myata Posted July 4, 2023 Report Posted July 4, 2023 It's telling that the only ones who defend Putin, Trump and such are the ones that easily deny the reality itself. Like saying that Putin did not start the war, one would need some facts, evidence. Who attacked Russia with arms? When? Who crossed its border with violent intents? Nope. Wrong. In that world, the reality is what Trump said last time (very important: because the preceding day it could have been different, down to right the opposite). Human ability to deceive itself has no limits. Do we need any more evidence of that? 1 Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
August1991 Posted July 5, 2023 Author Report Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) On 7/3/2023 at 7:28 AM, OftenWrong said: Pretty sure it stands for North Atlantic. But who am I to judge Oops. NORAD and SEATO. So confusing. ===== Look, in the past, I learned to understand/favour all these agreements: we were facing a Soviet threat. But now, since the 1990s, we Canadians don't need these various treaties. IMHO, we Canadians should leave NATO. (Heck, France did it in 1966.) Edited July 5, 2023 by August1991 Quote
August1991 Posted July 5, 2023 Author Report Posted July 5, 2023 8 hours ago, myata said: It's telling that the only ones who defend Putin, Trump and such are the ones that easily deny the reality itself. Like saying that Putin did not start the war, one would need some facts, evidence. Who attacked Russia with arms? When? Who crossed its border with violent intents? .... I have no desire to defend Putin - a thug. But when the Soviet Union collapsed, by a weird agreement in December 1991, the Ukraine suddenly became large. It was as if Quebec suddenly had New Brunswick and Labrador. Quote
myata Posted July 5, 2023 Report Posted July 5, 2023 10 hours ago, August1991 said: But when the Soviet Union collapsed, by a weird agreement in December 1991, the Ukraine suddenly became large. You are smoking something potent or l-ing. Unfortunately in this universe there aren't any other possibilities. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
August1991 Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/5/2023 at 8:01 AM, myata said: You are smoking something potent or l-ing. Unfortunately in this universe there aren't any other possibilities. I understand that the defeat of the Soviet Union was a long process that started with Truman in Korea, JFK, went through LBJ in Vietnam and eventually Reagan with the Berlin Wall. But the borders of December 1991 are an accident of history. Quote
myata Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 14 hours ago, August1991 said: But the borders of December 1991 are an accident of history. Lying, then. There are no less than six international treaties in which Russia recognized internationally recognized borders of Ukraine. What you are trying to say, in essence, is that international law has no meaning and is inferior to my (Putin's; Hitler's; Xi's) wish. I can sign borders and on a whim, break them away. By force, if I wish so. This of course has nothing to do with civilization. This is what brutal hordes, and dictators do. And then, there are those who try to explain and apologize them. 1 1 Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
I am Groot Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 2:37 AM, August1991 said: Call me a Chinese or Russian Quisling. I don't care. How about demented? On 6/30/2023 at 2:47 PM, WestCanMan said: Zelensky started this war, stop playing stupid. Are you playing stupid or is it the real thing? 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 12:55 AM, August1991 said: In this world after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we don't need NATO. ====== This North American Treaty Organisation is a relic of the past. August1991 is a relic of the past. Quote
Queenmandy85 Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/4/2023 at 10:34 AM, WestCanMan said: A single mom in Portland who has 6 kids from different fathers thought that Putin started this war. What's your point? My reference to the "Moscow Taxi Driver" was referring to President Putin, whom some critics claim that after he left (was fired) from the KGB, became a cab driver in Moscow. Take in the same manner some refer to Prime Minister Trudeau as "Pixie Dust." ? Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
WestCanMan Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: How about demented? Are you playing stupid or is it the real thing? I'm just saying things that are too hard for you to understand. It's the exact same thing as when you were in school, taking grade 3 over and over again. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
myata Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 33 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: I'm just saying things that are too hard for you to understand. Did you mean innocent Russians walked into a foreign land, no visas or permissions, burned a few villages, robbed and raped some citizens.. and then the lawful government of the country dared to show resistance and so "started the war"? If you just lie down before a brutal invader and kiss his boot there would be no war, right? .. only minor repressions, extermination of national culture elites, hunger death, gulag death such little cute things Russia likes to treat her new subjects with. Or were trying to say something even more bizarre? Perhaps in the language that Putin and Hitler speak? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/4/2023 at 10:40 PM, August1991 said: Oops. NORAD and SEATO. So confusing. ===== Look, in the past, I learned to understand/favour all these agreements: we were facing a Soviet threat. But now, since the 1990s, we Canadians don't need these various treaties. IMHO, we Canadians should leave NATO. (Heck, France did it in 1966.) Why is it so important that Canada leave NATO, have you asked yourself what we as a nation would lose in that relationship, and what is it you think we would gain... Yes France did leave, with caveats it would still defend Europe , and then in 2009 rejoined... and today is a full member...not a very good example. 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 1:40 PM, eyeball said: It's just about impossible for me to worry about our defence in the face of so much climate inaction in the world. There is only one direction from which we'll be invaded and we could build a couple big old dirty nukes to deter that at a fraction of 2% of GDP. My argument mirrors the one climate change inactivists use. There's bugger all Canada can do to militarily make the world a better place so why bother? Investing in Nuclear weapons makes no sense at all, everyone knows that Canada would not use them ever, it would not be a deterrent at all, Our nations deterrent is the US plain and simple... Ya good call, blame it all on the climate inactivists... who cares, it is all going to burn to the ground anyways.... lets keep supporting a government whos' best idea is to tax the shit out of fossil fuels and then give that money back to you...here is the kicker... we are not smart enough to figure it out our present course of action is not going to do squat.... but atleast it is better than the conservatives ideas.. Well if you already gave up, step aside, and take Justin and his useless climate change plan with you... And if climate change continues down the same road, lets not invest in anything that could or would make a difference...There is only one group that is semi prepared to handle these floods, storms, fires, other environmental events, thats the military right now , shit we can't even invent a national fire fighting service with planes and people... But we can make sure every teenager still living at home had their 2000 check every month, not to mention the other collecting CERB and still working...ya we can do that but for some reason can't come up with a decent climate change plan or negate some of its outcomes...We as a nation would rather to just whine about it... I'm hoping that some where out there is a Canadian out there that has the brains to put a plan together... And if not then ya, lets all just get a case a beer, a bag of weed, and sit around the fire pit and watch it all burn down... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 1:21 PM, Queenmandy85 said: Article 5 is Canada's best defence against invasion. NATO is essential to our defence. I remember when the NDP policy convention voted to withdraw from NATO, the leader, Ed Broadbent called the idea "Nuts." I am surprised that Nationalist would be supporting the NDP. "Ah, the Norwegian 1905 referendum." Suten a Mai. Take, min venn. Some day NATO is going to look at the freeloaders and say step up or step off... Now that they are looking at 3 % of GDP as their new ceiling , they will find new ways of motivating free loaders like Canada, and our nation will have to decide...what the NATO gives us and c an we live with out it.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Nationalist Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) On 6/30/2023 at 12:21 PM, Queenmandy85 said: Article 5 is Canada's best defence against invasion. NATO is essential to our defence. I remember when the NDP policy convention voted to withdraw from NATO, the leader, Ed Broadbent called the idea "Nuts." I am surprised that Nationalist would be supporting the NDP. "Ah, the Norwegian 1905 referendum." Suten a Mai. Take, min venn. I can think of much better ways to defend Canada and educate young people. Like having our military here, instead of off "peace keeping". Edited July 7, 2023 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 1:58 PM, eyeball said: We pretty much built the 4th largest army from scratch to fight WW2 once we became motivated. Sure there's lots we can do I just think Canadians just need better more realistic reasons. Ya we did it in the past, when we had bolt action rifles, planes took a couple days to make, ships only took 6 months at best... nice analogy... mean while in reality, a lot of our industrial factories and manufacture plants have moved on..no more than distant memories, it takes months and months just to builds a modern fighter plane... years to build a modern ship, and a basic solider needs months of training due to the amount of modern tech he has to learn... We as a nation have learned this lesson every time we had a world war or conflict, young men and young women paid the price of us not being ready even a little bit...not Biggy it's just life's right, its easy to bury them than it is to be some what ready...take a look at the numbers we had before each war of professional soldier, airmen, sailors...see what equipment they had...and we sent men off to war with a wing and prayer...Don't worry it will hit you like a ton of bricks when you get an e-mail from the defense department regretting to inform you that you son/ daughter died fighting in the cheapest equipment we could buy... The war would be over by the time we got ready, and we would be living in the smoking ruins of our cities, or learning to speak another language... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Queenmandy85 Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Some day NATO is going to look at the freeloaders and say step up or step off... Now that they are looking at 3 % of GDP as their new ceiling , they will find new ways of motivating free loaders like Canada, and our nation will have to decide...what the NATO gives us and c an we live with out it.... No argument from me, but just to reach our 2% commitment, the government will have to increase the defence budget by $18 billion per year for starters. That means a hefty increase in taxes levied on an unwilling public. I just had a phone conversation with my MP last week regarding funding for the CBC. It occurs to me that by reducing the purchace of one F-35 would fund the CBC for two years. While there are some of our fellow correspondents on this forum who prefer an F-35 over the CBC, a majority of Canadians use the services of the CBC. We are buying the F-35 in case we go to war. It may never be used (hopefully), or if it is, how much impact would a couple of squadrons have. In other words, how much daily use will the Canadian voter get from the new aircraft, compared to how much daily use will they get from the CBC. If our new investment in Defence is to bolster NATO, F-35's, Leopard II tanks, frigates, and additional brigades of infantry will have no impact in a war with Russia. If war with Russia breaks out, it will be nuclear. There is no such thing as a "limited" nuclear war. Nobody gets a little bit pregnant. NATO is a deterrent against Russia. The only way to deter Russia is with the credible policy that any aggressive move on their part will cause an all out nuclear annihilation of Russia and her allies. It is vital that the reality of that couse of response is real and firm. President Reagan's genius was his ability to communicate with the Soviets that he would do it without hesitation. This was after the Soviets percieved a lack of resolve in the US growing in the 1970's. Any weakening of that firm unwavering policy of MAD will result in WW3. Therefore, Canada should focus on nuclear weapons. We already have the technical capacity to equip the Canadian forces with every level of nuclear weapon. We do not need any outside assistance. When you have enough nukes, you don't need tanks. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me could let me know the difference in price between a surface to surface strategic missile with multiple nuclear warheads and a main battle tank. Now watch to see how long a government lasts after announcing that little change to our defence policy. "If cannot take a joke, you should not have a Defence Policy." Gwynne Dyer c1980. Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
Queenmandy85 Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Army Guy said: The war would be over by the time we got ready, and we would be living in the smoking ruins of our cities, or learning to speak another language... You are an optimist. Most of us would be dead before we could learn much more than "da, neyt or что происходит?" But then the other guys would be dead or dying as well. There is an amazing tendency to want to fight the next war with the tactics of the last war. Nostalgia is a powerful force driving folly. 1 Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
Nationalist Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 Nobody's coming to invade. At worst, Canada could have issues keeping the northern passage sovereign. But nobody's invading here. No the IMF and World Bank proved that nations can be bought. Part of Ukraine is being bought right now...I don't expect marvelous returns though... Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
eyeball Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: The war would be over by the time we got ready, and we would be living in the smoking ruins of our cities, or learning to speak another language... No, we speak the same language that Americans do. I'm quite certain if America invaded you people would welcome them as liberators. 2 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Queenmandy85 Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) Deleted Edited July 8, 2023 by Queenmandy85 Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
OftenWrong Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: Investing in Nuclear weapons makes no sense at all, everyone knows that Canada would not use them ever, Or we could use them upon ourselves! Quote
Army Guy Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: No argument from me, but just to reach our 2% commitment, the government will have to increase the defence budget by $18 billion per year for starters. That means a hefty increase in taxes levied on an unwilling public. I just had a phone conversation with my MP last week regarding funding for the CBC. It occurs to me that by reducing the purchace of one F-35 would fund the CBC for two years. While there are some of our fellow correspondents on this forum who prefer an F-35 over the CBC, a majority of Canadians use the services of the CBC. We are buying the F-35 in case we go to war. It may never be used (hopefully), or if it is, how much impact would a couple of squadrons have. In other words, how much daily use will the Canadian voter get from the new aircraft, compared to how much daily use will they get from the CBC. If our new investment in Defence is to bolster NATO, F-35's, Leopard II tanks, frigates, and additional brigades of infantry will have no impact in a war with Russia. If war with Russia breaks out, it will be nuclear. There is no such thing as a "limited" nuclear war. Nobody gets a little bit pregnant. NATO is a deterrent against Russia. The only way to deter Russia is with the credible policy that any aggressive move on their part will cause an all out nuclear annihilation of Russia and her allies. It is vital that the reality of that couse of response is real and firm. President Reagan's genius was his ability to communicate with the Soviets that he would do it without hesitation. This was after the Soviets percieved a lack of resolve in the US growing in the 1970's. Any weakening of that firm unwavering policy of MAD will result in WW3. Therefore, Canada should focus on nuclear weapons. We already have the technical capacity to equip the Canadian forces with every level of nuclear weapon. We do not need any outside assistance. When you have enough nukes, you don't need tanks. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me could let me know the difference in price between a surface to surface strategic missile with multiple nuclear warheads and a main battle tank. Now watch to see how long a government lasts after announcing that little change to our defence policy. "If cannot take a joke, you should not have a Defence Policy." Gwynne Dyer c1980. Some one please explain to me how we as a nation can spend over 700 bil over the pandemic, and no major rise in taxes.....18 bil in new spending would be a drop in the bucket, hardly a major rise in taxes... Becasue we can not use the F-35 in any other case but as a fighter jet, it is a waste of tax payers money....I guess all those mission in which f-18 flew were a waste of tax dollars as well, Bosnia, Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, protecting our airspace night and day, providing air defense over things like the Olympic games, Canada games, or major political events like the G-7 summit...And all the other support our military has given to the people, like those caught up in forest fires, floods, ice storms, all a waste of time....Not to mention SAR, and the many other services our military give Canadians everyday that is not combat related....As for CBC i mean it speaks for itself really.. I find it funney that for Canadians it has to be about them, we have everything most countries can only dream about, and all i hear is F all of that, we don't need to have global responsibilities, keeping world peace is not in our best interest, todays Canadians are all about themselves.... 2 % of our GDP is asking to much... I don't here the people of Lithuania complaining about Canadian soldier assisting them protecting their country, or the dozens of other countries we have helped protect...and here i thought Canadians were generous, i guess not... Mother Russia does not want to go down in a ball of flames either, but it did not stop them from attacking Ukraine, it is not going to stop China from taking twain, the minute everyone puts up their arms and says fuc* it, that will be the day when the strong take the weak and take as much as they can...nuclear war will happen as soon as we push some one into a corner that is not going to happen... It is not MAD if you only have a few missiles, and besides there are already too many out there already... like we would trust Justin with nuclear arms...while you should take that info on the road, every country with Nuclear weapons' also has a fair size conventional force as well with lots of tanks...maybe nobody else knows that... There are a few polls out recently that state close to 70 percent of Canadians agree with spending more on defense... Gwynne Dyer also spent a lot of his time trying to convince the government to spend more on defense, with detailed documentaries, and what advantages having a robust military has on a nation. and don't him telling them to invest in nuclear toys... Edited July 8, 2023 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 7 hours ago, eyeball said: No, we speak the same language that Americans do. I'm quite certain if America invaded you people would welcome them as liberators. Tell me do you sleep in your bed or under it...WTF would the US want with Canada anyways...they got enough problems with democrat's, that make our conservatives look like the green party....ya becasue that is what their looking for, more lefty's. If you have doubts about where our soldiers loyalties lie, your free to join up and change that...I'll even fly out and drive you to the recruiting station... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Or we could use them upon ourselves! Thats what it would come down to, the left getting ahold of the keys and the right going up in a ball of flames...some days i think it would stop all of the torture of listening to them whine and bicker about useless stuff... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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