Is this another example of things being broken in the government.

[Army Guy]

CRA tells the media that it is not worth the effort to collect the 15 plus billion in COVID-19 wage subsidy overpayments. And last year they sent me a letter saying i had miscalculated my income tax and owed them an additional 120.00, and it had a due date and i would be charged interest if no payment was received by that date...But 15 bil well thats simply not worth the effort...But it does not stop there $27.4 billion in suspected emergency aid benefits overpayments as well which has yet to have any action taken on...

Is this the new work ethic of governmental employees , not worth the effort, maybe it is time to start cleaning out these employees and hiring someone that atleast put's in the effort as if it was their tax dollars that other Canadians falsely claimed...I wonder what these guys get paid an hour, to be so complacent. If this is not a huge red flag for liberal voters I'm not sure what is. 

CRA head's statement it's 'not worth the effort' to recover all of $15.5 billion in potential wage subsidy overpayments 'disconcerting': PBO (msn.com)

[blackbird]

The health care system could sure use that 15 billion dollars.  It is in a crisis.

[Moonbox]

The statement isn't that it's not worth the effort to collect any of the overpayments.  He said it wasn't worth the effort to review or collect all of it. 

I don't really agree with his position, but then we gutted the CRA back in the Harper years and Canada has become a hotbed of tax evasion and criminal money laundering for awhile now.  The Trudeau government's done nothing to improve the situation.  

Simply put, we've understaffed the only agency in the country responsible for government revenue and can barely even go after the most egregious and obvious offenders.  The average business owner can get away with almost anything these days, and only the remote fear of audits keeps any of them honest.   

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Moonbox

[Moonlight Graham]

From the article:

"He was referring to testimony by CRA commissioner Bob Hamilton to MPs in late January that “it wouldn’t be worth the effort” to review and try to recover every dollar of $15.5 billion in Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy (CEWS) payments recently flagged by the auditor general. "

If they can get 90% of it back i'm fine with that.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Moonlight Graham

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The statement isn't that it's not worth the effort to collect any of the overpayments.  He said it wasn't worth the effort to review or collect all of it. 

I don't really agree with his position, but then we gutted the CRA back in the Harper years and Canada has become a hotbed of tax evasion and criminal money laundering for awhile now.  The Trudeau government's done nothing to improve the situation.  

Simply put, we've understaffed the only agency in the country responsible for government revenue and can barely even go after the most egregious and obvious offenders.  The average business owner can get away with almost anything these days, and only the remote fear of audits keeps any of them honest.   

 

 

My point was if they can send me a letter that i owe them 120, extra dollars why would it not be worth it to collect all of it ? considering one would think it is worth more than 120.00 per person. 

And if this is the tip of a much larger issue as you suggest then perhaps this is what needs to be made public, and dealt with, I ask myself all the time, I'm forced to pay taxes, they could atleast ensure they are controlling it responsibly. It is just another example of how this government ands others do such a poor job in governing, I under stand that in most cases MP's do not have any experience in their departments, but I thought the civil service side were the experts in their fields, and were hired to guide the department,  it does not seem so in this case, or the ministers have to much power in that regard.

And the 15 bil is just the start of the story there is still the other 27 bil that needs action...

 

 

 

[Moonbox]

2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

My point was if they can send me a letter that i owe them 120, extra dollars why would it not be worth it to collect all of it ? considering one would think it is worth more than 120.00 per person. 

I don't know.  They do completely random audits, an then they also have software that flags certain things.  

2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

And if this is the tip of a much larger issue as you suggest then perhaps this is what needs to be made public, and dealt with, I ask myself all the time, I'm forced to pay taxes, they could atleast ensure they are controlling it responsibly. It is just another example of how this government ands others do such a poor job in governing, I under stand that in most cases MP's do not have any experience in their departments, but I thought the civil service side were the experts in their fields, and were hired to guide the department,  it does not seem so in this case, or the ministers have to much power in that regard.

And the 15 bil is just the start of the story there is still the other 27 bil that needs action...

Right, but like I said, we're talking about a understaffed bureaucracy that has been kicked around by successive governments, many of whom don't have much interest in fixing a system that benefits them or their donors.  This isn't a partisan issue either.  The Conservatives gutted CRA funding under Harper, and the Liberals have just carried on that fine work.  

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I don't know.  They do completely random audits, an then they also have software that flags certain things.  

Right, but like I said, we're talking about a understaffed bureaucracy that has been kicked around by successive governments, many of whom don't have much interest in fixing a system that benefits them or their donors.  This isn't a partisan issue either.  The Conservatives gutted CRA funding under Harper, and the Liberals have just carried on that fine work.  

No i get it, it is like how most see the military, they are not on the priority list , and most do not care to see the issues becasue of the fog of so many other issues in the way. That and they really don't bring in votes, or support...i don't see things changing becasue the entire federal system is damaged or neglected from top to bottom, and not enough time or funding to fix it all. 

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

No i get it, it is like how most see the military, they are not on the priority list , and most do not care to see the issues becasue of the fog of so many other issues in the way. That and they really don't bring in votes, or support...i don't see things changing becasue the entire federal system is damaged or neglected from top to bottom, and not enough time or funding to fix it all. 

There are only so many people and only so much time and they do what they can with what they got.

I have close friends that are actively working on fraud cases for this covid payouts. They even found some of their own and nailed them and fired them.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/federal-department-fires-49-employees-for-claiming-cerb-while-employed-1.6258821

[Moonbox]

I think this is even worse than the military, in a way.  Where the military is a neglected and under-appreciated by our politicians, there's at least no conflict of interest in that.  Nobody is really profiting from it.  

While we sit here mired in deficits, we've hobbled the only agency in the country responsible for bringing in revenue, and made it easier for criminals to launder money and for the wealthiest to play accounting games.  Canada's a haven for these sorts of shenanigans, and perhaps I've a little conspiracy theorist in me as well, it's hard not to feel like this is how our MPs want it to be.  

[herbie]

Having just paid back $2K out of the wife's estate, I'm not too happy at seeing others get off scot free,

On the other hand hte massive disruption too already backed up services amd huge hiring expenses to solve it justifies it somewhat.

Give it a lower priority and stick it into the backlog.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I think this is even worse than the military, in a way.  Where the military is a neglected and under-appreciated by our politicians, there's at least no conflict of interest in that.  Nobody is really profiting from it.  

While we sit here mired in deficits, we've hobbled the only agency in the country responsible for bringing in revenue, and made it easier for criminals to launder money and for the wealthiest to play accounting games.  Canada's a haven for these sorts of shenanigans, and perhaps I've a little conspiracy theorist in me as well, it's hard not to feel like this is how our MPs want it to be.  

It could simply be that lobbyists for the wealthy have more influence over our MPs than we do. If the expanding wealth gap is any indication MPs are doing a wonderful job.

 

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, herbie said:

Having just paid back $2K out of the wife's estate, I'm not too happy at seeing others get off scot free,

On the other hand hte massive disruption too already backed up services amd huge hiring expenses to solve it justifies it somewhat.

Give it a lower priority and stick it into the backlog.

Don't make it sound like "others" are getting off scott free.

Yes, some will get off without being caught or paying back taxes but, that happens every year. Getting all fraud or  making all recovery is an ongoing problem and the best that can with the resources available is being done.

Unfortunately, it is the low man on the totem pole that normally gets caught.,

[August1991]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:40 PM, blackbird said:

The health care system could sure use that 15 billion dollars.  It is in a crisis.

15 billion US dollars or Cdn?

====

The Canadian health system largely works.

Poilievre is wrong, and if he wants to make a federal campaign on this, he will lose.

===

Our federal health system is not about health - it is about insurance.

Women, across Canada, feel safer.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by August1991

[August1991]

If I were Poilievre, I would strongly remind Trudeau Jnr:

- issues of health and education are provincial questions

- your father was a federalist

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

The Canadian health system largely works.

Millions of Canadians would disagree with that claim.  Millions do not have a family doctor.  Thousands of people died waiting for their treatments and are still waiting.  Many people suffered waiting six or twelve hours or more in ER rooms.  I don't think the health care system largely works.  Only for those people who don't have to use it.

[ExFlyer]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Millions of Canadians would disagree with that claim.  Millions do not have a family doctor.  Thousands of people died waiting for their treatments and are still waiting.  Many people suffered waiting six or twelve hours or more in ER rooms.  I don't think the health care system largely works.  Only for those people who don't have to use it.

Millions of Canadians would disagree with ....... anything and everything. We have become a country of complainers.

We want everything for free and want it now.

Every emergency room in the country does triage. Those that need immediate help, get it. More and more people go to emergency for minor issues and therefore clog them up.

 

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

It could simply be that lobbyists for the wealthy have more influence over our MPs than we do. If the expanding wealth gap is any indication MPs are doing a wonderful job.

 

That’s almost certainly part of it, but many of the MPs are wealthy themselves.  The point is that I don’t think the Liberals or the Conservatives are interested in fixing this, when they should both be.  

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That’s almost certainly part of it, but many of the MPs are wealthy themselves.  The point is that I don’t think the Liberals or the Conservatives are interested in fixing this, when they should both be.  

This will only break our polity down - our willingness to be governed.  I think we'll see more people filled with an eff-u attitude simply ignoring rules and regulations and this will be matched by gun shy regulators with less inclination to rock their boats.

You can see this on the ground now. I know building inspectors who are stressed to the point of quitting from trying to make people comply with rules around what people can do with their properties - many people who of course need to generate more income to stay afloat and start cutting corners and bending and breaking rules to do so.

[Moonbox]

That's a different and completely separate problem, though I guess along the same theme.  

I face similar problems in my industry, and it's just shitty policy making.  For decades before I even joined the business, financial advisors and investment brokers played slimy games with their naive clients to maximize their commissions and income.  Performance and their clients' well-being were secondary concerns. 

The regulators did nothing with it for decades (lobbyists), but with the internet and social media now, the problems and bad actors are easier to highlight and go viral. The industry has done a complete 180 now, so we're inundated with paperwork and overbearing compliance issues that even the clients don't appreciate, but it's like this overcompensatory effort by regulators and government somehow makes up for the fact that they were doing nothing for decades. 

That's what will happen with the building codes and inspections, and it's what will eventually happen with the CRA too.  The eventual solution will be a brute-force overreaction that shocks the industry and causes all sorts of unnecessary problems, but public opinion will get so riled up over the grift and complacency that they'll need to show decisive (not necessarily wise) action.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That's what will happen with the building codes and inspections, and it's what will eventually happen with the CRA too.  The eventual solution will be a brute-force overreaction that shocks the industry and causes all sorts of unnecessary problems, but public opinion will get so riled up over the grift and complacency that they'll need to show decisive (not necessarily wise) action.

I'm pretty sure it is the public reaction to the official over-reaction I'm seeing more of these days.

The last municipal government was pretty gung ho about compliance imagining public sentiment was for reining things in. They lost by a landslide.

Maybe just the discussion around increasing density has caused a flood of people jumping the gun and causing a mini building-boom of rentals or something.

A lot of people are scrambling one way or the other.

 

[ironstone]

A culture of waste is built into the system in this country. At the end of every fiscal year for the government, every single agency scrambles to use up the current budget in order to maintain at least the same amount of funding for the next year. It's use it or lose it. No incentive to save taxpayer dollars.

 And I'm finding it hard to believe that the CRA is understaffed too. 

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Millions of Canadians would disagree with ....... anything and everything. We have become a country of complainers.

We want everything for free and want it now.

Every emergency 

 

Here comes the prolific   ---- you fill in the blank. 

Yes, much of the dumb population wants everything free handed on a gold platter.   The government listened to the Socialists, left wing nutjobs, and the millions of dumb voters and promised to deliver it.   The government imposed a public health care system promising Canadians would be taken care of.  But failed to deliver for years and the system is going down the drain.  Utter failure of a Socialist/ public health care system.  Politicians like to make nice-sounding promises but don't have a clue how to deliver on them.  The knew it would cost vast amounts of money, but didn't care.  They should have known the bureaucracy would be almost impossible to manage.  They can't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.  The set up a system that gives politicians, who have no clue or ability to manage a bureaucracy, the power to run it.  No wonder it is an abysmal failure.

So how can they manage a health care system largely benefiting unions and professional associations who seem to be running things for their own benefit, not the patients?

Edited February 10, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, ironstone said:

And I'm finding it hard to believe that the CRA is understaffed too. 

What's really phenomenal is how much control over so many aspects of their lives and everything else that's happening that people imagine the government has -that it simply lacks the capacity never mind the competence such finesse would require doesn't seem to cross their minds at all.