'Merica officially becomes Venezuela: Maralogo raided by Biden's goon squad

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

  # of deaths is in the chart bottom right.

Yes we've known since page 1 that 15% of you account for half the deaths.

It was clear right from the beginning that vaccine conferred a far better chance of not getting sick and dying than being unvaccinated. Vaccines rolled out sooner and quicker in the US and I recall stories about patients asking if it was too late to be vaccinated while facing intubation.  By the time vaccination started picking up in Canada there was simply no doubt in the minds of rational Canadians.

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You're like a drowning man clutching at straws now, it's pathetic.

1) No, it's not better at all. The spikes are a bit narrower, also far taller. Also, for some reason covid never took time off this summer - there were a surprisingly high number of deaths in June and July.

Visually it's about equal to my eye, if it's down it's just slightly. There's no chance that it's down to 32% of what it was, so you can stop repeating your "5x fewer...." stat now - it's clearly disproven.

Clearly wrong. I'm pretty sure everyone can see that - even eyeball. 

Who cares about omicron? When they gave you the vax they didn't say "It won't do sweet FA 1 month from now."

Do you know there's never been a time when the vax "worked"? After the big rollout, and the ICUs instantly filled up with vaxed people, it was "Delta threw us a change up".

Every successive boost it's some other excuse. Last month it was "The dog ate my research right before we mixed the last batch."  

The vaccine just can't catch a break, hey?

Are you honestly telling me that after all this time you still don't see a flu season pattern going on there? Why did other people predict something in advance that you can't see with the benefit of two years of hindsight?

It's a "real-world control group" perfesser.

A control group is just a group of people who do the exact same things as the test group, only they get a Pflacebo just in case there's really anything to the placebo effect. 

We actually have a control group made up of 85% of our population. 

All of those people got through the first flu season unvaxed, and then according to you they had a, 85% better chance of surviving flu season 2. They did no better than before, and they did no better than the unvaxed.

Why does that keep happening? It's the greatest series of coincidences in the history of the world I tell you! 

No, I don't believe the people who said "The vaccine will prevent you from getting covid and you can't pass it on to anyone else" and I don't believe the latest BS about "5x less likely to be hospitalized."

I believe "5x less likely to score over 80 on an IQ test", that's about it.

You think I was hoping that the vax would fail so that we could enjoy another 2 years of covid? 

I cheered for HCQ, ivermectin, Remdesivir (big Pharma), vitamins and zinc, and every other thing that came along. For some reason a lot of people were very choosy about the things that they wished success upon. So weird.

There's no data showing me to be incorrect, aside from the data inside big pharma's secret labs. The covid jabs hit the ground like a lead ballon and still haven't gotten off the ground.

Jesus Christ man, do you even have a f'ing clue what you're looking at?

If you go back to the site you got that from, and read the line above where you cropped that photo, you'll see it even says "Since the start of the vaccination campaign on Dec 14 2020". How many quadruple vaxed people were there in Dec of 2020 perfesser? Zero. And zero in 2021. And zero up until summer of 2022. That's why there are almost no quadruple vaxed deaths by comparison.

Now click on the box that says "distribution" and change it to "deaths". You'll see it says 10,800 deaths among the unvaxed, that's the total since day 1 of vaxing. I've kept a running total this whole time. I know that stat well. 

FYI the number of quadruple deaths is already 1,031. That's a lot considering how few people are 4xers and for how long. 

There are already 5,209 3xers dead from covid, and they haven't been around long either. They just started getting a 3rd dose partway into the last flu season. 

When they put stats there that say things like "Only 4.5% of covid deaths are among the quadruple-vaxed" it's the statistical equivalent of a bag-over-the-head punch in the face for the mathematically challenged. It's only there to fool excessively stupid people who just want to look at a shiny stat, get their cuppa confirmation bias to runneth over, and then F-off to tell the world about the emperor's new vaxes. It's perfect for CTV and CBC. Their dolt viewers love it. 

That's why @BeaverFever clicked like on your post. He believes crap like that when he sees it too. 

The stat that you quoted as "proof" is the exact same thing as if I counted points by NBA players in the new era, starting on Michael Jordan's second last season, and then I say "OMG look how many points LeBron James has in his career compared to Jordan! Jordan only has 4.5% of what LeBron has!" 

Look below for a more fleshed out version of the stats that you're trying to bedazzle the world with. The part about "Dec 14" is the second line. You had the "distribution" box open, which is the most meaningless stat ever cited, I have the cumulative death total selected in this photo. 

You're a total imposter Hodad. Stop trying to tell us what the stats say. It's like a little kid trying to impress people by saying "E=mc2" or reciting pi to 4 decimal places. 

It’s all a vast conspiracy, you see. Because something something Bill Gates microchips FBI something something.
 

Note that Trump is pro-vax and tries  takes a lot of credit for it   Are you allowed to openly disagree with your cult leader like that?  Aren’t you going to get doxxed and receive death threats now?
 

 

[Hodad]

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

@Hodad

@eyeball

There are 1,031 quadruple-vaxed deaths.

Look how many 4xers there are, and how long they've been around for. (They're the tiny little light-blue line at the bottom right of the chart)

There are only 10x as many unvaxed, and there were 38M unvaxed for a good chunk of the timeline from the "Death total" graph. Unvaxed have also been racking up deaths for two full flu seasons. 4xers hadn't seen a day of flu season in that timeline shown, it ended Sept 25th. 

 # of deaths is in the chart bottom right.

 

Oh my goodness, you've got two whole posts full of nonsense. You either missed the point entirely or are hoping quantity will distract from the facts. Here they are again:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Yes, the unvaxxed have more than their fair share of  COVID deaths, while the standard vaxxed crowd have about half of their share. Even without controlling for age, your people are significantly overrepresented in the morgue compared to the vaccinated.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes we've known since page 1 that 15% of you account for half the deaths.

100% of us account for those deaths. We were all unvaccinated during that time frame.

Quote

It was clear right from the beginning that vaccine conferred a far better chance of not getting sick and dying than being unvaccinated. 

Clear in what way?

In that you were promised it, or that there were some real-world stats showing it?

If you have the real-world stats we'd love to see them, because up until now all you've done is misinterpret the stats that show that the vaccines don't work. 

[WestCanMan]

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s all a vast conspiracy, you see. Because something something Bill Gates microchips FBI something something.

All you need to know is that between the flu season of 2020/'21 and the flu season of 2021/'22 85% of Canadians were "vaccinated", and thereby "given an 80% higher chance of surviving covid". 

(First Canadian vaxed Dec 14 2020, July 2021 was the first month where dbl-vaxed Canadians outnumbered the unvaxed.) 

All of the people vaxed in 2021 had already survived the initial outbreak of covid when it was a vovel virus, plus one flu season, then their chances of surviving were supposedly made far better by dbl-vaxing.

Then they all just went out and died at the exact same rate as the year before, and at exactly the same rate as the unvaxed.

I believe that the theory went something like: "If we vax 85% of the population, there will be less covid deaths next year...."

Why didn't that happen?

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

Oh my goodness, you've got two whole posts full of nonsense. You either missed the point entirely or are hoping quantity will distract from the facts. Here they are again:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Yes, the unvaxxed have more than their fair share of  COVID deaths, while the standard vaxxed crowd have about half of their share. Even without controlling for age, your people are significantly overrepresented in the morgue compared to the vaccinated.

No, you were just stupid and wrong, which has been the case every single time you ever posted on this topic.

You thought that the site you were referring to had shown a stat proving that

-"only 4.5% of covid deaths occurring right now are among the quadruple-vaxed",

- but it actually said "4.5% of all covid deaths since Dec 14 2020 were are among the quadruple-vaxed."

Can you acknowledge the stupidity of that? 

Hodad, do you understand the difference between "covid deaths in the last month" and "all covid deaths since Dec 14 2020"?

How is it possible that there are only 10x as many unvaxed deaths as 4xers? 

Do you realize that all of those 4xers lived through all of 2020 unvaxed, they lived through the 2020/21 flu season unvaxed, and then in the few short months from May to Sept of 2022, which was entirely summer, aka NOT FLU SEASON, 1,031 of them died? 

Only 14% of Canadians were even 4x'ed at the end of Sept. That's a lot of covid deaths over one summer. 

It's not like "4.5%, a huge success story", it's like "Already 4.5%? WTF is happening???"

[Hodad]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

No, you were just stupid and wrong, which has been the case every single time you ever posted on this topic.

You thought that the site you were referring to had shown a stat proving that

-"only 4.5% of covid deaths occurring right now are among the quadruple-vaxed",

- but it actually said "4.5% of all covid deaths since Dec 14 2020 were are among the quadruple-vaxed."

Can you acknowledge the stupidity of that? 

Hodad, do you understand the difference between "covid deaths in the last month" and "all covid deaths since Dec 14 2020"?

How is it possible that there are only 10x as many unvaxed deaths as 4xers? 

Do you realize that all of those 4xers lived through all of 2020 unvaxed, they lived through the 2020/21 flu season unvaxed, and then in the few short months from May to Sept of 2022, which was entirely summer, aka NOT FLU SEASON, 1,031 of them died? 

Only 14% of Canadians were even 4x'ed at the end of Sept. That's a lot of covid deaths over one summer. 

It's not like "4.5%, a huge success story", it's like "Already 4.5%? WTF is happening???"

Jeebus, you're thick. You're ranting about things completely unrelated. I'm just going to keep posting these facts. You can either address them or let everyone watch you desperately dodge. 

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

The same PHAC data on the same page on the same charts. Again, even without controlling for age, the vaccinated are much less likely to die if they catch COVID. Those numbers are very straightforward. Let them sink in. 

 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

I believe that the theory went something like: "If we vax 85% of the population, there will be less covid deaths next year...."

Why didn't that happen?

Because this supposed vaccine is really just part of a vast conspiracy run by Bill Gates to implant us all with microchips. Obviously. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by BeaverFever

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Oh my goodness, you've got two whole posts full of nonsense. You either missed the point entirely or are hoping quantity will distract from the facts. Here they are again:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Yes, the unvaxxed have more than their fair share of  COVID deaths, while the standard vaxxed crowd have about half of their share. Even without controlling for age, your people are significantly overrepresented in the morgue compared to the vaccinated.

When I initially addressed this post I spoke mainly to your idiocy from yesterday, and not to ^ specifically.

Quote

 

 

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

 

 

• Cases/deaths means nothing, because people who get covid but don't present sick at a hospital or doctor's office sick don't show up in the "cases" stat, and people who were unvaxed were refused treatment in a lot of instances. 
• This is just your own pathetic attempt to mislead, because 1) "standard-vaccinated" Canadians account for less than half of the multi-vaxed here. It's like if I divided the unvaxed into 3 groups and then said "unvaxed group 1 only accounts of 11% of the deaths in Canada. HA!" 2) When you referenced that stat you neglected to mention it's timeline, which is so bizarre that it doesn't provide anything even remotely resembling a "rate", which is what is inferred when you talk in terms of "proportions". Whenever you talk about the proportion of deaths, you need to quantify that by referencing the amount of exposure in each group. The amount of exposure by unvaxed and "standard-vaxed" differs wildly within the timeline you're referring to, on account of how many people were in each group, for how long, and how many flu seasons they went through. I could compare unvaxed covid deaths from 1962 vs vaxed deaths in 2022 with the same level of credibility as the "stat" you just mentioned there. The people you're quoting know exactly what they're doing when they post "stats" which are that misleading. IE, when they post intentionally misleading stats.

 

Quote

Yes, the unvaxxed have more than their fair share of  COVID deaths, while the standard vaxxed crowd have about half of their share. Even without controlling for age, your people are significantly overrepresented in the morgue compared to the vaccinated.

Dude, like I said before, all the people that were multi-vaxed and either lived or died of covid in 2022 also had a chance to die when they were unvaxed between Dec 14 2020 and July of 2021. 

According to you, their chances of survival were up by 80%, but the multi-vaxed died at nearly the exact same rate in 2022 as 2021, on a month-by-month basis, in the respective years. Instead of Canadians experiencing 32% of the covid deaths of the previous year, it was almost identical overall. And month by month, vaxed people died at the same rate that we would have expected if they wore tinfoil hats. 85% of people vaxed, 85% of the deaths coming from the vaxed. 

Dec 14 2020 - Jan 2021 vs

Dec 14 2021 Jan 2022 was basically the same for those people, maybe worse. 

Feb 2021 - May 2021 vs

Feb 2022 - May 2022 was basically the same for those people, maybe worse. 

Multi-vaxed people fared much worse in the summer of 2022 than the unvaxed did in 2020 and 2021. Far worse. There was a negligible amount of covid death in those years - covid basically took the summer off. Covid did not take the summer off in 2022. It's unusual. 

 

[WestCanMan]

25 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Jeebus,

I answered both your dim-witted post from today where you misinterpreted the stats, and your post from yesterday when you did an even bigger botch job of interpreting the stats you posted. 

You got stooged, Hodad. Both days. Sucked in like a chump who never studied math above a grade 4 level. Own it.

[WestCanMan]

22 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Because this supposed vaccine is really just part of a vast conspiracy run by Bill Gates to implant us all with microchips. Obviously. 

You've seen evidence for yourself, via real-world stats on a national level, that there was no 'vaccine', yet you still can't admit it.

Just like you still cling to your cowusion wubbie at night. 

You need to look up cognitive dissonance Beave, and understand that it's not "unGodly doubts which represent an existential threat to the glory of the party!", it's actually common sense providing you with the necessary motivation to reconsider some of your entrenched positions, and look at things from a more open-minded POV.

Take a breath, man. Think like a grownup. These are important topics. 

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I answered both your dim-witted post from today where you misinterpreted the stats, and your post from yesterday when you did an even bigger botch job of interpreting the stats you posted. 

You got stooged, Hodad. Both days. Sucked in like a chump who never studied math above a grade 4 level. Own it.

Your Dunning-Kruger is on fire today. You can't just have-wave away facts with a geyser of red herrings, though it's hilarious watching you bluster through the attempt.

Here they are again:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

^^ An unvaccinated person with COVID is much more likely to be hospitalized and to die.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

Your Dunning-Kruger is on fire today. You can't just have-wave away facts with a geyser of red herrings, though it's hilarious watching you bluster through the attempt.

Here they are again:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

^^ An unvaccinated person with COVID is much more likely to be hospitalized and to die.

You're the poster boy for Dunning Kruger. I have to explain the most basic flaws in your posts every day.

FYI none of that shit means what you think it does.

The 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths that you are talking about are not in proportion to the percentage of vaxed people today. That's a cumulative number which dates back to Dec 14 2020, and it obviously includes a long period of time when nearly 100% of Canadians were unvaxed. 

Right now, day-to-day, 85% of the people who are dying of covid are unvaxed. 

I'm not trying to be mean here, but you're honestly a really stupid person Hodad. If you can explain to me why approximately 100% of the people who died of covid between Dec 14 2020 and Dec 31 2020 were unvaxed, I'll continue explaining this to you. 

[West]

Did anything ever come out of the ridiculous gestapo like behavior?

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You're the poster boy for Dunning Kruger. I have to explain the most basic flaws in your posts every day.

FYI none of that shit means what you think it does.

The 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths that you are talking about are not in proportion to the percentage of vaxed people today. That's a cumulative number which dates back to Dec 14 2020, and it obviously includes a long period of time when nearly 100% of Canadians were unvaxed. 

Right now, day-to-day, 85% of the people who are dying of covid are unvaxed. 

I'm not trying to be mean here, but you're honestly a really stupid person Hodad. If you can explain to me why approximately 100% of the people who died of covid between Dec 14 2020 and Dec 31 2020 were unvaxed, I'll continue explaining this to you. 

Hey, Dipshit (not trying to be mean) but it's is completely irrelevant how far back the numbers go. 

If the vaccines were, as you falsely claim, ineffective, a placebo - as good as a tinfoil hat - the deaths would be in proportion to cases. 

If 90% if the cases were unvaxxed they should make up 90% of the deaths. If 40% of the cases were unvaxxed then they should make up 40% if the deaths. They don't. They are overrepresented in the morgue. And the standard vax crowd are significantly underrepresented.

Again: 

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Enjoy! 

And it gets much uglier for you when standardized for age. The vaccines are effective. The page you keep citing literally states that they are effective, in no uncertain terms, and yet you put your head up your ass so that you don't have to take in that information.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Hodad

[BeaverFever]

How did a thread about Trump stealing documents morph into yet another debate over COViD vaccine conspiracies?

[BeaverFever]

11 hours ago, West said:

Did anything ever come out of the ridiculous gestapo like behavior?

Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to know why you’re asking about soup recipes 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/09/lauren-boebert-marjorie-taylor-greene-wonton-killings-gazpacho-police/amp

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, Hodad said:

Hey, Dipshit (not trying to be mean) but it's is completely irrelevant how far back the numbers go. 

 

Uh, yeah it does, because the numbers go back to 1.5 years before there was ever a quadruple-vaccinated person on the planet, and then your stats gurus say 'brilyunt' things like " OMG WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT SPORTS FANS! ONLY 4.5% OF COVED DEATHS ARE AMONG THE QUADRUPLE-VAXED!", and the most credulous, uneducated, mathematically challenged people among us quote them as if they're science incarnate. 

FYI between Aug 21 2022 and Sept 25 2022 there were 323 quadruple-vaxed covid deaths and only 1,082 covid deaths in total. 

QUADRUPLE-VAXED PEOPLE ACCOUNTED FOR 30% OF THE COVID DEATHS LAST MONTH (29.85% to be exact). It's not "4.5%", the number that you were duped into repeating. 

 That's a perfect example of how misleading it can be to use numbers that go that far back.

 

To find the number of deaths in each category, subtract the "Dec 2020 to Aug 2022" running totals from the "Dec 2020 to Sept 2022" running totals. 

The graph below shows you how many 4x-vaxed people there are, and for how long (small, light-blue line, bottom right). The fact that they already account for 4.5% of the total number of deaths in the last two years is almost disturbing....

Quote

If the vaccines were, as you falsely [<-- fixed it for you] claim, ineffective, a placebo - as good as a tinfoil hat - the deaths would be in proportion to cases.

14.3% of covid deaths were among the unvaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of unvaxed, 14%.

85.7% of covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of multi-vaxed, 86%.

How much more "in proportion" do covid deaths have to be in order for your keen eye to spot the pattern, perfesser?

Quote

If 90% if the cases were unvaxxed they should make up 90% of the deaths.

Guess how many times I've been "officially" tested...?

Once, because of arivecan. I had to send a test in the mail and I can only assume it was negative because no one freaked out. 

I've been mildly sick at least 3 times since covid came here. Statistically speaking I had to have had it at least that many times because I'm not careful at all. But my official 'case count' is zero.

So just how accurate do you think case count is? 

Quote

And it gets much uglier for you when standardized for age. 

You can only guess whether or not that stat is legit because it comes from secret labs.

You don't have to guess what happened in a non-secret country called Canada though, I have the stats right here. We vaxed 85% of our population and covid deaths didn't drop at all. 

We hit 85% vaxed in about Oct 2021. Look at the numbers from [Dec 14 2020 to July 2021] and compare them to [Dec 14 2021 to July 2022] and you'll see that covid deaths didn't go down the way that you'd expect them to after 85% of the popultion had been "vaccinated".

Guess what happened to polio deaths after the polio vaccine came out... Honestly, guess Hodad. No one expects you to know, for some weird reason.

Guess what happened to smallpox deaths after the smallpox vaccine came out....

Guess what happened to the stats for every other communicable disease after its vaccine came out.... All but one I should say.

99.9% of vaccines all but eradicated the disease that they supposed to prevent, but there's one "vaccine" out there that didn't lower the death toll at all... "Why do we call that one a 'vaccine'?" you say... "We" don't. Only some of us do. They're called credulous rubes. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by WestCanMan

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Uh, yeah it does, because the numbers go back to 1.5 years before there was ever a quadruple-vaccinated person on the planet, and then your stats gurus say 'brilyunt' things like " OMG WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT SPORTS FANS! ONLY 4.5% OF COVED DEATHS ARE AMONG THE QUADRUPLE-VAXED!", and the most credulous, uneducated, mathematically challenged people among us quote them as if they're science incarnate. 

FYI between Aug 21 2022 and Sept 25 2022 there were 323 quadruple-vaxed covid deaths and only 1,082 covid deaths in total. 

QUADRUPLE-VAXED PEOPLE ACCOUNTED FOR 30% OF THE COVID DEATHS LAST MONTH (29.85% to be exact). It's not "4.5%", the number that you were duped into repeating. 

 That's a perfect example of how misleading it can be to use numbers that go that far back.

14.3% of covid deaths were among the unvaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of unvaxed, 14%.

85.7% of covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of multi-vaxed, 86%.

How much more "in proportion" do covid deaths have to be in order for your keen eye to spot the pattern, perfesser?

Guess how many times I've been "officially" tested...?

Once, because of arivecan. I had to send a test in the mail and I can only assume it was negative because no one freaked out. 

I've been mildly sick at least 3 times since covid came here. Statistically speaking I had to have had it at least that many times because I'm not careful at all. But my official 'case count' is zero.

So just how accurate do you think case count is? 

You can only guess whether or not that stat is legit because it comes from secret labs.

You don't have to guess what happened in a non-secret country called Canada though, I have the stats right here. We vaxed 85% of our population and covid deaths didn't drop at all. 

Guess what happened to polio deaths after the polio vaccine came out... Honestly, guess Hodad. No one expects you to know, for some weird reason.

Guess what happened to smallpox deaths after the smallpox vaccine came out....

Guess what happened to the stats for every other communicable disease after its vaccine came out.... All but one I should say.

99.9% of vaccines all but eradicated the disease that they supposed to prevent, but there's one "vaccine" out there that didn't lower the death toll at all... "Why do we call that one a 'vaccine'?" you say... "We" don't. Only some of us do. They're called credulous rubes. 

You're just flailing around now. Death throes. You'd rather talk about *anything* other that the disproportionate rates at which the unvaxxed die and the vaxxed survive.

Going back 1.5 years - or 20 years- makes no difference when evaluating efficacy in protecting against hospitalization and death. As vaccines and boosters become available in the timeline it will add new categories to track- it will change the preventer of cases distributed to each category, but it makes no difference in terms of tracking deaths relative to vaccination status.  If the vaccines are placebo, as you falsely claim, an infected person with or without vaccination would be equally likely to die. If 40% of the cases were unvaxxed then, ceteris paribus, they would account for 40% of the deaths. 

Of course, that's not the reality the unvaxxed are overrepresented in the morgue and the vaxxed are dramatically underrepresented.

And remember that this entire construction depends on all else being equal, which, in reality is not the case. Vaccination is a choice, it's behavioral. The more risk an individual bears the more likely that individual is to seek mitigation, to get the vaccine. So the bulk of the highest risk individuals, those most likely to die, are in the vaxxed count, then later the boosted count, and more recently the double boosted. Literally everything in the real world condition favors your silly argument- an unvaxxed case population full of children and young adults- and STILL - the vaccine group is much more likely to survive. 

Only a fool would try to evaluate efficacy without standardizing for risk, but even that same fool can see the results in the non-standardized data.

Again: 

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

 

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Uh, yeah it does, because the numbers go back to 1.5 years before there was ever a quadruple-vaccinated person on the planet, and then your stats gurus say 'brilyunt' things like " OMG WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT SPORTS FANS! ONLY 4.5% OF COVED DEATHS ARE AMONG THE QUADRUPLE-VAXED!", and the most credulous, uneducated, mathematically challenged people among us quote them as if they're science incarnate. 

FYI between Aug 21 2022 and Sept 25 2022 there were 323 quadruple-vaxed covid deaths and only 1,082 covid deaths in total. 

QUADRUPLE-VAXED PEOPLE ACCOUNTED FOR 30% OF THE COVID DEATHS LAST MONTH (29.85% to be exact). It's not "4.5%", the number that you were duped into repeating. 

 That's a perfect example of how misleading it can be to use numbers that go that far back.

 

To find the number of deaths in each category, subtract the "Dec 2020 to Aug 2022" running totals from the "Dec 2020 to Sept 2022" running totals. 

The graph below shows you how many 4x-vaxed people there are, and for how long (small, light-blue line, bottom right). The fact that they already account for 4.5% of the total number of deaths in the last two years is almost disturbing....

14.3% of covid deaths were among the unvaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of unvaxed, 14%.

85.7% of covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed between Aug 21 and Sept 25. That's directly in proportion to the % of multi-vaxed, 86%.

How much more "in proportion" do covid deaths have to be in order for your keen eye to spot the pattern, perfesser?

Guess how many times I've been "officially" tested...?

Once, because of arivecan. I had to send a test in the mail and I can only assume it was negative because no one freaked out. 

I've been mildly sick at least 3 times since covid came here. Statistically speaking I had to have had it at least that many times because I'm not careful at all. But my official 'case count' is zero.

So just how accurate do you think case count is? 

You can only guess whether or not that stat is legit because it comes from secret labs.

You don't have to guess what happened in a non-secret country called Canada though, I have the stats right here. We vaxed 85% of our population and covid deaths didn't drop at all. 

We hit 85% vaxed in about Oct 2021. Look at the numbers from [Dec 14 2020 to July 2021] and compare them to [Dec 14 2021 to July 2022] and you'll see that covid deaths didn't go down the way that you'd expect them to after 85% of the popultion had been "vaccinated".

Guess what happened to polio deaths after the polio vaccine came out... Honestly, guess Hodad. No one expects you to know, for some weird reason.

Guess what happened to smallpox deaths after the smallpox vaccine came out....

Guess what happened to the stats for every other communicable disease after its vaccine came out.... All but one I should say.

99.9% of vaccines all but eradicated the disease that they supposed to prevent, but there's one "vaccine" out there that didn't lower the death toll at all... "Why do we call that one a 'vaccine'?" you say... "We" don't. Only some of us do. They're called credulous rubes. 

You claim that Covid DEATHS didn’t go down, and your “proof” was Covid CASES. Surely you know that not everyone who gets Covid dies from it. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

You're just flailing around now. Death throes. You'd rather talk about *anything* other that the disproportionate rates at which the unvaxxed die and the vaxxed survive.Going back 1.5 years - or 20 years- makes no difference when evaluating efficacy in protecting against hospitalization and death.

The rate at which the vaxed die is exactly proportional to the percent of people who are vaxed.

The survival rate among the vaxed and unvaxed compared to the number of people who are theoretically infected is a not an informative stat, because NO ONE KNOWS HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE INFECTED, EVER.

There's never been a recorded case of covid in my family because none of us have ever been sick enough to go to a doctor. Our survival rate is 100%. 

Are you telling me that if I just went and got recorded as a "case" a few times, thereby increasing unvaxed case survival rates, that would somehow prove that the vaccine was less effective? 

As usual, the point you're trying to make is weak and stupid.

Quote

Only a fool would try to evaluate efficacy without standardizing for risk, but even that same fool can see the results in the non-standardized data.

I don't need to "standardize for risk" when I'm comparing the exact same group of people 1) before they vaxed, vs 2) after they vaxed.

Every single one of the people who died of covid after vaxing somehow survived the initial wave of covid (when it was a novel virus) plus the first flu season, without the vax. 

Do you think that "standardizing the risk" between thousands of different groups of people with different ages, underlying health conditions, and even varying severity of those same underlying health conditions" is somehow more accurate than "comparing how one group of people fared before and after the vax"?

1) Who gets the "standardize the risk": the people selling the vaccines or the people dying? 

2) The vaccinated also had an advantage in that "a lot of the weakest among us had already died in the first year". 

Can we agree that the group should have experienced a drop in covid deaths after 86% of them were vaccinated? If not, what was the point of vaxing? 

My points look like this: 

1) vaccinating most of the people in the at-risk demographics and 85% of the population didn't lower the death toll in our country at all. In fact, they were incredibly high this summer compared to last, and even compared to 2020 when it was still a novel virus.

2) the % of people dying from covid who are vaxed is exactly the same as the % of Canadians who are vaxed. It happens over and over, every month.

Your point looks like this:

"More vaccinated people get logged as cases, even though they end up dying at the exact same proportions as you'd expect if they were wearing tinfoil hats". Maybe the people who wear tinfoil hats are just more likely to run to the doctor when they get sniffles?

 

It's like if we were talking about cars, and I said "This one has more horsepower and gets better fuel mileage" and you said "Yeah but this one can go just as far because its gas tank is 10% larger". 

Right? We care about the number of deaths, not how many people (real or imagined) have to be recorded as cases in order to arrive at the exact same number of deaths.

[dialamah]

Vaxed vs. unvaxed has seemingly taken over every thread.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

You claim that Covid DEATHS didn’t go down, and your “proof” was Covid CASES. Surely you know that not everyone who gets Covid dies from it. 

"QUADRUPLE-VAXED PEOPLE ACCOUNTED FOR 30% OF THE COVID DEATHS LAST MONTH (29.85% to be exact). It's not "4.5%", the number that you were duped into repeating." 

That looks an awful lot like a stat regarding covid deaths.

The graph in that post shows the number of covid deaths during the time periods I was talking about. It's here:

The two specific time periods are isolated on the next two graphs. 

Try to tell me that it looks like there are way less deaths in one of them:

[WestCanMan]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:13 PM, Hodad said:

The premise here is incorrect to start with. The right half of the chart is indeed better, vertically and horizontally. Spikes are smaller in bothe dimensions. The big spike post vax in Jan 2022 is when Omicron landed. I don't think Flu season is likely meaningful in a COVID count except for the fact that they spread under the same conditions.

And no, it's not a control group. Many people took advantage of the vaccine protection to abandon other mitigators like masks and social distancing to return to normal-ish life. 

And the "people I believe" are the same people you believe, and indeed the same people who furnished you with this chart. Except that you only believe them when you think what they provide confirms your bias, and you dismiss the exact same data when it shows you to be incorrect. That's nuts. 

Let's try something else. Look, here's another view - same PHAC data from which you arbitrarily pick and choose what to believe.

^^The boosters are dramatically more adopted by the elderly and high risk, but the top two rows are the most reaonable comparison. (Not standardizing for age is extremely generous to your case, and still it fails spectacularly.)

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Even without standardizing the data, it's plain as day that the vaccines significantly reduce severe outcomes and death in people who contract COVID.

Hilarious that Rebound and Beave clicked "like" on that post. 

I actually just took a screenshot of your disinformation there to save it for posterity because it's just insane that you could even find such blatant disinformation.

"4.5% of deaths from quadruple vaxers" lol. 

That means 4.5% of all the deaths, vaxed and unvaxed combined, since Dec 14th 2020, 1.5 years before anyone even got the 4th dose. You sure don't get that impression from their propaganda though.

It's an absolute farce that our own gov't (IE - taxpayer funded, not "property of JT") health services would post such a blatant attempt at disinformation. 

[Hodad]

On 11/6/2022 at 4:35 PM, WestCanMan said:

The rate at which the vaxed die is exactly proportional to the percent of people who are vaxed.

The survival rate among the vaxed and unvaxed compared to the number of people who are theoretically infected is a not an informative stat, because NO ONE KNOWS HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE INFECTED, EVER.

There's never been a recorded case of covid in my family because none of us have ever been sick enough to go to a doctor. Our survival rate is 100%. 

Are you telling me that if I just went and got recorded as a "case" a few times, thereby increasing unvaxed case survival rates, that would somehow prove that the vaccine was less effective? 

As usual, the point you're trying to make is weak and stupid.

This isn't really a debate as much as you desperately denying plainly stated facts, but if it were a debate the question would be the efficacy of the vaccines. And now you've got yourself so turned around that you are claiming that stats that speak clearly and directly to the efficacy of the vaccine are "weak and stupid." lol

And now, after quoting PHAC statistics for 2 weeks and dozens of posts, when you can plainly see that they disagree with you, you say that nobody can really know anything. Hand-waving FTL!

Quote

I don't need to "standardize for risk" when I'm comparing the exact same group of people 1) before they vaxed, vs 2) after they vaxed.

Every single one of the people who died of covid after vaxing somehow survived the initial wave of covid (when it was a novel virus) plus the first flu season, without the vax. 

Do you think that "standardizing the risk" between thousands of different groups of people with different ages, underlying health conditions, and even varying severity of those same underlying health conditions" is somehow more accurate than "comparing how one group of people fared before and after the vax"?

1) Who gets the "standardize the risk": the people selling the vaccines or the people dying? 

2) The vaccinated also had an advantage in that "a lot of the weakest among us had already died in the first year". 

We know who is most at risk. It's not hard. Simple age stratification is hugely effective because other risk factors correlate well. BUT AGAIN, even if you perform zero standardization the numbers greatly favor vaccination. Any given individual who contracts covid is less likely to go to the hospital and dramatically less likely to die if they have been vaccinated.

You imagine that the population over time is a control group, but it is assuredly not. It's absolutely uncontrolled. There are new variants arising, educational changes, behavioral changes etc. But what we do know is this:

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

 

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Can we agree that the group should have experienced a drop in covid deaths after 86% of them were vaccinated? If not, what was the point of vaxing? 

No, we cannot agree to that. It would be great if the total number of deaths dropped, but that's not a measure of vaccine efficacy. It doesn't account for risk. I demonstrated why this is poor reasoning before using automotive safety advancements. Traffic fatalities go up every year, does that mean seat belts and airbags weren't effective? No, of course not. There are other factors to consider. For example, the Omicron variant hit hard in Canada- you get a spike in cases and in deaths, but that doesn't mean the vaccines weren't saving lives.

What we CAN measure cleanly is that if someone shows up at the doc with a COVID, they are significantly less likely to be hospitalized and to die if they have been vaccinated. Full stop. 

Quote

My points look like this: 

1) vaccinating most of the people in the at-risk demographics and 85% of the population didn't lower the death toll in our country at all. In fact, they were incredibly high this summer compared to last, and even compared to 2020 when it was still a novel virus.

2) the % of people dying from covid who are vaxed is exactly the same as the % of Canadians who are vaxed. It happens over and over, every month.

Because at-risk Canadians are overwhelmingly vaccinated, the vaccinated population overwhelmingly bears the risk of death. I've been telling you that for dozens of posts. This is why you'd want to standardize that data and compare like to like if you are honestly seeking to determine efficacy. 

What is the death rate for unvaccinated 50-year-olds vs vaccinated 50-year-olds?

Demos in their 20's and 30's (and minors) have a far higher population of unvaxxed and a far higher number of cases than other demos. That's a ton of identified cases with very low risk of death and STILL the Vaccinated group with most of the at-risk people significantly outperform. 

Quote

Your point looks like this:

"More vaccinated people get logged as cases, even though they end up dying at the exact same proportions as you'd expect if they were wearing tinfoil hats". Maybe the people who wear tinfoil hats are just more likely to run to the doctor when they get sniffles?

 

No, they DO NOT end up dying at the exact same rate as if they were wearing tinfoil hats. That is the whole damn point. Despite having the risk distribution entirely stacked against them, they fare MUCH better than the unvaccinated.

Again: 

• The unvaccinated account for 40.8% of cases but account for 47.6% of hospitalizations and deaths. 
• Those with standard vaccination account for 32% of the cases but only 19.9% of hospitalizations and 16.8% of deaths.

Quote

 Right? We care about the number of deaths, not how many people (real or imagined) have to be recorded as cases in order to arrive at the exact same number of deaths.

Everyone should care about the number of deaths. It's a staggering toll and a long story of pain and loss for many families.

However, in terms of measuring vaccine efficacy we don't care about that number at all. We simply need to be able to measure whether or not a person infected with COVID is less likely to get seriously ill and to die if they are vaccinated. And the answer is definitively "yes," a vaccinated person is significantly less likely to become severely ill or die if they are vaccinated.

How much less likely? Well, PHAC will answer that too:

Between August 29, 2022 and September 25, 2022, unvaccinated cases were 3 times more likely to be hospitalized and 5 times more likely to die from their illness, compared to cases with a completed primary vaccine series. During the same 4-week period, unvaccinated cases were 3 times more likely to be hospitalized and 5 times more likely to die from their illness, compared to cases with a completed primary vaccine series and 1 or more additional doses