Democracy

[Nationalist]

22 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Why are you taking credit as someone that represents the nationalistic movement, why are you taking credit for protests in Europe? Those protests are also ran by left wing radical unions, the best way to test it is to go to a far left protest in Germany with the national flag, see what will happen with the flag. 

So do you support left wing protest movements across Europe? ?

I'm not taking credit for protests but nice try.

I will always support the right to protest.

[myata]

19 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Yes, you can, by voting.

Oh yeah, just push a button connected to nowhere and hope it'll do something good for you or in general. Easy. And why not praying by the way? What would be an essential difference?

[WestCanMan]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:20 PM, Contrarian said:

1. Yah well is a free country, you can go to a street corner and start the work to wake society.

2. Who knows? Possible, is the CCP.

3. I believe one Elon Musk released information and the American people will make their choices.

4. Of course there is inflation due to the pandemic, war & politicians are not saints.

5. Same as 3.

6. Trudeau has scandals yes, like every politician at the end of the mandate. The voters have spoken in Ontario and will speak federally too.

7. Ashamed? Why? I am in Canada, not a loyalist to a political party, i vote to penalise the political class mostly. Just because they are flawed (the establishment politicians) should I run to the alternative, Donnie Trump types of populists? ?

--> Ashamed should be people that put a foreign country in front of their country because of issues with 1 politician. Double the shame because is not even the official foreign power, is the parallel force in the U.S. which some of its seditious members are in prison due to January 6th.

--> I don't agree with @Moonboxapproach to just ignore conversation, people need to rant somewhere or else is fresh ground for the Russians to recruit from all you unhappy spoiled born here Westerners. ?

One has everything one needs here yet still stuck on last century rumours.

Every pandemic in history if one reads the journals at that time, the same type of suspicions were present. We did not have the forums back then to see all the theories, but there were writings of accusing forces using the Spanish flu as an example against "the people". Even the last century had their own "freedom fighters". I think they were more reasonable than Pat King though. 

Some of these rumours might hold a degree of truth (source of the virus), as the saying goes:

A broken clock is correct a few times a day too.

Go back and read your own post and seriously ask yourself if there's a hint of integrity in it.

Are you really saying that Trudeau's scandals are just "average"?  Harper didn't have an actual scandal in 9 years. Duffygate was a joke. Trudeau has mega-scandals, plural. Even the things like media payouts, which don't qualify as actual crimes, are far more sinister than anything Harper ever did.

Do you really think that the vax mandates were legitimate now with the benefit of hindsight? All of the things that concerned people who were watching the vax stats where the rubber hit the road were correct. The vax is not a vaccine. The side effects are real and the benefits are negligible, if any. It didn't slow the spread, lower the death toll, and the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" was never a thing. 

The Hunter laptop disinformation from the FBI and Dems, along with their lackeys at Twitter was extremely serious and there's no such thing as "We'll all look at the info Musk is releasing and make our own judgements" - the FBI lied directly to Americans when they said the laptop story was Russian disinformation. Twitter was absolutely wrong to ban a newspaper for telling the truth after they let CNN go hog wild with their lies for at least 6 years. 

 

Your post was a joke dude. You're turning into a regular leftard disinformation peddler here, and I didn't think that was your goal at first. 

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

1. Someone that follows a foreign leader of a parallel force in the US should not talk about integrity, that is my opinion. 

2. In my view -> Trudeau has issues, power got to him, this is why the West is great, we have term limits which prevents the human mind for going too far into the drug of power. He will leave the office soon, and he will be replaced by a reasonable alternative, not by populists like the type of the foreign leader of a parallel force in the US. His name is Donald from New York. 

3. I never agreed with demonising the anti-vaccinated. When it came to COVID, i went straight to my family doctor and spoke with him, after a reasonable conversation and the information presented, made my own personal choice to get vaccinated twice after allowing some time to pass. Glad I did as when I caught COVID as @CITIZEN_2015indicated, the effects were mild. If it was not Covid, and it was something else, humans always take sides and point the finger when is such a large event as a pandemic. The militancy is off the chart in the Covid-19 camps, just make your choice. Society goes against your choices? The courts are there for you to purse legal avenues for your grievances.  I read enough writings from previous pandemics to realise how conspiracies arise every time. Also human nature. 

4. Yes, Twitter was wrong, Musk is a welcome change. Hunter making money with Ukraine and Donald Trump JR making money with China is also boring. Politicians and making money ? that is why the intelligence community is there for to watch such things when they cross the actual red line. So far only 1 man has legal challenges in those areas. 

5. That is your opinion. If those points were to come from someone that supports DeSantis then maybe it had more weight. But the points come from a Trump camp supporter which recently a commission recommended criminal charges for the former President. So it does not sell at least to me, but you keep peddling, for sure you will find other followers.

---> I don't agree with shutting off people's opinions even if I consider them irrational because if someone wants to listen to a Twitter or a forum doctor then is their gamble, not mine. Who am I to regulate risk? March on. 

 

 LOL. You talk about "demonizing the unvaxed"... that's the smallest part of it. Our gov't FORCED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO VAX OR FACE ECONOMIC DEVASTATION. People who quit because they refused to vax couldn't get CERB or EI like everyone else, and obviously when you get kicked out of one job in your field, at a time when the ecomomy is shutting down, you can't just get the same job somewhere else. It's bizarre that you don't understand this topic at all. Our gov't f-ed Canadians in service to Pfizer. 

And "Twitter was wrong, blah, blah, blah" LMAO. THE GOD-DAMNED FBI WAS LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGAIN. How can your takeaway from that paragraph be "Twitter was wrong"? Was Twitter really all that wrong to go along with statements from the FBI? Maybe you and I know enough to completely disregard the FBI but there are a lot of people who still think they're legit. That's not unreasonable. CNN fans don't have a clue what the FBI is up to, CNN doesn't report on it. 

If CSIS said "Contrarian, that's Russian disinformation, stop spreading it!" and you stopped, could I really blame you? IMO you probably shouldn't run the risk of telling CSIS to F-off when they're in a position of power over you and they have knowledge that you don't. 

If CSIS tells me to stop informing people about covid stats, I'll stop. I can't feed me family if the gov't seizes my bank accounts and forces me out of my line of work, and we know what our gov't is all about right now.  I'm not ready to go to war over this issue. It's that simple. 

[myata]

9 hours ago, Contrarian said:

He will leave the office soon, and he will be replaced by a reasonable alternative, not by populists like the type of the foreign leader of a parallel force in the US.

He wants to believe that there are certainties and guarantees in evolution, that something will just make it happen no matter what, we do or not (and that something would have to exist first, of course). So amusingly naive. People liked to believe in such stuff for millennia already and look.

Edited December 25, 2022 by myata

[blackbird]

Strange how democracy has brought us a self-entitled government in Ottawa.

Letters: Mary Ng and Canada's self-entitled Liberals (msn.com)

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Go back and read your own post and seriously ask yourself if there's a hint of integrity in it.

Are you really saying that Trudeau's scandals are just "average"?  Harper didn't have an actual scandal in 9 years. Duffygate was a joke. Trudeau has mega-scandals, plural. Even the things like media payouts, which don't qualify as actual crimes, are far more sinister than anything Harper ever did.

.....

The Hunter laptop disinformation from the FBI and Dems, along with their lackeys at Twitter was extremely serious and there's no such thing as "We'll all look at the info Musk is releasing and make our own judgements" - the FBI lied directly to Americans when they said the laptop story was Russian disinformation. Twitter was absolutely wrong to ban a newspaper for telling the truth after they let CNN go hog wild with their lies for at least 6 years. 

 

Your post was a joke dude. You're turning into a regular leftard disinformation peddler here, and I didn't think that was your goal at first. 

I am far from a liberal but, to paint Harper as snowy white without scandal is very incorrect.

A conservative collection of Harper scandals

https://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/08/14/a-conservative-collection-of-harper-government-scandals.html

10 Years of Harper

https://moiz.ca/harper/

50 reasons to dump Harper

http://tomduck.ca/posts/2015-10-06_50-reasons-to-dump-harper.html

Just like Liberals, Harpers conservatives also had financial scandals

https://www.sasktoday.ca/south/opinion/just-like-trudeaus-liberals-harpers-conservatives-also-managed-financial-scandals-4154253

 

Hunter Biden? US problem. Not part of this discussion.

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Just like Liberals, Harpers conservatives

Wow, surprise! What could be the problem, wonder? Could it be... wait no, impossible but what else then? the total, absolute, conceived and engineered from day one then cemented finally and irrevocably ("such a can of worms") lack of any meaningful transparency and accountability of Canadian majority governments?

Like what would the color of the head have to do with the problem? Why wouldn't you do it if you can and no constraints or limits, whoever you are in that chair?

OMG people knew about this three centuries back and exactly for this reason designed all those checks, balances, independent institutions we don't really need here because its been working so great as it is, see.

Edited December 25, 2022 by myata

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, myata said:

Wow, surprise! What could be the problem, wonder? Could it be... wait no, impossible but what else then? the total, absolute, conceived and engineered from day one then cemented finally and irrevocably ("such a can of worms") lack of any meaningful transparency and accountability of Canadian majority governments?

Like what would the color of the head have to do with the problem? Why wouldn't you do it if you can and no constraints or limits, whoever you are in that chair?

OMG people knew about this three centuries back and exactly for this reason designed all those checks, balances, independent institutions we don't really need here because its been working so great as it is, see.

WTF????

Little too much booze in your egg nog???   LOL 

[Queenmandy85]

On 12/23/2022 at 11:32 AM, I am Groot said:

Uhm Ireland? France? Finland?

They are all republics.

[blackbird]

On 12/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

I read about this and that not being democratic. There are three forms of government in the world as far as I know off the top of my head. Most are republics, some are monarchies and the rest are dictatorships. There are no democracies that I can think of. Some republics claim to be democratic republics like North Korea, and the former East Germany, but there are no actual democracies. 

There are Republics like Russia, China, Mexico and the USA.

There are Monarchies like Norway, the Netherlands, Japan and Canada.

Then there are dictatorships like Myanmar, and Pinochet's Chili.

Can anyone point to an actual democracy?

Actually you need to refine that.  There are Absolute Monarchies and there are Constitutional Monarchies.  Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy.  That means we are technically a democratic nation, although in actual fact it has serious flaws because many of the people running it are of questionable morals.  There is a lack of respect for the higher principles of righteousness as part of historic Judeo-Christian civilization in such areas as the sanctity of human life and sexual matters.  The official rejection of our historic Judeo-Christian culture and civilization, along with the higher principles it held, in favour of multiculturalism is another major flaw. 

But these flaws and immorality are simply a reflection of society as a whole.  That's what democracy means.  The society elects the government they want and that means the morals of society in general flow into the government through the election process.   But it is still a democracy according to the definition.  Which only goes to prove democracy is no guarantee of being a country of higher principles or morals.  It can lead to just the opposite as we see.

quote

de·moc·racy

[dəˈmäkrəsē]

NOUN

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives:      unquote

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by blackbird

[eyeball]

On 12/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

There are no democracies that I can think of.

If that's the case is it appropriate for us to only believe, talk and act as if we do?

How would we tell the difference between simply believing and actually knowing?

Edited December 25, 2022 by eyeball

[I am Groot]

49 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

They are all republics.

I guess I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Is it that there are no democracies? That there are no countries which title themselves 'democracies' but that are nonetheless democracies? Because that seems like a kind of banal thing to worry about.

[blackbird]

The major flaw in democracy is it allows the uneducated godless reprobates, and degenerates to vote and select the winners.  There are no qualifications to be able to cast a ballot.  The consequences are predictable.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

Smells like Anarchism fundamentalism

Plays right into the hands of entitled, entrenched self serving and carefree elites: if not us, then has to be "anarchy". Right, why couldn't they have brioches. Abandon hope of change who enter here.

Edited December 25, 2022 by myata

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Oh my what a "Christian" thing to say on your birthday. Do you understand why people don't have respect for your ideas and the isolation is growing for your crowd? In a couple more generations when space travel will become a reality, these type of ideas will end up where they were supposed to be, at the corner store. 

In another thread you were saying how Canada needs to remain a democracy, here you are advocating indirectly for theocracy. Adolf Hitler wanted a perfect society, only the "strong" at the top to rule, same with Stalin and his red brigade members. 

One of many things I understand of democracy is the value we place on the "weakest" members of society including "degenerates". Everyone to have a voice and that might bother people like yourself. 

My view is that as soon as we step into the animalistic view of the survival of the "strongest", we have lost the battle and might as well let someone like Xi rule over us. 

I am surprised a follower of the New Testament thinks this way. Actually, I am not, this is why your religion's orthodoxy caused so much destruction along history:

--> Sells the idea of peace and harmony on one side to gain followers, then proceeds to go after enemies of their power structure. 

for your Christmas, have a Merry one, but Jesus would not be proud is my opinion. ?

Truth is hard to bear or accept by those who reject God and the Bible.  Never said I am trying to win a popularity contest.  You can try for that if you want.  The world is a corrupt fallen place.  If you are not prepared to accept that fact, all I can say is study the Bible and the fall of man.

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I am far from a liberal but, to paint Harper as snowy white without scandal is very incorrect.

A conservative collection of Harper scandals

https://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/08/14/a-conservative-collection-of-harper-government-scandals.html

10 Years of Harper

https://moiz.ca/harper/

50 reasons to dump Harper

http://tomduck.ca/posts/2015-10-06_50-reasons-to-dump-harper.html

Just like Liberals, Harpers conservatives also had financial scandals

https://www.sasktoday.ca/south/opinion/just-like-trudeaus-liberals-harpers-conservatives-also-managed-financial-scandals-4154253

 

Hunter Biden? US problem. Not part of this discussion.

You're really butt-hurt by those massive scandals, hey? 

FYI the link you provided from Sasktoday was quite wrong.

Margaret Trudeau received almost $500K from WE herself. https://spencerfernando.com/2020/07/28/we-paid-margaret-trudeau-167944-more-than-previously-revealed/

You're comparing that to a guy who got $50M allocated to projects in his own riding....? 

Quote

Before the 2010 G8 summit in Huntsville, senior cabinet minister Tony Clement personally allocated a $50 million legacy fund to pay for infrastructure in his Muskoka riding. Municipalities a great distance from the summit’s location were given thousands for sidewalk improvements. An expensive gazebo costing nearly $100,000 in the hamlet of Orrville, several kilometres away from the summit, was constructed with Clement’s cash gifts.

So.... a gazebo was built in a Canadian town which Canadian taxpayers have access to, and somehow your "news article?" is comparing that to Margaret Trudeau getting $500,000 personally? 

Trudeau offered WE taxpayer money to host events and his mom was paid about $18,000 per event (incl expenses) to speak at them: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/trudeau-government-contributed-1-18-million-to-we-day-event-in-2017-during-which-pms-mother-was-likely-paid-to-speak

Then WE made gag-worthy propaganda for the WE Trudeau (Hitler) Youth members: 

As soon as anyone started asking questions about what was going on at WE they just shut the whole thing down and f'd off. "Nothin' to see here... I merely should recused myself from the selection process ?"

CBC and CTV: "Yup. Case closed. Everyone stfu about it now."

How does an expensive gazebo, built for taxpayers, compare to all of that? Are you on glue? 

Did Harper cheat on a game of solitaire as well? OMG, round up his whole family ExFlyer!!!

Edited December 25, 2022 by WestCanMan

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You're really butt-hurt by those massive scandals, hey? 

FYI the link you provided from Sasktoday was quite wrong.

.... round up his whole family ExFlyer!!!

Nope, could care less, just pointing out that one dick is no better than the other dick.

All you Harper groupies have no better leader than the Trudeau groupies.

Don't need to round anyone up....they self destruct on their own.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Nope, could care less, just pointing out that one dick is no better than the other dick.

All you Harper groupies have no better leader than the Trudeau groupies.

Don't need to round anyone up....they self destruct on their own.

That's like saying a guy who negotiates hard with a baker for a loaf of bread is like Clifford Olsen.

You compared a guy who got gov't money for his riding, which is exactly what he got elected to do, and which should actually happen once in a while, to a guy who shuffles gobs of gov't money to criminal corporations which bribe politicians, family members, and friends. 

It's like you're really stupid or something, right? 

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Oh my what a "Christian" thing to say on your birthday. Do you understand why people don't have respect for your ideas and the isolation is growing for your crowd? In a couple more generations when space travel will become a reality, these type of ideas will end up where they were supposed to be, at the corner store. 

In another thread you were saying how Canada needs to remain a democracy, here you are advocating indirectly for theocracy. Adolf Hitler wanted a perfect society, only the "strong" at the top to rule, same with Stalin and his red brigade members. 

One of many things I understand of democracy is the value we place on the "weakest" members of society including "degenerates". Everyone to have a voice and that might bother people like yourself. 

My view is that as soon as we step into the animalistic view of the survival of the "strongest", we have lost the battle and might as well let someone like Xi rule over us. 

I am surprised a follower of the New Testament thinks this way. Actually, I am not, this is why your religion's orthodoxy caused so much destruction along history:

--> Sells the idea of peace and harmony on one side to gain followers, then proceeds to go after enemies of their power structure. 

for your Christmas, have a Merry one, but Jesus would not be proud is my opinion. ?

"Rather, the point is that we all possess (by the nature of being one of Adam’s decedents) the same depraved nature which produces those sins. Of this, R.C. Sproul writes, “We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners.” And we are sinners because we are children of Adam.

The bible teaches this in many other places as well.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Psalm 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3:23  For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…"

The Nature of the Fallen Nature of Man | Grace Church Wyoming, MN (gracewyoming.com)

No, I am not advocating for theocracy.  Just pointing out the reality of the world.

[myata]

There's nothing to discuss here, the law of nature is proven and sealed: unchecked, unaccountable power that is not strictly and continuously watched and checked by the citizens will be abused. It doesn't matter who, what stripe the only unknowns are when and how. And we here have just that situation. And, nothing can be changed (ever). The music will come on. Nothing personal - only the law of Nature.

Edited December 26, 2022 by myata

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

That's like saying a guy who negotiates hard with a baker for a loaf of bread is like Clifford Olsen.

You compared a guy who got gov't money for his riding, which is exactly what he got elected to do, and which should actually happen once in a while, to a guy who shuffles gobs of gov't money to criminal corporations which bribe politicians, family members, and friends. 

It's like you're really stupid or something, right? 

Huh???

"All you Harper groupies have no better leader than the Trudeau groupies. "

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, Contrarian said:

In my opinion, you are pointing out the "reality" of your world only, a bubble, perception, nothing more. And why are using old testament theories to make your point about the New Testament? You just borrow what it works? 

When you say "reality", in my view you are really saying arrogance as millions of people across the globe don't practice Christianity your way or practice different religions/no religion and are better human beings than most orthodoxy in every religion. This type of speech you normally find across all religions, the orthodox component, if it's a ultra-orthodox rabbi in Israel, a Wahhabi preacher in Saudi Arabia or a Christian radical preacher deep South in America. Some are at different degrees in irrationality is true, but they all share the same trait: "The world is wrong, and they know the reality". 

Tradition is important, making tradition as "truth" and preaching about it, that is something we agree to disagree on. 

The fall of man is a central part of orthodox Christianity and is referred to in many places in the New Testament.  The truth of the doctrine is evident from the way mankind is.

Other religions do not believe in it at all or do not believe the fall of man has corrupted the whole human race and that one needs a Savior to be redeemed.  The best human being is still born with a corrupt, fallen nature according to the Bible and his best efforts and behavior will not save him.  Everyone still needs to be redeemed.

"The Fall of Man explains why sin and misery exist in the world today.

Every act of violence, every illness, every tragedy that happens can be traced back to that fateful encounter between the first human beings and Satan.

Scripture Reference

Genesis 3; Romans 5:12-21; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22, 45-47; 2 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Timothy 2:13-14."

Fall and other religions (creation.com)

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by blackbird

[eyeball]

18 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Nope, could care less, just pointing out that one dick is no better than the other dick.

All you Harper groupies have no better leader than the Trudeau groupies.

Don't need to round anyone up....they self destruct on their own.

More and more you sound like a lobbyist riding a gravy train.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Huh???

"All you Harper groupies have no better leader than the Trudeau groupies. "

MPs are elected to get things done for their constituents. That's what they guy in your "Harper scandal" story did. Get some money allocated to his constituency. Liberal MPs do that all the time and I never say it's a crime. They even brag about the fact that they got the LPOC to allocate millions to their constituents. 

Constituents pay taxes for decades and then, every once in a while, they get something nice built in their community at the gov't's expense. It's a good thing.

A bad thing is when the gov't gives some money to a slimy corporate entity just so that a big chunk of it finds its way into their own pockets, or those of their family and friends. 

Trudeau paid WE handsomely to brainwash children with Hitler Youth-style propaganda and to funnel half a million dollars back to his mom for a few speeches. 

 

Most people understand the difference between giving $50M to a community and giving $900M to a criminal entity to make propaganda for you and to funnel millions of dollars back to your family. Of course you don't understand it, but that's par for the course.