Derailment of democracy

[myata]

This is difficult to believe yet the reality beats reasonable analysis: rival's silence on Trump. From here, it's a high possibility for a string of new lows complete with nomination of a convicted felon by a major party.

But at the heart of it, clear and entirely predictable phenomenon: extreme, unbounded polarization. The loudest, most aggressive clique wins. Thinking and behaving rationally and objectively does not offer any benefits. Negative selection: unconditional loyalty, loud mindless cheering and of course, readiness to say anything including: lie to achieve the desired goal. One has to choose between supporting the mob, even tacitly or being ostracized. Race to the bottom in full swing and few good exits.

FPTP creates extreme polarization and partisanship in the political system spreading to the wider society. It is a danger to democracy. And it will degrade, undermine and kill it, with time and our complacency and indifference.

[Rebound]

If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes true.

Joseph Goebbels

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, myata said:

FPTP creates extreme polarization and partisanship in the political system spreading to the wider society. It is a danger to democracy. And it will degrade, undermine and kill it, with time and our complacency and indifference.

I agree with your assessment of the problem more than the solution.

Our culture has changed to one where feelings of entitlement are encouraged, and values such as compromise, humility and sharing are not.  I would place it more on the decline of religion, and of the public intellectual.  Trying to please everybody all the time results in a lack of leadership, and instead we get so-called leaders who govern via customer surveys.

The biggest problems are unity, economy and environmental threats.

We need to take morality out of the public dialogue, and emphasize compromise and dialogue instead.  We need to provide an easier way of living to the bottom 80% of the citizenry and we need to align on environmental response.

[reason10]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree with your assessment of the problem more than the solution.

Our culture has changed to one where feelings of entitlement are encouraged, and values such as compromise, humility and sharing are not.  I would place it more on the decline of religion, and of the public intellectual.  Trying to please everybody all the time results in a lack of leadership, and instead we get so-called leaders who govern via customer surveys.

The biggest problems are unity, economy and environmental threats.

We need to take morality out of the public dialogue, and emphasize compromise and dialogue instead.  We need to provide an easier way of living to the bottom 80% of the citizenry and we need to align on environmental response.

The biggest issues are election security, border security, the economy (which today is the worst in history) and foreign policy.

I started to agree about taking morality out of public dialogue, but there's NOTHING moral about political debate today. It's basically Capitalism versus National Socialism.

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

[robosmith]

23 minutes ago, reason10 said:

The biggest issues are election security, border security, the economy (which today is the worst in history) and foreign policy.

I started to agree about taking morality out of public dialogue, but there's NOTHING moral about political debate today. It's basically Capitalism versus National Socialism.

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

The biggest issue is people like YOURSELF believing and spreading ^this sort of BULLSHIT as though it is fact instead of just your ignorant opinion.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

The biggest issues are election security, border security, the economy (which today is the worst in history) and foreign policy.

I started to agree about taking morality out of public dialogue, but there's NOTHING moral about political debate today. It's basically Capitalism versus National Socialism.

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

Let’s play:

1) Election Security: Name one single precinct in the entire nation in which voter fraud was uncovered, resulting in changing the Presidential result from one candidate to another. Just ONE precinct!!!!

 

2) Border Security: Describe the policy which Biden can implement, consistent with US law, which will reduce immigration.  Being the dope you are, I’m sure you have absolutely no clue how current immigration law currently prevents the President from simply deporting undocumented immigrants.  Where’s Kevin McCarthy’s immigration law?

 

3) The economy: Please name the “worst ever” economic index you’re referring to. You can’t, so I’ll just laugh at your lunacy some more. 
 

4) Foreign Policy: Biden is powerfully standing up to Russia, while Trump would obviously cave in instantly. Making stupid speeches isn’t foreign policy, it’s just bombastic fluff. Trump threatened North Korea at the UN and had zero results in stopping their nuclear missile program.  

Edited July 29, 2023 by Rebound

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

The biggest issue is people like YOURSELF believing and spreading ^this sort of BULLSHIT as though it is fact instead of just your ignorant opinion.

Election security is number ONE?

???

[West]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

The biggest issues are election security, border security, the economy (which today is the worst in history) and foreign policy.

I started to agree about taking morality out of public dialogue, but there's NOTHING moral about political debate today. It's basically Capitalism versus National Socialism.

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

The biggest issue is that Democrats DO NOT live in reality. They paint a picture of anyone who doesn't agree with their bizarre, pie in the sky police objectives as being like Adolf Hitler or yokels. 

The reality is they DO NOT live in reality. 

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

We need to take morality out of the public dialogue, and emphasize compromise and dialogue instead. 

Trump said "I'm the only one who can win it for you". No whys or ifs, at what cost to us, to what end. Win by any means all what matters. And we have a well known member who will sign to it word for word. That's the result, the destination. What "dialogue"?

[myata]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

There you go, QED. The result, the destination demonstrated in vivo. Can you have a democracy with folks who take every word of their Supreme Guru as a scripture to worship? No you can't - beyond the limits of possible. What if Trump told you what the Sun will not rise tomorrow, fakenews? Just curious.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, West said:

The biggest issue is that Democrats DO NOT live in reality. They paint a picture of anyone who doesn't agree with their bizarre, pie in the sky police objectives as being like Adolf Hitler or yokels. 

The reality is they DO NOT live in reality. 

The reality is, that like Hitler, Trump tried to overturn the election results in which HE LOST his re-election.

It remains to be seen if Trump will end up in prison like Hitler did for the same crime.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Our culture has changed to one where feelings of entitlement are encouraged,

That's a very odd statement coming from a leftist. I can't make any sense of it. Hasn't that been your goal all along? 

It's #1 on Trudeau and Biden's lists.

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and values such as compromise, humility and sharing are not. 

Vax-Nazis love compromise. ?

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I would place it more on the decline of religion, and of the public intellectual. 

Leftists are famously anti-religion and they're all followers/anti-intellectuals. Nothing is more anti-intellectual than saying "We the sheeple..."

Are you changing sides?

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The biggest problems are unity, economy

And yet you have nothing to say about Trudeau's blatant hate mongering, or this guy:

There has never been a more polarizing figure in Canadian politics than Justin Trudeau. Not even close. He is universally reviled among westerners and the unvaxed, and Quebec separation flourished under his "leadership". Still, you defend him tooth and nail, even when you don't have a leg to stand on. 

He started attacking the energy sector right away when he came into power. The cost of gas/diesel is driving the price of everything up. Instead of using our own coal we're shipping it all the way to China to be burned, as if that's somehow better for the environment. It's all retarded. Along with that, leftist covid histrionics decimated our economy. 

You cheer on everything that leftist leaders say and do to ruin the economy and create division, then you complain about division and the economy. It's like you took the tires off your car and then complained that it's too slow. It boggles the mind.

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and environmental threats.

We need to take morality out of the public dialogue,

BOOM! Your inner leftist is back. I was starting to worry.

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and emphasize compromise and dialogue instead. 

Where's the compromise in vax-Naziism?  

Where's the dialogue in "DON'T SAY BSL4 LAB OR YOU'LL BE BANNED FROM SOCIAL MEDIA! EVERYONE HAS TO SAY THAT THE VAXES WORK. DON'T TALK ABOUT VAXED DEATHS!"?

You aren't in favour of dialogue at all. When the chips are down you toe the party line like Goebbels. Every word you say came right from the CTV teleprompter. 

With the exception a few diehard leftist platitudes noted, hollower words have never been spoken. You're diametrically opposed to almost all of the ideals that you're pretending to promote. 

[myata]

Trump tried to overturn a democratic election. He had no evidence of fraud. Multiple courts have found no evidence of fraud. The party that would decide to support him regardless will be behaving irrationally. I think that if that happens conscious and thinking Republicans either a silent majority or a large minority should be quitting the party.

Expressing  dissatisfaction won't do - will change nothing.

Refusing to vote will change nothing.

Voting for the other party wouldn't change much about the future of the Republican party.

Yes proud traditions sure and no, nothing to do with protest but an entity that has lost its rationality in this kind of proportion and on such an issue simply has no viable future. This kind of idiocy will stick for generations. Not to mention the precedent for the future.

[Queenmandy85]

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

The biggest issues are election security, border security, the economy (which today is the worst in history) and foreign policy.

I started to agree about taking morality out of public dialogue, but there's NOTHING moral about political debate today. It's basically Capitalism versus National Socialism.

Democracy  DIED with Unelected Joe illegally took the oath of office.

You are wrong about one thing. The United States is not a democracy. It is a Republic. I have been flamed more than once by American patriots for calling the US a democracy. I thought you claimed to be a patriot but your post is just woke propaganda.

[West]

13 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The reality is, that like Hitler, Trump tried to overturn the election results in which HE LOST his re-election.

It remains to be seen if Trump will end up in prison like Hitler did for the same crime.

Hitlery tried to overturn 2016 with her bogus investigation into Trump 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes true.

Joseph Goebbels

No it doesn't, when people suspend their disbelief it's a choice they make but they can't make facts change.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

The way I see it, The United States combines elements of both a republic and a democracy. It is a republic because the President is elected by the people and serves as the head of state. It is also a democracy because citizens have the right to vote for their representatives in Congress and other elected officials at the federal, state, and local levels. 

But that is not the way patriots see it. I’ve been flamed so often over that, I should pay rent at the burn unit. 

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You are wrong about one thing. The United States is not a democracy. It is a Republic. I have been flamed more than once by American patriots for calling the US a democracy. I thought you claimed to be a patriot but your post is just woke propaganda.

Republics are democracy. AKA democratic Republic since the representatives are elected by the people.

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, West said:

Hitlery tried to overturn 2016 with her bogus investigation into Trump 

Hillary WAS NOT IN CHARGE and didn't have the power to launch that investigation.

Thanks for proving once again how delusional you are.

Trump's DoJ oversaw the investigation into his Russian collusion.

[West]

34 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Hillary WAS NOT IN CHARGE and didn't have the power to launch that investigation.

Thanks for proving once again how delusional you are.

Trump's DoJ oversaw the investigation into his Russian collusion.

Obama did in her place. 

And you are delusional. This "investigation" was started under that lunatic Comey before the transfer of power and VERY LIKELY Barry knew about it

[robosmith]

19 minutes ago, West said:

Obama did in her place. 

And you are delusional. This "investigation" was started under that lunatic Comey before the transfer of power and VERY LIKELY Barry knew about it

Thanks for admitting you were WRONG (and delusional) about Hillary starting it.

"Very likely" is only your OPINION. The FACT IS, Trump's DoJ oversaw the investigation and COULD HAVE shut it down.

And they DID severely limit its scope.

Edited July 29, 2023 by robosmith

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

Republics are democracy. AKA democratic Republic since the representatives are elected by the people.

As I said, not according to American patriots. They are pretty adamant.

I would have thought Reason 10 would know that.

[West]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Thanks for admitting you were WRONG (and delusional) about Hillary starting it.

"Very likely" is only your OPINION. The FACT IS, Trump's DoJ oversaw the investigation and COULD HAVE shut it down.

And they DID severely limit its scope.

Her sketchy campaign produced the info to Barry. 

Is that why Bill met secretly on the tarmac with Barry's AG?

[myata]

53 minutes ago, West said:

Is that why Bill met secretly on the tarmac with Barry's AG?

Clearly, these people just don't understand the difference between their guesses, dreams even and the reality. Independent institutions, checks and balances, independence of courts, all three centuries of careful conscious work in building world's most powerful and one of the longest democracies have to go down the drain because the Red Clown said so today (important, because yesterday he said something else). They don't understand that they are the product, the result of degradation of democracy by extreme partisanship. Democracy simply cannot exist on these terms, mindless mobs blindly worshiping their idols and trashing everything else around. This is a different, opposite in fact society and they wouldn't want to think and even notice that.

[West]

31 minutes ago, myata said:

Clearly, these people just don't understand the difference between their guesses, dreams even and the reality. Independent institutions, checks and balances, independence of courts, all three centuries of careful conscious work in building world's most powerful and one of the longest democracies have to go down the drain because the Red Clown said so today (important, because yesterday he said something else). They don't understand that they are the product, the result of degradation of democracy by extreme partisanship. Democracy simply cannot exist on these terms, mindless mobs blindly worshiping their idols and trashing everything else around. This is a different, opposite in fact society and they wouldn't want to think and even notice that.

...they started a frivolous investigation into a sitting president which impacted a mid term election and degraded the democratic process, usurping the will of the people...