Taxpayer funded drag queen camp for 13-year-olds in Winnipeg

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Is your son 18yrs old  . . .  or is he 12 ?

In this scenario he's 13-18.  My son isn't actually in the age range though...

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

In this scenario he's 13-18.  My son isn't actually in the age range though...

Oh look. Still dodging the issue. Imagine.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Oh look. Still dodging the issue. Imagine.

I'm waiting for you to articulate concerns.  Pretty clear that I don't have any.

[Nationalist]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Okay.  Well drag has been around since forever.  You see it as 'social rot'.  Kind of an extreme opinion, I think, given the things that are actually rotting away society right now but ok.  Not sure why it's so controversial now, except that people are making it so.

Why? Simple. It's now being "normalized" and there's nothing "normal" about it.

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm waiting for you to articulate concerns.  Pretty clear that I don't have any.

I've stated them clearly.  Numerous times, starting in the very first post. Why do you feel the need to lie like that? Obviously you're being dishonest and are afraid to address the issue. Simply asking me to say it again and again and again isn't a serious effort to have a discussion.

Heck, you can't even be honest about what  you said.

Which leads me to believe that you do have strong feelings, you do have a horse in the race and you're afraid that if the issues get discussed then people will arrive at a conclusion you don't like. Why else work so hard to avoid the issue which i've posted a half dozen times and to you specifically.

Not that we expect left wingers to be honest people these days. Unfortunate.

So we'll leave that as your answer then. Those on the left obviously believe there's something to be hidden here.

[I am Groot]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm waiting for you to articulate concerns.  Pretty clear that I don't have any.

Nor standards.

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Keep lying to yourself.  Look around and see where it's getting you.  Are people getting more accpeting of gays and trans right now?

You started the war - your side insisted it be confrontational and that people had to pick a side.

Now you want to 'roll  your eyes' and have it go away. That ain't gonna work.  And this ends VERY badly for gays and trans if it continues. But by all means - you keep going.

It's only the culture war when anyone objects to the antisocial corrupting things they do - which they do specifically and only to tick off conservatives. 

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, Nationalist said:

No that, my friend, is calling intentional social rot what it is...social rot.

Its one thing to be attracted to the same sex, and quite another to pretend to be the opposite sex.

It's not even pretending to be the opposite sex. It's putting on a wildly exaggerated sexualized show of being of the opposite sex. Kind of like that psychotic teacher with his giant fake breasts. "This is what a woman is, you see." Ya, bullshit.

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Okay.  Well drag has been around since forever.  You see it as 'social rot'.  Kind of an extreme opinion, I think,

Drag queens have been a social rot as long as I've been alive, inextricably bound together with street prostitution and the most extreme kinds of sex, including violent sex. Now they want to put drag queens in front of children? Seriously?

Like this guy, from a recent Niagara Falls show?

Edited June 15, 2023 by I am Groot

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

It's only the culture war when anyone objects to the antisocial corrupting things they do - which they do specifically and only to tick off conservatives. 

Well it may start out that way but politicians and those who profit from such conflicts take it to the next level. Obama stoked the fires to build his 'intersectional coalition' to win his first election. BLM's people have made themselves very rich over it.  Etc etc.

Hate is very profitable as it turns out.

[impartialobserver]

On 6/13/2023 at 2:37 PM, Michael Hardner said:

S'ok.... I don't support buying sports Stadiums for teams that already make money so please absolutely DO state what you do and don't support.   Last year the Manitoba Theatre got about $200K.  Skydome was probably about a Billion dollars in current money.

So, yeah... we all like things and don't like things....

Dressing in drag is not an artistic function such as dance, theatre, music, etc. It is more akin to lifestyle hence the lack of support. If this was some workshop on how to dress and act like a woman for the explicit purpose of theatre.. that's a bit different. 

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Dressing in drag is not an artistic function such as dance, theatre, music, etc. It is more akin to lifestyle hence the lack of support. If this was some workshop on how to dress and act like a woman for the explicit purpose of theatre.. that's a bit different. 

Sure.  Funding the arts is a little questionable at the best of times, and it can be contentious such as when it spills over into gov'ts spending for sports arenas and such, but there is SOME logic and history in the idea that a gov't is supposed to support and preserve national culture.

Just as there's a requirement to provide defense, whether you like the military or not. And there's a requirement for foreign relations and dimplomacy whether you plan to travel or not.

But there is no national imperative to support people cross dressing.  So spending public funds on it is highly questionable during normal times, but especially right now when tensions are so high regarding the issue.

It just breeds more hatred and division and is that really what we need right now.

[Nefarious Banana]

Going to let your 12yr. old son go to gender bender 'grooming camp'  Mike?

Shop for lace and lingerie after completing his indoctrination ?

Every impressionable non-adult boy should have a father-figure like you . . . 

It's not 'art' Mike !

[impartialobserver]

If my son started to say stuff like he thought that he was a girl, I would listen and then tell him to give it time. If by the time he is 18 and still has these thoughts then it is up to him to act upon them or not. 

As for a drag camp.. it is not like the participants can't afford it on their own. If it means so much to them.. then find a way. When I was a teenager, I was obsessed with rock music (still am to this day). I found a way to earn the money to acquire the tapes and cd's. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Dressing in drag is not an artistic function such as dance, theatre, music, etc. It is more akin to lifestyle hence the lack of support. If this was some workshop on how to dress and act like a woman for the explicit purpose of theatre.. that's a bit different. 

Sure, but there's a lot more to it and just putting on the clothing. I would absolutely argue against the idea that it's not an artistic function, because music is definitely that, and this is about singing. If it's not about singing, then I retract everything I said about this program.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

1. I've stated them clearly.  Numerous times, starting in the very first post.  

2. Which leads me to believe that you do have strong feelings ...

1. Ok - I will quote that and see again what I missed.
2. I have strong feelings and opinions against bad politics but I have no personal stake into whether this happens or not, ie. nobody I know will be participating in this in any way.

Here's the OP.

Quote

1. So this upsets people from a number of points of view. Many will look at this as a 'grooming camp'.
2.  may be very unhappy about spending 3/4 of a million dollars to support it out of their own money.
 

1. So some people mistakenly think that this is grooming.  That's a problem of education on their part.  I don't see why policy needs to change because some people are frivolously upset, and it is frivolous.

2. They're supporting the theatre, and Heritage Canada supports theatre at arm's length.  A few people who mistakenly think that grooming is happening isn't enough to change the system so they can veto things they don't like.  We already addressed this point above.

So - yeah - I guess you did voice your concerns but I also answered them.  Doesn't really seem like there's much point here other than:

"Some people don't like this thing.  They won't be happy about government supporting it."

I guess, welcome to a country of 40 million where this happens 365 days of the year.  

You don't get to cancel what I think is a good idea, and vice versa.

[eyeball]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:06 AM, CdnFox said:

'grooming camp'.

?

[RedDog]

Canada continues to entertain. I just don’t want to finance it.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok - I will quote that and see again what I missed.
2. I have strong feelings and opinions against bad politics but I have no personal stake into whether this happens or not, ie. nobody I know will be participating in this in any way.

You've literally spent a dozen posts dodging the issue and trying to claim nonsnense like this is just theatre. You very clearly have a personal stake even if it's simply in your head. '

Quote

. So some people mistakenly think that this is grooming.  That's a problem of education on their part.  I don't see why policy needs to change because some people are frivolously upset, and it is frivolous.

You think a young girl being verbally assaulted because she has short hair is frivolous? You think violence against gays and trans which is on the rise is frivolous?

wow.  Didn't you claim just the other day to be a moral person? Yet you dismiss the social conflict as 'frivolous' and you see no reason it shouldn't change.  So much for morals.

 

Quote

2. They're supporting the theatre,

And teh theatre is supporting this. No theatre no this.  So - just cut funding to the theatre and the problem is gone right? The theatre can do whatever it wants.
 

Quote

So - yeah - I guess you did voice your concerns but I also answered them.

How odd considering you swore up and down for several posts i didn't.  And Nope - you dodged 'em.    "well sure they're funding the theatre".   Ok...  we knew that... and is that a good idea given the violence and rise in tensions we're seeing, never mind is it fair? All unanswered.

Very dishonest.
 

Quote

"Some people don't like this thing.  They won't be happy about government supporting it."

And given the violence and outrage should those people be forced to support it financially.
 

Quote

I guess, welcome to a country of 40 million where this happens 365 days of the year.  

More fake denial. Rape happens every day in a country of 40 million - so that's fine by you too right? What a horrible excuse.
 

Quote

You don't get to cancel what I think is a good idea, and vice versa.

I DO get to defund it though.  As i said many times if there's no public money then fine - people can do that they want.  But if people are paying for it then they get a say. Sorry.

It's a shame you and other liberals don't take this seriously.  A discussion could be had and understandings could be reached.  But - all you've proven is that the best thing we can do is just ignore the good the theatre does and shut down all funding to address the issue before it gets out of hand.  There's no honest discussion with you.

[Dougie93]

29 minutes ago, RedDog said:

Canada continues to entertain. I just don’t want to finance it.

technically it is all debt financed anyways

the Bank of Canada is simply printing new dollars to fund the government at this point

your taxes don't actually pay for things, that is an illusion

the bond market doesn't even buy Canadian debt anymore

rather the central bank is buying its own bonds

so your "payment" comes in the form of inflation

everything is more expensive because inflation of the money supply

Canada debases its currency, thus you'll simply have to hedge to avoid the consequences

in general, look to these qualities for hedging

1) Physical assets with longevity
2) Ready market of exchange; multinational demand
3) No incumbent debt associated with the asset
4) Transportable and easy to store
5) Scarcity – finite supply
6) Relative uniformity of product
7) No income stream – so no tax liability
8 Relatively uncorrelated to equities
9) A sovereign debt default would not alter any of the above traits
10) No specific currency of denomination

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

1. You think a young girl being verbally assaulted because she has short hair is frivolous? You think violence against gays and trans which is on the rise is frivolous?

2.  So - just cut funding to the theatre and the problem is gone right? The theatre can do whatever it wants.

3. I DO get to defund it though.     

4. But if people are paying for it then they get a say. Sorry.

5. It's a shame you and other liberals don't take this seriously.   

1.  No, but how is that related to Drag class exactly ?  The same people who are upset about drag class are the ones yelling at kids with short hair, I have no doubt.
2. So the case for cutting the funding is... parents yelling at kids they think are trans ?  What is the objective case here ?  If there are attacks against a minority group we should stop funding what gets the attackers upset ?  I don't get it.
3. Well, no but you get to ASK for defunding it.  And you'll probably be ignored but your MP should at least respond to your email - that much you are owed.
4. Absolutely yes, good luck.
5. No I don't take it seriously.  There doesn't appear to be any serious reasoning behind it that I can see ?

Do you remember the big controversy from the Reform Party when the federal government-funded art museum purchased an expensive painting ?

[Michael Hardner]

OOPS... the Voice of Fire controversy was 34 years ago !  Jeebus I am an old skeleton goddam...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Holtmann

 

Mea Culpa - it was a drunk driver Conservative MP Pig Farmer from Manitoba who didn't like the purchase.  Not to disparage his hobby and career, but so it is.

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  No, but how is that related to Drag class exactly ?  The same people who are upset about drag class are the ones yelling at kids with short hair, I have no doubt.

 

is there some sort of reading or comprehension issue you struggle with that i should be aware of to make this easier?

As i have said... several times...  this is a serious issue and at the moment very polerizing.  Antagonizing people needlessly is not smart. So why are we spending public money on it?

Quote

So the case for cutting the funding is... parents yelling at kids they think are trans ?  What is the objective case here ?  If there are attacks against a minority group we should stop funding what gets the attackers upset ?  I don't get it.

I've explained it a few times now.  I think that we're just going to have to accept it's over your head.

 

Quote

3. Well, no but you get to ASK for defunding it.

No, we can defund it.  of course i'm sure you'll complain at the time just like when we defund the cbc.  But - always remember you had a choice to have a civil discussion about it and you chose not to so there you go.

 

Quote

5. No I don't take it seriously. 

Of course not - There's no law that says you have to care if someone you don't know suffers from violence after all and obviously that kind of thing doesn't bother you. 

But you sure as heck ain't gonna be able to claim that you're a moral person any more   The moral code you live by is "don't care if it ain't happenin' to me".

[I am Groot]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

OOPS... the Voice of Fire controversy was 34 years ago !  Jeebus I am an old skeleton goddam...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Holtmann

 

Mea Culpa - it was a drunk driver Conservative MP Pig Farmer from Manitoba who didn't like the purchase.  Not to disparage his hobby and career, but so it is.

Nobody liked the purchase except effete liberal urbanites who had liberal arts degrees.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

1.  So why are we spending public money on it?

2. I've explained it a few times now.  I think that we're just going to have to accept it's over your head.

3. Just like when we defund the cbc. 

4. You had a choice to have a civil discussion about it and you chose not to so there you go.

5.  obviously that kind of thing doesn't bother you. 

6. But you sure as heck ain't gonna be able to claim that you're a moral person any more.

7. The moral code you live by is "don't care if it ain't happenin' to me".

1. Well, it's arms-length funding.  If you want to change how THAT works, then that's a major issue.  And you'll be opening the door for Trudeau to personally veto programming he doesn't agree with.    You would have to institute a major policy change, and bring in a huge amount of bureaucracy to have some committee decide on which Theatres receive funding based on some 'controversy'.  

I don't accept that controversial views should be defunded, and I don't see this issue getting a lot of traction.

2. No, I get it.  I just don't agree with the premise sorry.

3. I really hope the CBC isn't defunded.  It seems Poilievre is smart enough not to defund the entire CBC but let's see.  Defunding the CBC is a whole other kettle of fish, anyway.

4. I feel that this discussion is civil, but it's also limited in what can be said.  What more do you want from me ?  If you have new points I can tell you what I think.  I Do think arms-length funding reduces bureaucracy and stops government from meddling in the arts too much.  In particular, I have absolutely no problem with Drag Class.  Not sure how many people do.  I guarantee you if it is a majority the Liberals will find a way to defund it.   Sorry if you don't like Drag Class, but I'm sure you have some pet projects that are funded that I'm against too.

5. Not a fan of violence and threats but kotowing to conspiracy 1diots has never been my favourite way to deal with them.  IN comparison, the Convoy - which had a far broader and more reasonable base of support - still wasn't supported by a majority of Canadians and so when it went away that was that.

6. Of course I"m a moral person.  Just because you want to give a cracked-egg parent at a kid's sporting even the power to cancel arts events doesn't make you moral.  It kind of makes you naive and uninformed in my book, but that's just me.  I could be wrong, and by heaven I wouldn't want to disparage a fine poster like yourself who deserves the flattery of the wise... my God no.

7. No, they dealt with cracked-egg dad by banning him from sporting events.  Problem solved and most sane parents will sigh in relief.  You seem to be saying that they should have dealt with the child he attacked, not sure what else to conclude here.

As I say, if you have new points we can keep the 'civil' conversation going.   'Civil' meaning that you call me comprehension-challenged, immoral and other things I guess... But sure keep it going.  If I decline to respond it's because you are on ignore so just DM me to let me know.

 

----

Key point to others reading this post -> if you use the term 'groomer', implying that people are secretly preparing kids for their own nefarious purposes, then your posts are likely not well-founded or serious.  Try to not use that term.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well, it's arms-length funding.

So obviously we should cancel it then.  they can always look at funding on a program by program later. but if people are paying for it and not getting a say then why pay for it at all?

Not to mention it's fueling the frictions that lead to violence right now.  I think we need to defund more than just the cbc, all of these groups should be funded privately.