The real reason for climate change alarmism is to destroy Capitalism

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I don't think that any of them do, above any other creed or metaphysical belief system.

I have a theory that it keeps the Chuds down...

Arguably the one that is the foundation of our western thought and values. Things like human rights, tolerance and respect stem from fundamental christian tenets. They are our origins and it is those ideas that evolved into the liberty you enjoy today. 

As well as legal system, might I add.

So, as my pappy used to say, when it comes to religion pick yer poison fella.

[I am Groot]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:13 PM, herbie said:

With discussion regarding "checks and balances" and "sides" it is no wonder the Conservatives have still not come up with a climate plan at all.
They remain too influenced by the do nothing and full goblin mode wings.

Tory cost of doing nothing: $0

results: No change in world Co2

Liberal cost of carbon neutral: $1.7 Trillion

results: No change in world Co2

I'll take the Tory plan thanks.

[I am Groot]

22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It seems to go like this...

"Someone is asking everyone to sacrifice a bit?!? How SELFISH OF THEM!"

A bit? You apparently don't understand the degree to which today's economies are reliant on cheap and abundant energy. The cost of meeting Trudeau's carbon neutral goal by 2035 has been estimated at $1.7 trillion. Which exceeds the total annual production of this country. It will unquestionably have a very damaging impact on our economy. We already see this in the slowdown in foreign investment and in our natural resources industries. The only way we can get anyone to build a factory here seems to be to pay them to do it.

[I am Groot]

20 hours ago, herbie said:

I will repeat again, the Conservatives have no climate plan.

No matter how many times you wish to post "Cancel the Carbon Tax" and stall it is still not a climate plan.

Ah yes. Better to have a doomed plan with no possibility of success which will cause heavy damage to the economy and the wealth and standard of living of the people here than to have no plan. Right?

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Tory cost of doing nothing: $0

results: No change in world Co2

Liberal cost of carbon neutral: $1.7 Trillion

results: No change in world Co2

I'll take the Tory plan thanks.

Funny thing -  people say harper did nothing about climate change.  And the liberals care about climate change and have a plan.

GHG emissions went down under harper.  They've gone up under trudeau.

Harper's nothing was really something  

[Michael Hardner]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:35 PM, CdnFox said:

Of course i can. I Just dont.  Why would i pander to a liberal troll? Every position you take almost without exception is left of center - often VERY left of center. So nothing then. Well we knew that. You're very obviously a liberal. 

It struck me today that the populist Chuds who incorrectly call themselves conservatives are much like their dear leader Trump.

They don't back up their words.  They don't have to because their positions are built on loyal to the mob, not facts.

Brian Mulroney, George HW Bush, Maggie Thatcher - ALL were environmental leaders.  No conspiracy theories, or blaming Jewish lasers there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5299597

[herbie]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Ah yes. Better to have a doomed plan with no possibility of success which will cause heavy damage to the economy and the wealth and standard of living of the people here than to have no plan. Right?

More like one that's already working, because you're whining so much about it. Obviously you're thinking about your energy useage and uinless you're retarded or just a total goblin are doing something to reduce it.
Compared to pretending there is no problem and doing nothing but make excuses as to why you should continue to do so.

Let's hand out 'credits' so they get tax breaks without reducing emissions at all and sweep it under the rug with carbon capture pipe dreams.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It struck me today that the populist Chuds who incorrectly call themselves conservatives are much like their dear leader Trump.

so conservatives are 'chuds'  who 'are all trumpists"

Sure - that's not a left wing position to take at all.

 

Quote

They don't back up their words.  They don't have to because their positions are built on loyal to the mob, not facts.

That's more of a left wing thing.  For example - i asked you to prove you were conservative, and your answer was that you believe in ideas the left wing believes in.  And no examples given.

Quote

Brian Mulroney, George HW Bush, Maggie Thatcher - ALL were environmental leaders.  No conspiracy theories, or blaming Jewish lasers there.

Well maybe one of these days you should actually consider becoming a real conservative then. I agree, in real terms conservatives are better for the environment.  GHG emissions went down significantly with harper. They've gone up with justin. 

But - your words and ideals have always been strongly left of center to date.  Can't just lie your way out of that. Everyone sees it. You're like that stereotypical "I"m not gay" gay guy who's totally gay but emotionally doesn't want to admit it. You're a leftie.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. so conservatives are 'chuds'  who 'are all trumpists"

2. your answer was that you believe in ideas the left wing believes in.  And no examples given.

 

1. Non sequitur

2. Non sequitur.  If I had NOT given you a list, how would you be able to categorize anything?  So strange.

And TIL science, institutions, education, are left-wing ideas...

....

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

More like one that's already working,

It is? You mean world CO2 levels are dropping? Because I understand they're actually rising.

 

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Non sequitur

False.  That's a cheap attempt to dodge the issue

Quote

2. Non sequitur.  If I had NOT given you a list, how would you be able to categorize anything?  So strange.

False.  That's a cheap attempt to dodge the issue. And simply providing categories is not providing examples.  Pretty obvious

Quote

And TIL science, institutions, education, are left-wing ideas...

Are you claiming that prior to today you believed that NO left wingers believe in science? (climate change?) There are NO institutions that the left wing believes in?  And that NO left wingers believe in education?

You didn't hurt yourself did you? Falling off that turnip truck i mean?

Dishonesty in discussions is pretty left wing as well and you've got that going on in spades, so more evidence against you.

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1.  That's a cheap attempt to dodge the issue

 

1. What issue exactly?  You made the statement that doesn't follow from the facts.

I don't think that you understand... things.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. What issue exactly?  You made the statement that doesn't follow from the facts.

 

But it does,  And your attempt to claim otherwise is just an attempt to blow it off and avoid discussing it.

So - in fact the non sequitor is yours.

If you're finding the conversation too difficult to follow, i can try to dumb it down for you? Let me know.

[herbie]

What is funny about his whole thread is the headline. They're out to 'destroy capitalism' by opening huge new opportunities that weren't there before.

Reminds me oF how in these parts when all the mills closed, the people who got rich off them had lost all their "power" and about all they could do was f*** people over to prevent them from ever making significant money. And they all did just that, to the best of their ability and influence. Same thing happening on climate issues, too stupid or lazy to invest in new ideas, so they promote and agitate trying to prevent anyone new from joining their circle.

Let's use some of the millions the family made selling cast iron stoves to convince people microwave ovens and heat exchangers are stoopid. We can write it off!

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

What is funny about his whole thread is the headline. They're out to 'destroy capitalism' by opening huge new opportunities that weren't there before

The opportunity to pay more for power, pay radically high taxes, have industries shut down and have lifestyles reduced?

Yeah - crazy that people would fight that. Pffft.  Kids today, whatchagonna do

[Goddess]

I mentioned to a climate nut acquaintance of mine yesterday, that 4 people were arrested for arson in Yellowknife.  He said, "Well, the fires wouldn't spread if it wasnt so dry from climate change."

?

OR.... people should stop setting fires.

Why are there so many environmental arsonists all of a sudden?

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, herbie said:

More like one that's already working, because you're whining so much about it. Obviously you're thinking about your energy useage and uinless you're retarded or just a total goblin are doing something to reduce it.
Compared to pretending there is no problem and doing nothing but make excuses as to why you should continue to do so.

Let's hand out 'credits' so they get tax breaks without reducing emissions at all and sweep it under the rug with carbon capture pipe dreams.

Is it really working, perhaps show us some source that proves your statement.  Emissions are up, not down,  global missions are up, not down, everything this liberal government has fixed is now broken to the extreme...Your a smart fella, why in the hell can you not see that...you hate conservatives that bad, that you can't even think straight...

Liberal plan is horse shi*, it does nothing... except fool leftist Canadians into thinking we are on the climate change train...when in reality we have not even left the station yet...here is the plan give me a dollar, at the end of the year I'll give it back to you, plus most families will get more...all lies...give us the facts not liberal talking points..

 

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

What is funny about his whole thread is the headline. They're out to 'destroy capitalism' by opening huge new opportunities that weren't there before.

The Paris Accord has Western countries agreeing not only to reduce their Co2 emissions but to transfer $100B a year to the developing world - ostensibly for them to pay for their own efforts, but really it just goes into general revenues and into the pockets of the corrupt governments. It's income redistribution practiced on a world scale.

Huge opportunities? Like the ones Dalton McGuinty said would open up to Ontario by hugely increasing the cost of power in the province?

[herbie]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The opportunity to pay more for power, pay radically high taxes, have industries shut down and have lifestyles reduced?

You're gonna pay way more for power regardless. You must've been squeezing your eyes shut not to see them stuffing their pockets and rewarding shareholders. Like paying a dollar mote for gas when prices even got close to what they were and paying a whole dime in tax.

Who shall pay? Who shall pay?
Reminds me of that TV commercial.

Well you shall pay. Isn't that a fundamental principle of conservatives? User pay? So if you don't want to pay, you don't have to buy it.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

You're gonna pay way more for power regardless

Ok - so your argument is we should make it worse because it might be bad

Well.....

(you know, you're sounding more like myata every day, and just as coherent)

ANd if you really believe that nonesense,  become a shareholder.  Problem solved.

[herbie]

And yours is "we could've paid just 90c more instead"?

And that's logical?

[CdnFox]

33 minutes ago, herbie said:

And yours is "we could've paid just 90c more instead"?

And that's logical?

You said we're paying that either way - and called the chance to pay the extra 10 percent it an "opportunity". That's where i'm struggling with the logic

[Zeitgeist]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:32 AM, CdnFox said:

You said we're paying that either way - and called the chance to pay the extra 10 percent it an "opportunity". That's where i'm struggling with the logic

An enormous percentage of what we pay for fuel is taxes. That was true before the carbon tax, which adds insult to injury at a time of high inflation.  The government would already be receiving unprecedentedly high revenues from gas tax as a result of higher oil prices without the carbon tax.  If anything we should be receiving a tax holiday.  Instead, the government keeps adding spending programs like $100 million for pro LGBTQ2S+ propaganda just last month.  Your hard-earned taxes at work…

Edited August 21, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

An enormous percentage of what we pay for fuel is taxes. That was true before the carbon tax, which adds insult to injury at a time of high inflation.  The government would already be receiving unprecedentedly high revenues from gas tax as a result of higher oil prices without the carbon tax.  If anything we should be receiving a tax holiday.  Instead, the government keeps adding spending programs like $100 million for pro LGBTQ2S+ propaganda just last month.  Your hard-earned taxes at work…

And bringing in more people to increase our population at a rate vastly higher than our ability to create homes or infrastructure, which also drives up our inflation and  living costs on top of it.

People have to have a place to live - and people need to go to work and heat their homes.  Those costs aren't "discretionary",  ANd yet the gov't is jacking them up at the worst possible time with bad policy and bad tax.