.m. at the Shuswap Community Centre parking lot that would leave promptly at 6:20 p.m., travelling down the Trans-Canada Highway to Sorrento.

On Wednesday evening, the BC Wildfire Service shared and quickly removed a social media post stating in response to safety concerns, its unit crews, heavy equipment operators and structural firefighters would be reassigned from the North Shuswap to other areas of the Bush Creek East and Rossmore Lake wildfires.

 

https://www.vicnews.com/news/rcmp-condemn-self-declared-convoy-that-wanted-past-shuswap-wildfire-blockade-3020991

 

 

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

 

You are aware, or should be that it is the municipalities that make these decisions for the saftey of the people in the area.

I can assure you none of the decisions are "whimsical".  The effect and cost of evacuation is not in the slightest a whimsical action.

Yes there are emergency plans and in recent years with all the flooding and fires, they have been updated.

You clearly live in your basement and have no idea of anything LOL

You clearly have no idea about the north, or many areas of this country. They did make a fire break bu thigh winds still allowed the fire to jump them. There is only one main road to and from the north through the Northwest Territories. No nee for a 16 lane highway like downtown Toronto.

In Kelowna, the high winds pushed the fires across roads and even the lake.

Embers travel a long way.

You have no idea how much planning and effort goes into emergency situations.

I am surprised how clueless you are. 

I am simply channeling the message and attitude of the people on the ground. As we now see.

Let's just say, it behooves the likes of Guilbeault et al to make the biggest deal possible out of every natural disaster or adverse climate event. And that's why people are getting fed up. We know when we are being shystered.

Some of us do, anyway.  

[OftenWrong]

Right on time. Cue the media ridicule of those who speak truth to power.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/fear-falsehoods-and-conspiracy-theories-ignite-amid-canada-s-wildfires-1.6534274

By making them appear as conspiracy theorists overshadows any real criticism of government mishandling.

That way you can sleep snuggly, ExFlier.

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Right on time. Cue the media ridicule of those who speak truth to power.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/fear-falsehoods-and-conspiracy-theories-ignite-amid-canada-s-wildfires-1.6534274

By making them appear as conspiracy theorists overshadows any real criticism of government mishandling.

That way you can sleep snuggly, ExFlier.

Truth to Power is a thing to be respected but aren't some of these ldiots an entire separate and valid problem if they make problems for emergency services and management ?

This problem is pretty remote from me, but I moderate some facebook groups where the 'ordinary citizens' are getting sick of rabid rabble rousers.

There is a limit right ?  I would say that jamming communication, spreading falsehoods and direct physical interference are new trends that need to be publicized and addressed.  Governments can do their part by being clear and transparent in their messaging.

 

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I am simply channeling the message and attitude of the people on the ground. As we now see.

Let's just say, it behooves the likes of Guilbeault et al to make the biggest deal possible out of every natural disaster or adverse climate event. And that's why people are getting fed up. We know when we are being shystered.

Some of us do, anyway.  

The "people on the ground"?  The ones that have their homes burnt to the ground and their lives have been saved by being told to evacuate?

As you now see? See what??

Are you somehow saying the federal government is making deals with natural disasters?? As you you have already been told, it is provincial and mostly municipal governments that tell people to evacuate on the advise of the on site emergency personnel.

The only shystering going on is what you are trying to pass on LOL

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 8/21/2023 at 11:13 PM, Aristides said:

The West Kelowna fire jumped Okanagan Lake. The Trans Canada crossed by fires on the Thompson and two places in the Fraser Canyon. You might want to rethink what is over the top.

That is disturbing. What size firebreaks are towns going to need in the future? 

Edited August 26, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

32 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

That is disturbing. What size firebreaks are towns going to need in the future? 

I doubt one would do it.  I suspect the correct answer is several fire breaks that are at least 4x4 driveable in a ring around towns.  If the fire jumps one or two then its stuck between that and the next one and doesn't have the same ability to get big enough to throw embers as far, and it's easier for crews to get in and fight it.  Even then that may not always be enough

The town of Logan Lake Bought what are basically lawn sprinklers to be mounted on everybody's roof. That town was almost over run by a forest fire but everybody turned their sprinklers on on the roof and the homes didn't catch fire. We may need to see more federal subsidies and provincial subsidies for programs like that

[Aristides]

On 8/25/2023 at 5:11 AM, OftenWrong said:

Right on time. Cue the media ridicule of those who speak truth to power.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/fear-falsehoods-and-conspiracy-theories-ignite-amid-canada-s-wildfires-1.6534274

By making them appear as conspiracy theorists overshadows any real criticism of government mishandling.

That way you can sleep snuggly, ExFlier.

Firefighters have been busting their asses and putting their lives at risk since May trying to save people's homes and livelihoods (many losing their own homes as they try to save others)  and a bunch of dipshits want to get in their way to make a point. Fu**ing get over yourself.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Aristides

[Army Guy]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:58 PM, ExFlyer said:

 

You are aware, or should be that it is the municipalities that make these decisions for the saftey of the people in the area.

I can assure you none of the decisions are "whimsical".  The effect and cost of evacuation is not in the slightest a whimsical action.

Yes there are emergency plans and in recent years with all the flooding and fires, they have been updated.

You clearly live in your basement and have no idea of anything LOL

You clearly have no idea about the north, or many areas of this country. They did make a fire break bu thigh winds still allowed the fire to jump them. There is only one main road to and from the north through the Northwest Territories. No nee for a 16 lane highway like downtown Toronto.

In Kelowna, the high winds pushed the fires across roads and even the lake.

Embers travel a long way.

You have no idea how much planning and effort goes into emergency situations.

I am surprised how clueless you are. 

Not saying that evacs operations were not over the top... but planning and effort are lacking... they have known for decades there is only one main evac route, which the liberals are saying they hope to fix... I'm hopping for more than just funding for a road, i've heard many different organizations call for a nationalized forest fighting aircraft service, many calling for the military do do it as with dozens of other nations do, give those aircraft to the reserves and hire pilots and crew, even the US air force has Hercs converted to water bombers...Britian is getting rid of all their hercs very soon... Things are not getting any better, might as well do some extra planning and sort this out...

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not saying that evacs operations were not over the top... but planning and effort are lacking... they have known for decades there is only one main evac route, which the liberals are saying they hope to fix... I'm hopping for more than just funding for a road, i've heard many different organizations call for a nationalized forest fighting aircraft service, many calling for the military do do it as with dozens of other nations do, give those aircraft to the reserves and hire pilots and crew, even the US air force has Hercs converted to water bombers...Britian is getting rid of all their hercs very soon... Things are not getting any better, might as well do some extra planning and sort this out...

How many roads do you think there should be between Yellowknife and Edmonton? If there were more than one, why would you think they both wouldn't be affected? There is only one direction to go. South and even then there is a great goddam lake in the way.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Aristides

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

How many roads do you think there should be between Yellowknife and Edmonton? 

We'll fix that problem when we build the thousands of miles of roads we need so people who rake up forest debris can reach the forest.

[herbie]

I live in the middle of BC. There's only one road out and one powerline in. When I moved here 35 years ago they talked how they needed to improve a logging road to make a second route and a circle route that would benefit tourism and help in emergencies.
So the finally built a mine a decade ago along that route. Completely f*cked up that other road out of here, then decided to improve the other section of that logging road as it was shorter and cheaper. They brought power in from the other side for the same reason.

Then they built a biomass power plant. And did not connect it to the town, just to the mills two miles past the main substation. Which are all shut down now.
So we just had a fire that closed the main highway out of town for a day. Plus the 3rd day long power outage of the summer. They still have no secure power or emergency route here, MOF many people that lived on the road from here to that mine have moved away so they've reduce maintenance on that original logging road - it's worse than it was 35 years ago. The city of Priunce George alone has more than double the population of the NWT, so I get what is being said.

Same thing could happen here if a fire hit, evacuations by plane... little tiny ones that could land at the tiny airport. Or maybe, as it looks like for Hay River, they could round up a few Sauders Roe flying boats from an aircraft museum!

We're paying the price of not being prepared. so it's long past time to start thinking seriously about disaster response in Canada. They come in more shapes than just earthquakes and tsunamis.

[OftenWrong]

40 minutes ago, herbie said:

I live in the middle of BC. There's only one road out and one powerline in. When I moved here 35 years ago they talked how they needed to improve a logging road to make a second route and a circle route that would benefit tourism and help in emergencies.
So the finally built a mine a decade ago along that route. Completely f*cked up that other road out of here, then decided to improve the other section of that logging road as it was shorter and cheaper. They brought power in from the other side for the same reason.

Then they built a biomass power plant. And did not connect it to the town, just to the mills two miles past the main substation. Which are all shut down now.
So we just had a fire that closed the main highway out of town for a day. Plus the 3rd day long power outage of the summer. They still have no secure power or emergency route here, MOF many people that lived on the road from here to that mine have moved away so they've reduce maintenance on that original logging road - it's worse than it was 35 years ago. The city of Prince George alone has more than double the population of the NWT, so I get what is being said.

Same thing could happen here if a fire hit, evacuations by plane... little tiny ones that could land at the tiny airport. Or maybe, as it looks like for Hay River, they could round up a few Sauders Roe flying boats from an aircraft museum!

We're paying the price of not being prepared. so it's long past time to start thinking seriously about disaster response in Canada. They come in more shapes than just earthquakes and tsunamis.

Whole story is a nightmare tale of ecological damage caused by cutting a swath through the forest and laying down asphalt roads and driveways. So that is what you people out in BC call "Green", with all your big talk the reality is actually the complete opposite.

It's like those Quebecers who built their homes on a flood plane, then started crying for a bailout when the water came back. Well like my pappy used to say, a lack of proper planning on your part does not constitute an emergency response on my part. Let alone sympathy of any kind.

[herbie]

Dumbest response possible, but I'm not surprised.

Reverting to blame, no matter how creative one if to assign it rather than suggesting or concurring with the need for a solution. Just like with Covid, Who was to blame is more important than actually doing something. Oppose any attempt as an attack on personal freedumbs.

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, Aristides said:

How many roads do you think there should be between Yellowknife and Edmonton? If there were more than one, why would you think they both wouldn't be affected? There is only one direction to go. South and even then there is a great goddam lake in the way.

Well the mayor of Yellowknife as been asking for improvements to infra structure for years now, a secondary road is included on that list... There are pictures of the evacuation and it is wall to wall traffic, had the fire cut that road and then threaten the city how would those people get out...another road would give them time to evac more people , also cut down on traffic on the primary route, which would means it could flow faster...Not sure why that would be a huge issue...

I mean there is 20,000 people in Yellow knife, it would take days to fly them out, what other options do they have...

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Well the mayor of Yellowknife as been asking for improvements to infra structure for years now, a secondary road is included on that list... There are pictures of the evacuation and it is wall to wall traffic, had the fire cut that road and then threaten the city how would those people get out...another road would give them time to evac more people , also cut down on traffic on the primary route, which would means it could flow faster...Not sure why that would be a huge issue...

I mean there is 20,000 people in Yellow knife, it would take days to fly them out, what other options do they have...

The thing is, a secondary road would have to be basically parallel to the existing road. These fires have been so huge, both would have likely been threatened. However you could evacuate people much quicker if both roads were open.