"Wokeness" Has Replaced Socialism as the Great Conservative Bogeyman

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Nope. Original use was quite DIFFERENT. Sorry but YOU (and right wingers) don't get to redefine the original meaning

Nope. Not a recognized source for definitions. The dictionary definition i gave is factual.

Sorry big guy - you're wrong. Oh - and yeah i absolutely get to define it any way i like if i'm using the word. Words evolve constantly. But more importantly - websters gets to define it. It's kind of their thing

swing and a miss    The left started it, the left used it frequently to refer to any of their ideas, the rest of the world realized those ideas are largely bad thinking not based in fact and now 'woke' is a pejorative term because left wing thinking has become so poor it's insulting to be said to be thinking that way.

Sucks to be you

 

[Rebound]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

nonsense. thats the kind of trivial mental diarrhea some on the left push but it's a dumb thing to say or think.  I don't like sad movies. Woke isn't sad movies.  Woke is specifically ideology that is recognized as left wing or far left. Often something that is more about 'muh feels' than facts.  It's not just anything someone doesn't like. 

So “woke” is any political opinion which you disagree with? 
is there any “woke” idea which you agree with?

[CdnFox]

Just now, Rebound said:

So “woke” is any political opinion which you disagree with? 
is there any “woke” idea which you agree with?

Man... it's really looking like this concept may be over your head. I don't understand, it seems pretty simple to me but you really are struggling with it. I'm sorry - we may have to wait for a conversation that's more your speed, where you can get your head around the basics. I can't explain it more simply than i did and you still can't figure it out, i'm not sure what i can do to help you.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

America was great during the Reagan administration, where the economy was the best of all time and America's deadliest enemy (The Soviet Union) was defeated by this great president without firing a shot.

Yes, the Russian people and the failure of their system to deliver essentials had absolutely nothing to do with it.. It was all Ronny Reagan and the Glorious Yanks. The only thing 'great' was being awash with coke at $30 a gram...

[Rebound]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Man... it's really looking like this concept may be over your head. I don't understand, it seems pretty simple to me but you really are struggling with it. I'm sorry - we may have to wait for a conversation that's more your speed, where you can get your head around the basics. I can't explain it more simply than i did and you still can't figure it out, i'm not sure what i can do to help you.

No, honestly it’s because you invented your own definition for the term. 
Black people have used the expression for many years to describe a white person who understood their plight.  

[BeaverFever]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, that would be dumb. Conservatives are strongly against slavery. Being pro slavery would not be 'woke'.  Conservatives are against burning dogs for fun. That would not mean burning dogs was woke.

There are even some ideas that both the left and the right agree on more or less, so they span political lines and couldn't be said to be left wing.

Left wing ideology is specifically that ideology which is accepted by the left exclusively by the left. just as right wing ideology is ideology accepted by the right and not accepted by the left.

This is pretty straight forward.

You’re right it is dumb. Conservatives are not above pretending burning dogs and slavery are left wing and therefore woke. In fact many on this forum still try to falsely equate slavery and segregation with the “left wing”  simply because the Democrat party tolerated those ideas from its southern constituents despite the fact that by all definitions the political beliefs of those southerners were conservative. 
 

 

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Said no one ever.

Wrong. Republicans are banning “woke” books across the USA. Florida and Texas are among the worst offenders. 
 

Republicans throw around the word woke whenever they want to try and get away with something that people wouldn’t otherwise tolerate

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, Rebound said:

No, honestly it’s because you invented your own definition for the term. 

But i posted the DICTIONARY definition.  And that's what i use.

See - over your head.

14 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Black people have used the expression for many years to describe a white person who understood their plight.  

Good for them - as i said it includes intersectionality. BUt that's Not ALL it includes.

Sorry man. Some time when we have a topic that's more your speed lets try again

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, herbie said:

Truthfully, woke is the bogeyman of the GOP not all Conservatives.

Truthfully, woke is just code for 1diotic and it's not just conservatives that think that way.

My mother in law is a vax-cultist who voted for the liberals, she will likely vote for Trudeau again even if she won't admit to it, and even she laughs at wokeists.

Not all leftists are in favour of drag queen story hour, protests at SCJ's homes, rioting/arson/looting, climatards, expensive gas, forgiving student debt, castrating kids without parental approval, banning the word "mom", etc. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by WestCanMan

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

You’re right it is dumb.

Yes, i was aware of that. 

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Conservatives are not above pretending burning dogs and slavery are left wing and therefore woke.

Now YOU'RE dumb   show me an example of right wingers claiming the left is pro slavery or dog burning.

The voices in your head are not your friends.

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

In fact many on this forum still try to falsely equate slavery and segregation with the “left wing”  simply because the Democrat party tolerated those ideas from its southern constituents despite the fact that by all definitions the political beliefs of those southerners were conservative. 

Actually that did happen, as you know.  But i doubt anyone here is suggesting the left wants to bring back slavery. The left on the other hand has said such things about the right

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/okay-gop-presidential-fie_b_8014798

OK, GOP Presidential Field, Who's for Bringing Back Slavery?

So the left literally does what you cry the right will do, but doesn't.

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Wrong. Republicans are banning “woke” books across the USA. Florida and Texas are among the worst offenders.

Sorry - still right.  They're not banning books because they're 'woke'. They're banning books because of sexual content that is inappropriate for children FROM SCHOOL LIBRARIES where children can access them.

So they're not actually banning any books. The books will be published and available, Just not in schools. They also don't allow mein kampf.  Some things are inappropriate for young people at school.

Remember what i taught you about if you have to lie to make a point, it's probably not a good point?

On the other hand the left DEMANDED that some dr seuss books be cancelled   - so  again accusing the right of doing what the left is doing

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 

Republicans throw around the word woke whenever they want to try and get away with something that people wouldn’t otherwise tolerate

the left tried to make the term popular, but now is pissed off because now people recognize those same left wing ideas it ALWAYS stood for are dumb. And they're sick of it.

That's why - get woke go broke.  People are done with that kind of stupid and while the left was proud of 'woke', now they're trying to pretend it has nothing to do with them. 

Sorry - woke is being correctly used, people just don't like you.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Truthfully, woke is just code for 1diotic and it's not just conservatives that think that way.

My mother in law is a vax-cultist who voted for the liberals, she will likely vote for Trudeau again even if she won't admit to it, and even she laughs at wokeists.

Not all leftists are in favour of drag queen story hour, protests at SCJ's homes, rioting/arson/looting, climatards, expensive gas, forgiving student debt, castrating kids without parental approval, banning the word "mom", etc. 

Well  - sure - there's the 'soft left' or 'llberal left' as we say here who are basically just left of center who also think the seriously left or radical left are bonkers. And fair enough.

 

[WestCanMan]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Well  - sure - there's the 'soft left' or 'llberal left' as we say here who are basically just left of center who also think the seriously left or radical left are bonkers. And fair enough.

The first example I can think of for "wokeness" was when Oprah declared that men who noticed that their wife got fat were evil. 

Men needed be excoriated and shamed for anything they did wrong, or even anything that their ancestors did wrong, but God forbid you notice an extra 30 lbs on your wife's ass. 

[robosmith]

56 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Man... it's really looking like this concept may be over your head. I don't understand, it seems pretty simple to me but you really are struggling with it. I'm sorry - we may have to wait for a conversation that's more your speed, where you can get your head around the basics. I can't explain it more simply than i did and you still can't figure it out, i'm not sure what i can do to help you.

Things are always "simple" when you make up your own word definitions or pretend that the mangled definitions are definitive.

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Things are always "simple" when you make up your own word definitions or pretend that the mangled definitions are definitive.

That's actually a woke mantra. Did you mean to do that? 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The first example I can think of for "wokeness" was when Oprah declared that men who noticed that their wife got fat were evil. 

Men needed be excoriated and shamed for anything they did wrong, or even anything that their ancestors did wrong, but God forbid you notice an extra 30 lbs on your wife's ass. 

Well that would be an example of that 'intersectionality' i mentioned.  And it's pretty hilarious. I think the first one where i heard that term was two people discussing that if you don't date trans people you're a sexist and a nazi.  And the  one said 'People need to get woke' or the like. that's when it was still a 'good' term for the left 

But i've heard it applied to other things - like AOC's climate plan change where she was going to ban airplanes and trains, and every home had to be upgraded to a high standard of insulation - like EVERY SINGLE HOME IN THE US - within 10 years, and there was a bunch of other nonsense.  People called it her 'woke climate plan'.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Things are always "simple" when you make up your own word definitions or pretend that the mangled definitions are definitive.

It's even more simple when you use the dictionary definition.    and yet - despite being that simple, you still can't figure it out. Well - i' m sure we can find SOMETHING that's simple enough even for YOU to discuss if we try hard. How high can you count?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Hello Robo, let's debate reasonably. 

1. Conservatives value individual responsibility over collective identity politics, which "Wokeness" promotes.

 

Says who? If you are "woke," that means you acknowledge the unfairness of culture wars which deny equal rights to minorities; esp including those whom SOME religions condemn as being "sinful".

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

"Wokeness" can lead to a cancel culture where dissenting opinions are silenced, which goes against the principles of free speech and open debate that conservatives value.

"Dissenting" opinions in which consensual private behaviors are condemned as sinful, or made unlawful, are not subject to free speech protections.

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

The excessive focus on identity politics and "Wokeness" distracts from addressing actual systemic issues and challenges that impact everyone, regardless of identity or background. Conservatives believe in addressing these challenges through practical, evidence-based solutions rather than ideological or identity-based ones.

Who says "woke" persons do not?

 

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Also, Conservatives do not need the assistance from the fringes of the right, big boys can handle debating people from the left like you, any day. At least you are sane, for a Californian.
 

Really? Can they do it without juvenile name calling or LYING? Not here in my experience.

 

Quote

Signed, former right ->, now a Centrist (=).

 

Your "former rightness" is not hidden very well.

Edited April 7, 2023 by robosmith

[Americana Antifa]

Probably the most popular and lasting strategy of conservative propaganda has to do with the idea that everything was great, then something came along and ruined it all. Conservatives have done this in every decade. It's always about how we just need to go back to how things were, though the time we need to go back to always changes, since this is just propaganda and nothing more. Basically, they've always claimed we need to make America great again.

For a while, the thing that came along and destroyed everything was socialism. But eventually, Americans began associating "socialism" with social democracy, which is actually very popular. So while Republicans still fear-monger about socialism, they needed something new that they can blame all of the bad things on. For a while it was "cancel culture" and "critical race theory." Now they seem to have settled on "wokeness." America was based AF, but then the woke came along and messed it all up.

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Probably the most popular and lasting strategy of conservative propaganda has to do with the idea that everything was great, then something came along and ruined it all. Conservatives have done this in every decade. It's always about how we just need to go back to how things were, though the time we need to go back to always changes, since this is just propaganda and nothing more. Basically, they've always claimed we need to make America great again.

For a while, the thing that came along and destroyed everything was socialism. But eventually, Americans began associating "socialism" with social democracy, which is actually very popular. So while Republicans still fear-monger about socialism, they needed something new that they can blame all of the bad things on. For a while it was "cancel culture" and "critical race theory." Now they seem to have settled on "wokeness." America was based AF, but then the woke came along and messed it all up.

Well that's all pretty much untrue.  But it's a popular trope on the left.

In fact - if you look through the winning campaigns of pretty much all the presidents they all do the same thing, and only trump really did the 'lets make america great AGAIN" routine.  They either come up with a cutsie name and slogan for themselves (i like ike) or they come up wiht a slogan saying it's time for positive change

Like Kennedy's for example - "it's time to make america great" . Sound familiar?

So no - tehy don't pretend we have to go back to anything, they ALL simply acknowledge that things need to change and capitalize on that.  And they all do the same thing. Change! We need change! We can make america great! We can do things differently this time! Yes we can!

Carter - a leader for change!

regan - Let's Make America Great Again (kennedy already stole lets make america great)

Also regan the next time - its a new morning for america

Bush - we need a 'kinder gentler nation"

Clinton - for people ,for a change!

Barrack - Change we can believe in.

And of course Biden - "opur best days lie ahead" (Change again)

 

It's always the same republican or democrat.  If it's their first term - the message is that the country is going in the wrong direction and they'll make a change for the better. And it's telling that kennedy used 'make america great' the first time.

If it's their second one it's basically "sorry - we'll get it right this time".

But as we all know - the alt left like you  DO love their fairy tales.

 

[Americana Antifa]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well that's all pretty much untrue.  But it's a popular trope on the left.

In fact - if you look through the winning campaigns of pretty much all the presidents they all do the same thing, and only trump really did the 'lets make america great AGAIN" routine.  They either come up with a cutsie name and slogan for themselves (i like ike) or they come up wiht a slogan saying it's time for positive change

Like Kennedy's for example - "it's time to make america great" . Sound familiar?

Can you please stop proving my point?

Kennedy said make America great, not make America great again. Kennedy was about moving forward. Whereas politicians like Reagan and Bush were about "returning" to family values.

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So no - tehy don't pretend we have to go back to anything, they ALL simply acknowledge that things need to change and capitalize on that.  And they all do the same thing. Change! We need change! We can make america great! We can do things differently this time! Yes we can!

Most politicians do harp on and on about change, but they talk about change in different ways. With Republicans, it's about returning to the past, whereas with Democrats, it's about taking a different strategy for moving forward. When Biden talks about change, it's all about how stupidly optimistic he is for the future. And the reasons he gives are always based around the younger generations being more progressive.

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Can you please stop proving my point?

Kennedy said make America great, not make America great again.

Yeah - that really doesn't prove your point at all

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Kennedy was about moving forward.

No, he was about exploiting the public's desire for change. Same as the rest. Sorry.

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Whereas politicians like Reagan and Bush were about "returning" to family values.

Regan never mentioned 'returning to values' in the slightest. He was all about the same thing as kennedy - exploit the public sense that things are going off track and say he'll put them on track.

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Most politicians do harp on and on about change, but they talk about change in different ways.

Nope -it's always the same.  "Things are a mess, i'll change them".   ti's the same message every time for the non incumbent. IF they want to win.
 

The lie here is that the lefties think it's different when their person says exactly the same thing

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

With Republicans, it's about returning to the past, whereas with Democrats, it's about taking a different strategy for moving forward.

Nope - it s precisely the same for both.

43 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

When Biden talks about change, it's all about how stupidly optimistic he is for the future. And the reasons he gives are always based around the younger generations being more progressive.

It's about being stupidly optimistic about the future for each and every one.  And 'the children are our future' is also a popular one for both sides, but when it does show up it's secondary or tertiary.

There's no difference. It's the same. It's a complete lie to say otherwise. And there's a reason it's the same - it works. All you have to do is try to think of a new way of saying "i'll change things for the better" that hopefully hasn't been used too much before.

The difference here is that you're blinded by your hatred, bigotry and ideology so you are mentally unable to see it or cope with the idea that the republicans share ANYTHING in common with your beloved left.

Where as i am sane and intelligent and assess things based on fact - so its clear as a bell. Republicans, democrats, conservatives, liberals, they all use the same line against an incumbent and it works. There's no difference except inside your teeny tiny little mind.

[robosmith]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah - that really doesn't prove your point at all

Regan never mentioned 'returning to values' in the slightest. He was all about the same thing as kennedy - exploit the public sense that things are going off track and say he'll put them on track.

Reagan said "Make America Great AGAIN" long before Trump. That is returning to a previous time when America was GREAT.

You keep contradicting yourself and reality.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Reagan said "Make America Great AGAIN" long before Trump. That is returning to a previous time when America was GREAT.

You... ahhh - you realize i pointed that out. It's no contradiction at all. Kennedy said lets make america great as well.

Sure. It's a common theme. Kennedy basically said the same thing -  "Hey - things have gone off the rails, we can get back to being great as soon as we get rid of this guy who's ruined eveyrthing".

To listen to you anyone who uses the word "again" means "lets bring back slavery"

Even trump it wasn't about going back to values. His "again" was to bring good paying jobs back, to be respected and feared appropriately around the world, to have a strong economy.  It wasn't to lock up gays.

Obama was no different.

Only diehard lefties would fail to see it's the same message over and over and over.  Justin trudeau - a leader who's even futher right than anyone in american history -  his theme was "canada is "back"". 

It's the same crap from all of them.  The people challenging the incumbent argue for change. "Things are out of whack, we'll bring them back to what they should be and things will be awesome".  It's the same message again and again.

There is ZERO difference between the left and the right in that regard.

Edited April 7, 2023 by CdnFox

[robosmith]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You... ahhh - you realize i pointed that out. It's no contradiction at all. Kennedy said lets make america great as well.

Sure. It's a common theme. Kennedy basically said the same thing -  "Hey - things have gone off the rails, we can get back to being great as soon as we get rid of this guy who's ruined eveyrthing".

To listen to you anyone who uses the word "again" means "lets bring back slavery"

Even trump it wasn't about going back to values. His "again" was to bring good paying jobs back, to be respected and feared appropriately around the world, to have a strong economy.  It wasn't to lock up gays.

Obama was no different.

Only diehard lefties would fail to see it's the same message over and over and over.  Justin trudeau - a leader who's even futher right than anyone in american history -  his theme was "canada is "back"". 

It's the same crap from all of them.  The people challenging the incumbent argue for change. "Things are out of whack, we'll bring them back to what they should be and things will be awesome".  It's the same message again and again.

There is ZERO difference between the left and the right in that regard.

AGAIN mean going back. Without the "again," there is NO IMPLICATION of returning to a previous time.

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, robosmith said:

AGAIN mean going back. Without the "again," there is NO IMPLICATION of returning to a previous time.

No - it does not.  If i win a race, and then i'm going to race again and i say I hope i win again - i'm not saying that i want to go back to the previous race. I'm saying that moving forward i intend to repeat my success in a new race.

As in - Americans built  a great nation - we will repeat that success and build a great nation again. Doesn't mean it's going to be the SAME as last time  but that americans will succeed in building something great again.

Which is an obvious interpretation of 'again'.   We did something before and we can do it again.  It is your bias that prevents you from seeing the obvious there and interpreting it in a negative light.

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Regan never mentioned 'returning to values' in the slightest. He was all about the same thing as kennedy - exploit the public sense that things are going off track and say he'll put them on track.

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/06/17/us/campaign-notes-reagan-asks-for-return-to-traditional-values.html

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/06/16/Reagan-appeals-for-traditional-family-values/4992456206400/

Again, I know you won't read any article I post. Those are for other people here who are curious.

Conservative propaganda is always about a return to when America was great. During the two-thousands, it was about returning to the eighties. During the eighties, it was about returning to the fifties. During the fifties, it was about returning to the twenties.

 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's about being stupidly optimistic about the future for each and every one.  And 'the children are our future' is also a popular one for both sides, but when it does show up it's secondary or tertiary.

Biden doesn't just say the children are our future, he says America's best days are ahead because the zoomers are more progressive. His claim, whether you agree with it or not, is that America is going to continue getting better as we become more progressive. This is the opposite of the right-wing idea that we need to return to traditional values.