Trucker's Convoy

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Unfortunately the "Emergency Act" empowers the government to force tow-truck drivers to comply with their order to remove the trucks, or else. Not sure what the penalty is for non-compliance.

The government destroying people's lives financially is still violence.

they could have brought the army in to do it

the fact that they are press ganging civilians instead, shows how much the government fears a mutiny

[Dougie93]

in the Canada of yore, I would have said that a military coup de'tat in Canada was inconceivable

but now I kind of see the vague outlines of what that would look like, and how it would be executed

this really is a banana republic now

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Typical narcissist's response.  You and your cronies follow me around the board, name calling me, won't debate my points, just name call and then when you push the victim til they react, you point the finger.

** I bless everyone around you** 

It takes a really special type of delusion for you to go from calling other posters straight-up idiots to then pivot and cry foul about being treated poorly.  That's such stunned and bizarre reasoning there's really nothing else to say.  It tells us everything there is to know about you as a person.    

Edited February 15, 2022 by Moonbox

[myata]

We need to find and post publicly the voting record for the unprecedented invocation of the authoritarian rule in Canada. If only for the posterity. It will want to know every name.

[blackbird]

37 minutes ago, myata said:

We need to find and post publicly the voting record for the unprecedented invocation of the authoritarian rule in Canada. If only for the posterity. It will want to know every name.

You realize you and others on here have not mentioned the fact that thousands of lives have been saved by the health restrictions and vaccine mandates.  If it were not for those measures, thousands or perhaps tens of thousands more Canadians would have died from Covid.   Would you prefer to allow unvaccinated nurses to work with patients in hospitals or unvaccinated long term care workers to work with old people in care homes?  Those people are exceptionally vulnerable to dying from Covid.  It is a fact that thousands died before we had vaccine and it was largely brought into care homes by workers who had been infected by Covid.

Edited February 15, 2022 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You realize you and others on here have not mentioned the fact that thousands of lives have been saved by the health restrictions and vaccine mandates.  If it were not for those measures, thousands or perhaps tens of thousands more Canadians would have died from Covid.

prove it

[blackbird]

This article explains a little of why vaccination has saved mass lives:

"Public Health Ontario put it in a different way in recently released data.

In the 60 days leading up to Jan. 12, including the period when Omicron took hold, the unvaccinated in the most vulnerable 80-plus group were 14 times more likely to die from COVID than their fully vaccinated counterparts, while unvaccinated 70-to-79 year olds died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in their 70s, the agency said."

Why Canada is still seeing so many people die from COVID | The Province

Considering this it is hard to understand why some people would be so opposed to the mandates and health restrictions in this pandemic.  Surely they could not want to see thousands of more people die when it has been avoided.

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

prove it

"In the 60 days leading up to Jan. 12, including the period when Omicron took hold, the unvaccinated in the most vulnerable 80-plus group were 14 times more likely to die from COVID than their fully vaccinated counterparts, while unvaccinated 70-to-79 year olds died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in their 70s, the agency said.

And those are the age groups that account for eight in 10 deaths, now and before."

Why Canada is still seeing so many people die from COVID | The Province

Edited February 15, 2022 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Why Canada is still seeing so many people die from COVID | The Province

that's not proof

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

that's not proof

You replied back right away without even reading the article.  What kind of proof do you want?   The article has facts and figures.  If you can't accept facts like that, what would satisfy you?

 

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

that's not proof

Some of the figures in the article came from Public Health Ontario.   What's wrong with that?

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, blackbird said:

You replied back right away without even reading the article.  What kind of proof do you want?   The article has facts and figures.  If you can't accept facts like that, what would satisfy you?

your facts don't say what they think you say

like when you tried to pretend that higher levels of hospitalizations for the unvaccinated

was proof vaccines reduced transmission of the virus

you don't have the slightest grasp of the facts you post, and jump to ridiculous conclusions as a result

[blackbird]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

your facts don't say what they think you say

like when you tried to pretend that higher levels of hospitalizations for the unvaccinated

was proof vaccines reduced transmission of the virus

you don't have the slightest grasp of the facts you post, and jump to ridiculous conclusions as a result

quote

Public Health Ontario put it in a different way in recently released data.

In the 60 days leading up to Jan. 12, including the period when Omicron took hold, the unvaccinated in the most vulnerable 80-plus group were 14 times more likely to die from COVID than their fully vaccinated counterparts, while unvaccinated 70-to-79 year olds died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in their 70s, the agency said.  Unquote

I accept the information from the data from Public Health Ontario.

Do you accept this information from Public Health Ontario?

 

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

quote

Public Health Ontario put it in a different way in recently released data.

In the 60 days leading up to Jan. 12, including the period when Omicron took hold, the unvaccinated in the most vulnerable 80-plus group were 14 times more likely to die from COVID than their fully vaccinated counterparts, while unvaccinated 70-to-79 year olds died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in their 70s, the agency said.  Unquote

I accept the information from the data from Public Health Ontario.

Do you accept this information from Public Health Ontario?

none of that says that government restrictions saved thousands of lives

which was your claim and has literally nothing to do with the stat you posted

no one was arguing that vaccination doesn't reduce hospitalizations or deaths

again, you clearly don't understand the data

and are doing a terrible job of pretending that you do

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

none of that says that government restrictions saved thousands of lives

which was your claim and has literally nothing to do with the stat you posted

It is a matter of simple logic or extrapolation.  If the unvaccinated in the 80 plus age group died at 14 times the rate of vaccinated people in that age group   and unvaccinated in the 70 to 79 age group died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in the 70 to 79 age group,  I think it proves that the vaccine is saving thousands of lives.

"Without those shots and immunity gained from past infection, in fact, this current stage of the pandemic would have been far more lethal, notes one expert.

“No one wants to imagine what the scenario would have looked like if Omicron was at the beginning of the pandemic, just ripping through the population,” said Dr. Zain Chagla, an infectious-disease professor at McMaster University. “We probably would have seen mass deaths, we probably would have seen long-term care facilities get destroyed.”

I will go with what Public Health Ontario and people like Dr. Zain Chagla, an infectious disease doctor at McMaster University say.

Edited February 15, 2022 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It is a matter of simple logic or extrapolation.  If the unvaccinated in the 80 plus age group died at 14 times the rate of vaccinated people in that age group   and unvaccinated in the 70 to 79 age group died at 47 times the rate of vaccinated people in the 70 to 79 age group,  I think it proves that the vaccine is saving thousands of lives

no it doesn't

you overestimate the amount of people dying

to get to saved thousands of lives

also your claim was that the restrictions and mandates saved lives

now you claim it's the vaccines

that's moving the goalposts

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[TreeBeard]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

also your claim was that the restrictions and mandates saved lives

now you claim it's the vaccines

It can’t be both?

[blackbird]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

no it doesn't

also your claim was that the restrictions and mandates saved lives

now you claim it's the vaccines

that's moving the goalposts

Nonsense. Not moving any goalposts.   The simple fact is vaccine mandates caused a large increase in the number of people getting vaccinated.  Vaccination has proven to save many lives.    It's simple logic.  Mandates increased the number of vaccinated people and more vaccinated people means more lives are saved. 

[blackbird]

With the vaccine, the mandates, and health measures Canada has done a far better job than the UK and the U.S.  Both of those places have had a far greater number of deaths per capita than Canada.  

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Nonsense. Not moving any goalposts.   The simple fact is vaccine mandates caused a large increase in the number of people getting vaccinated.  Vaccination has proven to save many lives.    It's simple logic.  Mandates increased the number of vaccinated people and more vaccinated people means more lives are saved. 

how much of an increase?

you don't know

you just speculate

prove the mandates made enough vulnerable people who didn't get vaccinated get vaccinated

and that they didn't get vaccinated for other reasons

enough to save thousands of lives

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

With the vaccine, the mandates, and health measures Canada has done a far better job than the UK and the U.S.  Both of those places have had a far greater number of deaths per capita than Canada.  

which had nothing to do with mandates or restrictions

and everything to do with population density

giving the government credit for that is asinine

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

how much of an increase?

you don't know

you just speculate

prove the mandates made enough vulnerable people who didn't get vaccinated get vaccinated

enough to save thousands of lives

 

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

which had nothing to do with mandates or restrictions

and everything to do with population density

You are being ridiculous.  The mandates required people in different jobs like health care to get vaccinated and the great majority did get vaccinated.  This is common knowledge.  But you can do a search on these topics yourself.  Don't expect me to do everything for you.  You just want to argue about every little thing.  Obviously just being a stubborn denier.

The simple fact is far more people per million population in the U.S. died from Covid than in Canada.  Nobody disputes that.  Google it.

Edited February 15, 2022 by blackbird

[myata]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Both of those places have had a far greater number of deaths per capita than Canada.  

Why wouldn't you mention Finland, Norway, and even Sweden that never had draconian restrictions, lockdowns and mandates? Because these are the facts and they directly contradict the story that restrictions are necessary. No. They aren't necessary and not justified by the evidence. They are arbitrary and unreasonable. Honest, open and voluntary approach with high quality, effective, efficient and agile healthcare system would and have achieved better results.

The restrictions aren't saving anybody; only covering bureaucratic ar..es incapable of competent and effective management. Yes facts show that. And the facts are sufficient for this conclusion.

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

You are being ridiculous.  The mandates required people in different jobs like health care to get vaccinated and the great majority did get vaccinated.  This is common knowledge.  But you can do a search on these topics yourself.  Don't expect me to everything for you.  You just want to argue about every little thing.  Obviously just being a stubborn denier.

The simple fact is far more people per million population in the U.S. died from Covid than in Canada.  Nobody disputes that.  Google it.

the vast majority got vaccinated before the mandates

so the extra amount who were forced by mandates was a drop in the bucket, not a giant life saver

you are comparing apples to ranges

Google the death rates in different states in America 

many of the states with the most restrictions and mandates had the highest death rates

if the restrictions and mandates have such a huge impact on death rates

then how is that possible that states with far less restrictions did a better job with covid?

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[blackbird]

The right wing in the U.S. in many states are much more distrustful of government and many refused to get vaccinated.  They also oppose health measures much more than people in Canada.  Their vaccinations rates are significantly lower than Canada for second does and booster shots.  They also oppose masks and social distancing.  These factors is what caused their death rates to be much higher.