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Liberal rumours.


Army Guy

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32 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Not wrong.  I did not blame the uneducated entirely for the corrupt system.  The broken corrupt system is a consequence of the fallen human nature.  The uneducated are just as corrupt, and have a fallen nature, just the same as everyone else. They are voting too and therefore are still accountable for the corrupt system.  Without the knowledge from the Bible of good and evil, or right and wrong, society is bound to choose the wrong things.

You are wrong.  Can't hold the masses accountable for the lies and failures of their leaders.

However, if you start sending the lying corrupt leaders to jail , you may eventually have a better government.

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9 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why don't you go on a diet and wait while I plant the seeds for wheat so you can eat some bread.

But before I give you bread, I may take it all again from you this year and you will have to wait till next year and give you the same promise every year.

You seem to be unaware of the planting harvesting and re-planting concept.

 

And your analogy makes absolutely zero sense to me.  Can't fathom what you attempt to say in it, other than a lame attempt to contradict my example with the words I used.

You tell me one year after a 150 year old forest is clear cut and replanted , the forest is there.

This is an obvious lie.  The forest is not there and it may never be there ever.   You took 100% of the forest and in one year , you returned less than 1% of what you took.   In 30 years you go back trying to harvest the small trees there again.  So in reality, you never give back what you took.

And this is the actual concept of harvesting and replanting and not the pile of stinky political bull crap you want to sell me.

What you sell is for the FTT investors, sell it to them.

 

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

And your analogy makes absolutely zero sense to me.  ....

What you sell is for the FTT investors, sell it to them.

 

Of course it does not.  Nothing makes sense to tree huggers. LOL

BC and other provinces are preserving forests and doing a great job of allowing forestry economics to thrive.

There have been tree huggers like you for many decades and things are not as fatal as you whined about way back then. The industry is managed just fine.

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2 hours ago, cougar said:

You are wrong.  Can't hold the masses accountable for the lies and failures of their leaders.

However, if you start sending the lying corrupt leaders to jail , you may eventually have a better government.

quote

What is depravity?

Depravity is moral corruption or wickedness. To be depraved, then, is to be morally corrupt or wicked—sinful.

Although God created Adam and Eve with good natures (Genesis 1:31), when Adam rebelled against God’s command and therein rejected God as his God, his nature and that of all mankind after him became corrupted—depraved. This is Paul’s point in passages like Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15.

Romans 5:12 …sin came into the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned…

1 Corinthians 15:22 …in Adam all die…

Without a doubt Titus 3:3 teaches that mankind is depraved—still living with the effects of Adam’s sin. That is, to be “foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another” (which we all are by nature) is to be morally corrupt or wicked.     unquote

The Nature of the Fallen Nature of Man | Grace Church Wyoming, MN (gracewyoming.com)

 

 

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9 hours ago, cougar said:

It is visible from space it is not.  The weather patterns also tell you it is not.  What more proof do you need?

Forests are visible from space, Oceans are visible from space, cities are visible from space, parking lots are visible from space, some say there are cameras so good you can read newspapers from space.

Weather pasterns are visible from space. There have been weather patterns since the  earth was formed....during ice age, during the ice age melt etc.

Give it up, you have nothing anymore.

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I'm not sure what the forest industry (a Provincial responsibility) has to do with the prospect of an early Federal election. As a treehugger, I think we should back off and let the wilderness, which is the essence of Canada, recover. With all the educational opportunities in Canada, why are we so welded to resourse extraction. Canada is particularly good in the financial industry, the beverage alcohol industry and R&D. We are short on workers in the trades and in IT. Why do we need to rely on natural resourses when the big money is in banking, the sciences, and the trades?  We need to up our game in education. 

What this has to do with the continuing success of the Natural Governing Party, I don't know. 

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5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Forests are visible from space, Oceans are visible from space, cities are visible from space,

 

sure, when you have no more to say, come up with some dumb jack ass comment.

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4 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I'm not sure what the forest industry (a Provincial responsibility) has to do with the prospect of an early Federal election. As a treehugger, I think we should back off and let the wilderness, which is the essence of Canada, recover. With all the educational opportunities in Canada, why are we so welded to resourse extraction. Canada is particularly good in the financial industry, the beverage alcohol industry and R&D. We are short on workers in the trades and in IT. Why do we need to rely on natural resourses when the big money is in banking, the sciences, and the trades?  We need to up our game in education. 

What this has to do with the continuing success of the Natural Governing Party, I don't know. 

I was supposed to work in IT, then ended up spending most of my time working indirectly for the forestry, oil and gas and mining.    And all for close to no returns for me.   Just a dumb place with dumb governments - one after the other.

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20 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I am not arguing at all, just holding you to proving your statements. 

As I've said the statement is self-evident, when 1 person deceives one person it's merely 1:1 when it's 38 million it's a bigger deal.  

Quote

SNC Lavalin, 2 elections ago, won by the perpetrators so the public seemed OK with it.

Two minority governments instead of the majority lost to a public that must have been unhappy about something else.  Whatever that is perhaps its evidence of something that counters what I provided, all you've provided instead is;

Quote

A poll means nothing in between elections and even during elections Angus Reid was way wrong.

Ok, just don't keep trying to tell me I haven't presented any evidence when it's simply evidence you merely disagree with.

I still haven't seen anything to counter my contention that one of the main ingredients contributing to public mistrust are when affairs like SNC occur.  I'd think if I was a partisan Liberal I'd want as robust an institution of transparency surrounding my representative as possible to help maintain the majority position needed to prevent....paralysis of the party's agenda amongst other things.  As a Canadian I'd simply want more robust institutions of accountability to help keep the country more united by keeping it on the same page with regards to the information guiding everyone's decisions.   

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Within this thread is all the evidence we need of how misinformation fills the void a public record should occupy with the consequence being a mistrustful, divided public that is increasingly disenchanted with democracy.

We've been provided with three versions of what happened during the SNC affair, Queenmandy's, WasteCanMan's and ExFlyer's.  There's really no good excuse for not having a clear public record that settles it without debate.

And now people are wondering just what is democracy anyway.  This is what I call erosion.

Edited by eyeball
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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We've been provided with three versions of what happened during the SNC affair, Queenmandy's, WasteCanMan's and ExFlyer's.  There's really no good excuse for not having a clear public record that settles it without debate.

It is quite simple, really. There is no need for debate because my version is the correct one.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

...

...

Ok, just don't keep trying to tell me I haven't presented any evidence when it's simply evidence you merely disagree with.

...

I do not merely disagree with you, I just hold you to justify your comments. I have asked you who and what and all you can come up with is SNC.

So,who? What?

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17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I do not merely disagree with you, I just hold you to justify your comments. I have asked you who and what and all you can come up with is SNC.

I'm not the only one coming up with it.

Quote

 

As for other scandals pointing to my suggestion we reform our lobbying laws.

Quote

 

Just because you disagree with a justification doesn't mean it isn't one.

In the meantime you still haven't provided a single shred of a anything that justifies preserving all the secrecy the government and lobbyists currently have available to them. 

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Yes you are.Who? What? When? 

I'm not Paul Wells, LOL.

Quote

And lets not forget anyone as all parties may be culpable.

Is THAT all that's got your sensitive little ginch in such a knot?

I'm sorry. Did you notice where I said that if I was a partisan Liberal I'd subject my party even greater scrutiny or why I said greater transparency is something all Canadians could benefit from?

I'm not a partisan of any type so why the implication this is only about Liberals is bizarre. And why  care given you keep trying to position your self as being non-partisan?

I still don't have any idea why you'd be against greater transparency at all.  You've provided absolutely nothing at all to justify why you think micro-management or paralysis would be the result.

Quote

WE? OK, that is one. Who else?

Why don't you come up with a few, sounds like you're itching to. I'll tell you right now that if it is a scandal that involves lobbyists and public officials and involves a bunch of unrecorded what he/they/she said I'll probably just thank you for evidence that justifies what I'm saying.

Here's googly search using the search term(a) Canadian lobbying scandals for you to get statred.

I've also included the following Canadian Encyclopedia article on the History of Lobbying Regulation. Hopefully the examples you come up with will reinforce why lobbying is an activity that requires regulating.  SNC simply underscore that we still need to work on better regulations.      

 

Quote

 

History of Lobbying Regulation

Lobbying is as ancient as the art of politics. It first attracted widespread public interest and concern at the end of the 19th century, when journalists and reformers exposed its extensive abuse and corrupt application in American politics. By 1890, Massachusetts proclaimed an anti-lobbying act. It served as a model for the legislation of Maryland (1900), Wisconsin (1905) and a few other states.

The Anti-Lobbying Act was based upon the publicity principle. It is the general idea that publicity and transparency in government decision-making will decrease corruption. The Act required counsel and other legislative agents to register with the sergeant-at-arms. They were required to provide the names and addresses of their employers and the date, term and character of their employment.

Lobbying has been a part of Canadian politics from the earliest colonial period. The grants, monopolies and concessions that made possible the early voyages of Cartier, Frobisher, Hudson and others were obtained through lobbying at court, for example. The decisions that favoured the Family Compact and the Château Clique were also the result of lobbying the British cabinet and Parliament.

Once responsible government was attained, followed by Confederation in 1867, lobbyists turned their attention to the federal and provincial governments. At first they focused on political parties, the legislature and the government of the day. But governments then became more complex. Their influence extended into virtually every aspect of social and economic life. As a result, lobbyists came to pay more attention to the bureaucracy and cabinet, than to the legislature and to political parties. Today’s federal lobbyists attempt to influence policy by meeting with Members of Parliament and senators; as well as with ministers and public officials.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/lobbying

 

 

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14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Your opinion because you think you have a right to know everything and you do not.

You are just a nosy next door neighbour.

Goodbye.

The right to know already exists, its called the Lobbying Act. My opinion is that right simply needs to be expanded, as per the evolving nature of the history of lobbying legislation along with several other justifications for doing so.

You're still standing out in the street with your fingers in your ears singing la la la, for no justifiable reason.

Hello.  

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5 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 

 

5 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Not Germaine to the topic - thread drift

Of course my pointing out the depravity of mankind is Germaine to the topic.  The topic is this government and speculation about whether they are going to continue.  In addition my post was a reply to Contrarian who responded to a previous post about the depravity and corruption of man, which is especially an issue when electing the government.  The government is corrupt as I pointed out.  People who vote for such politicians need to give their head a shake, including yourself.  Why do you not want to hear about the depravity of elected representatives?  I assume you are ok with what is going on.

People who do not believe in the higher principles of the Bible are opposing God and should not be leading anybody.  Why vote for them?

Edited by blackbird
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41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

Of course my pointing out the depravity of mankind is Germaine to the topic.  The topic is this government and speculation about whether they are going to continue.  In addition my post was a reply to Contrarian who responded to a previous post about the depravity and corruption of man, which is especially an issue when electing the government.  The government is corrupt as I pointed out.  People who vote for such politicians need to give their head a shake, including yourself.  Why do you not want to not hear about the depravity of elected representatives?  I assume you are ok with what is going on.

People who do not believe in the higher principles of the Bible are opposing God and should not be leading anybody.  Why vote for them?

Thread hi-jack yet again.

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2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Thread hi-jack yet again.

It is peculiar that you would get choked by the odd comment I make related to God and the Bible and say it is thread Hi-jack, when in fact there are countless meaningless banter back and forth by other people that have nothing to do with liberal-rumours whatever that is supposed to mean.  You said nothing to them.   I think you are really revealing your bigotry against religion, the Bible, Christianity.  You simply don't want to hear any of it regardless of the fact what I am saying is related to politics and politicians. 

The world is full of bigots that want to hear nothing about the Bible.  That is just part of all the hate that is going around today.  Its kind of like a library in the U.S. that tried to ban a Christmas tree but allowed pride events, and other religion's material.  Until a public outcry caused them to reconsider their anti-Christian bias and back down and allow a Christmas tree.  That is the times we are living in.

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