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42 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The public's.

Are you really still that confused about what I'm getting at?  I think you're just acting myself.

Yeah. I often cannot follow your trail of bread crumbs.

If you somehow think or believe government dealings with corporations is going to be publicly transparent  (other than requests for proposals, evaluation criteria and announcing winning bids) you are living in some land but not reality land.  It is the companies that do not want that to happen and they ensure non disclosure is within every contract and bid documents.

24 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You seem obsessed with SNC Lavalin. The company asked the government for a deferred prosecution. The Attorney General said no. They did not get what they asked for. 

What on earth makes you think that? I never mentioned SLC Lavilin.

SNC Lavilin is just another teat sucking Quebec company. Those companies always get what they want in the end.

Edited by ExFlyer
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10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yeah. I often cannot follow your trail of crumbs.

I'm pretty sure you just don't want to.

Quote

If you somehow think or believe government dealings with corporations is going to be publicly transparent  (other than requests for proposals, evaluation criteria and announcing winning bids) you are living in some land but not reality land.

What you're effectively saying is that our government does not belong to us. And I'm the one living outside of reality?

Quote

 

SNC Lavilin is just another teat sucking Quebec company. Those companies always get what they want in the end.

 

How did you come to put so much stock in your powerlessness to ever do anything about this? 

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3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If you want that kind of transparency, you would need every politician, member of their staff and senior civil servant to publish a record of every interaction they have in a day. When would they have time to do any work? The public would be overwhelmed with a massive amount of information, most of which is meaningless. Think of the cost. Who would want to work under those conditions?

Not necessarily.  It may be that we simply need this kind of transparency at the very uppermost echelons of government.  I think we could count on a pretty serious trickle down effect from that.

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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What on earth makes you think that? I never mentioned SLC Lavilin.

Sorry, my error. I mistakenly quoted you rather than Eyeball. The transparency and accountability stuff is in response to Myata. Where I really messed up was forgetting about the WE affair. At the time the contracts were made, I could not imagine any group better suited to the project than WE. Even I make mistakes sometimes.

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2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You seem obsessed with SNC Lavalin. The company asked the government for a deferred prosecution. The Attorney General said no. They did not get what they asked for. 

That's sure a polite way of putting it. The PMO pressured the AG to grant the deferral and the only reason SNC didn't get it is because the AG blew the whistle on it.

Thank goodness for them but we shouldn't have to rely on whistle-blowers to protect the public's interest.

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On 12/14/2022 at 10:29 AM, ExFlyer said:

The earth will not even notice the minuscule amount Canada contributes to climate change.

 

?????  What do you call minuscule?   The out of control deforestation where no slope is left intact any more?  The out of control drilling and mining?   The out of control consumption where the green gas emissions are passed on to some other country to generate, so someone like you can say the emissions are minuscule?  The non-stop road building, pipeline building, industrial and residential development?

You just have absolutely zero understanding on the subject to make any statement.

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

?????  What do you call minuscule?   The out of control deforestation where no slope is left intact any more? 

quote

Protection

In eight years, BC has doubled its protected areas to 13.8 percent of the province – one of the highest percentages in North America.

BC’s protected areas are larger than all of the forest area ever logged in the forest. BC’s protected areas total 11.7 million hectares (29 million acres). A total of about 9.4 million hectares (23.2 million acres) of the province’s forested area has been logged over time (5.6 million hectares or 13.8 million acres are forests).

BC’s protected areas size comparisons:

Same size as the Cuba

The same size as either the United Kingdom or Romania

Three times the size of Switzerland

Same size as Louisiana or Pennsylvania

Larger than the size of Kansas

2/3 the size of Washington State

Amount of Trees

BC is 95 million hectares (235 million acres) in size (about double the size of California). Almost 64% of the province – about 60.3 million hectares (149 million acres) – is forested.

Less than one-third of one percent of BC’s forest land is harvested annually.

Only 42% (25 million hectares or 62 million acres) of BC’s provincially owned forests are available for logging.

58% percent of BC’s forests (35 million hectares or 86 million acres) will remain as original forests. How large is that? Almost as large as California (which is 100 million acres) and considerably larger than Nevada (70.3 million acres).

Original forests are areas that have never been logged or reforested. Original forests include parks; protected areas; areas unsuitable for logging; reserves around streams, lakes, and wetlands; and environmentally sensitive areas.

There are more forests growing in North America today than on the first Earth Day in 1973 (Canadian Wood Council).                    unquote

BC Forest Facts | Canada's Log People (en_ca) (canadaslogpeople.com)

Edited by blackbird
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20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Cabinet meetings are communications with the King and therefore, by necessity, secret.

There, you've got it. What "democracy", under the exalted auspices of communications with a virtual king? Where?

Edited by myata
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10 hours ago, eyeball said:

we shouldn't have to rely on whistle-blowers to protect the public's interest.

Change it to: have to, if we're in luck and the stars line up the right way because it's the only way it was design to be from the Times of Origin and nothing can be changed. Ever. Relax.

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16 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm pretty sure you just don't want to.

What you're effectively saying is that our government does not belong to us. And I'm the one living outside of reality?

How did you come to put so much stock in your powerlessness to ever do anything about this? 

Oh, I want to but, just to rambling to get a grip on them

Our government does not belong to us, it is politicians over the decades (from the beginning actually) that belong to us and they have made laws and rules and regulations and tinkered with them to the point of where we are today. "Government" now has to comply with all of those rules and regulations in order to give the people of Canada what they want and what is needed to function. Government is a corporation, it is not politicians.

My "powerlessness to ever do anything about this? "?  About Quebec and it's standing within Canada and the Canadian constitution? I beleive it is your powerlessness as well.

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5 hours ago, cougar said:

?????  What do you call minuscule?   The out of control deforestation where no slope is left intact any more?  The out of control drilling and mining?   The out of control consumption where the green gas emissions are passed on to some other country to generate, so someone like you can say the emissions are minuscule?  The non-stop road building, pipeline building, industrial and residential development?

You just have absolutely zero understanding on the subject to make any statement.

The only thing out of control is your post LOL

"Canada's greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions currently represent about 1.6 percent of the global total."

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14 hours ago, eyeball said:

That's sure a polite way of putting it. The PMO pressured the AG to grant the deferral and the only reason SNC didn't get it is because the AG blew the whistle on it.

Thank goodness for them but we shouldn't have to rely on whistle-blowers to protect the public's interest.

SNC Lavalin did not get the deferred prosecution because the AG did not pass the request on to the prosecutor. The publicity about it did not occur until long after the request was denied. Whistleblowing had nothing to do with it. The AG performed her role correctly. SNC Lavalin would not have received a deferred prosecution regardless of any publicity. 

 

4 hours ago, myata said:

There, you've got it. What "democracy", under the exalted auspices of communications with a virtual king? Where?

That is a bit incoherent. We are a Constitutional Monarchy with a parliamentary system. How do you not get that? What is a "virtual" King? 

Edited by Queenmandy85
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5 hours ago, myata said:

Change it to: have to, if we're in luck and the stars line up the right way because it's the only way it was design to be from the Times of Origin and nothing can be changed. Ever. Relax.

No that's not how it was designed. It was designed so our leaders would swear to God they would be right, honourable, fair and just.

God helps those who help themselves I guess.

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16 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not necessarily.  It may be that we simply need this kind of transparency at the very uppermost echelons of government.  I think we could count on a pretty serious trickle down effect from that.

The very uppermost echelon of government really has no idea of what is needed, how it is done and only the outcome. And even the outcome is not known to them unless there is some kind of questioning.

The government is a machine that is regulated and works under rules and regulations that all previous governments have set. As one procurement officer once said to me, they do not care what they are buying, toilet paper to airplanes, the process is in place and is followed the same.

If you want to know how it is done, get the Supply manual here https://buyandsell.gc.ca/policy-and-guidelines/Supply-Manual

If you really want to know the process and to see actually how transparent it is  find out here. https://buyandsell.gc.ca/policy-and-guidelines/supply-manual/section/1/10

 

The thing is though, you do not want to know and will not take the time to find out the actual way things have to be done because then many of you would not have anything to complain about.

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

SNC Lavalin did not get the deferred prosecution because the AG did not pass the request on to the prosecutor. The publicity about it did not occur until long after the request was denied. Whistleblowing had nothing to do with it. The AG performed her role correctly. SNC Lavalin would not have received a deferred prosecution regardless of any publicity.

 

Boy people sure remember things differently when they want to. The AG didn't follow the PMO's direction to pass the request on. Her performance was unexpected and if her words didn't blow the whistle her action sure did.

.

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Of course it's our's and the politicians run it for us.

And we select the politicians. Our nominating meetings are open to all members of the party and anyone who meets the criteria can be nominated. We have a civic duty to campaign for the candidate of our choice. We get the MP we deserve.

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Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

And we select the politicians. Our nominating meetings are open to all members of the party and anyone who meets the criteria can be nominated. We have a civic duty to campaign for the candidate of our choice. We get the MP we deserve.

That's right. But we still deserve much better.

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Just now, eyeball said:

Boy people sure remember things differently when they want to. The AG didn't follow the PMO's direction to pass the request on. Her performance was unexpected and if her words didn't blow the whistle her action sure did.

.

The PMO is not allowed to direct the AG. This was a case of inexperience in the PMO. It was inappropriate and the AG told them so. The publicity did not cause the denial of the deferred prosecution. It did cause the government to lose their majority. If the opposition posed a viable alternative, the government would have been defeated. Had Ms. Ambrose been leader of the opposition, Prime Minister Trudeau would have been trounced in the election.

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26 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

If you want to know how it is done, get the Supply manual here https://buyandsell.gc.ca/policy-and-guidelines/Supply-Manual

If you really want to know the process and to see actually how transparent it is find out here. https://buyandsell.gc.ca/policy-and-guidelines/supply-manual/section/1/10

Where's the process manual for the Lobbying Act that ensures transparency there?

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35 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Then it is our fault for not electing better. But we have to stop abusing our politicians if we want better people.

I think we'd have better citizens if our politicians were more respectful of us. As it is we have a growing population of deplorables who would just as happily elect a dictator than put up with more of the same.  Whether its get the government we deserve we do got it coming in any case.

https://angusreid.org/views-of-politicians/

Politicians1.png?resize=451%2C390

 

https://angusreid.org/democracy-and-authoritarianism-canada-usa/

word-image-76481-1.png?resize=561%2C692&ssl=1word-image-76481-1.png?resize=561%2C692&ssl=1

Edited by eyeball
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4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I think we'd have better citizens if our politicians were more respectful of us. As it is we have a growing population of deplorables who would just as happily elect a dictator than put up with more of the same. 

I wouldn't call them deplorables. More like outliers. What is concerning is the growing number of people who do not participate in politics. This creates a distance between the voters and the government. When you actually get to know your MP, you learn they are pretty much like you or me. The Canadian Parliament is a pretty good reflection of the population.

Politics is our national sport. It is not a spectator sport. If we do not participate, then we are letting the side down. It is important to remember, it is a sport. The rules of sportsmanship apply. "It is not whether you win or lose, it is how you play the game." 

Internationally, the world seems to be following the same pattern as we had in the 1930's. Then, we had groups like Technocracy, Social Credit, Fascism, and Communism, etc. that are a symptom of latent anger in some segments of society.

However, on the bright side, we will not have an election for another two years so we all have time to get out and find that perfect candidate to nominate, if you haven't already done so. 

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10 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I wouldn't call them deplorables. More like outliers. What is concerning is the growing number of people who do not participate in politics. This creates a distance between the voters and the government. When you actually get to know your MP, you learn they are pretty much like you or me. The Canadian Parliament is a pretty good reflection of the population.

For sure, I've been involved in local politics all my life.  I know a small handful of people who've gone on to become MLAs, MPs and even a cabinet minister.

Quote

Politics is our national sport. It is not a spectator sport. If we do not participate, then we are letting the side down. It is important to remember, it is a sport. The rules of sportsmanship apply. "It is not whether you win or lose, it is how you play the game."

Poor analogy because sports usually come with referees. OTOH under my suggestions it would be a very apt analogy because then we would have process guardians protecting the integrity of the game.

Quote

Internationally, the world seems to be following the same pattern as we had in the 1930's. Then, we had groups like Technocracy, Social Credit, Fascism, and Communism, etc. that are a symptom of latent anger in some segments of society.

And this is entirely our fault you say? I'm quite certain politicians would agree with you.

Quote

However, on the bright side, we will not have an election for another two years so we all have time to get out and find that perfect candidate to nominate, if you haven't already done so.

I'm not holding my breath. 

 

Edited by eyeball
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