Ontario Court declares that the Ontario Math Proficiency Test is Unconstitutional

[QuebecOverCanada]

There are some news coming from Ontario that look like Onion/Bee articles. Apparently, math test results are now viewed, by the Ontario Divisional Court, as something not only trivial, but has an adverse effect on racial minorities terribly afflicted by them in the province of Ontario. According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

And you wonder why Québec wants to separate itself?

---

The Ontario Divisional Court has ruled that the Ontario College of Teachers shall grant certification to teacher candidates who have not yet passed the Math Proficiency Test but who have otherwise met all other teacher certification requirements.

The Divisional Court found that the Math Proficiency Test had an adverse impact on entry to the teaching profession for racialized teacher candidates and other reasonable alternatives should have been implemented.

“OTF applauds the efforts of the Ontario Teacher Candidates’ Council (OTCC) for pursuing this successful legal challenge. There is no research to suggest that a standardized test would improve student outcomes or enhance teacher pedagogy. Ontario has some of the best educated teachers in the world and this decision reinforces their professionalism,” stated OTF President Chris Cowley.

Link to the story; https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/news/ontario-court-declares-that-the-ontario-math-proficiency-test-is-unconstitutional/

The judgment in pdf; https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf

Edited December 21, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[QuebecOverCanada]

Meanwhile, in Québec, we take the threat of woke mobs very seriously compared to the folks in the rest of Canada. And we act.

We don't have crazy enough judges, just yet, it seems, to have such a preposterous judgement from our justice system, and we kick the wokeness problem in its nest; the academic system.

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Opinion: Quebec commission proposes bold new approach to protect academic freedom from woke mobs

Christopher Dummitt and Zachary Patterson: In Quebec, a commission is recommending strong action to turn the tide against reactionary mobs

Anyone in Canada who retains even a glimmer of hope that universities can return to being bastions of free thought and academic freedom should watch Quebec, where a commission of inquiry spent the summer and autumn hearing from witnesses and conducting research into the sorry state of post-secondary education in the province. It collected tales of students attempting to get professors fired for saying the wrong word, of cancelled lectures and of intimidation.

None of this should come as a surprise to those who follow university affairs — or the current culture wars in general. Cancel culture is even worse now than in 2018, when British journalist Andrew Sullivan remarked that, “We all live on campus now.” Each week seemingly brings another example of a woke mob determined to tear down a statue, change the name of a street or pressuring libraries and school boards to ban books.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-quebec-commission-proposes-bold-new-approach-to-protect-academic-freedom-from-woke-mobs

Edited December 21, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[Nefarious Banana]

What's your point?

[QuebecOverCanada]

20 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

What's your point?

There are multiple points. 

First off, the anti-racist/white guilt movement has gone too extreme. Even judges let go of common sense and their sense of judgement for ideology. The fact that math tests are deemed discriminatory is preposterous, they are math equations. There is no discrimination in rating a math exam. Discrepancies between groups of people are not caused in that case by racism. The verdict is simply the reflection of an ideology -wokeness- that thinks that every discrepancy between certain groups of people is proof of a privilege, or discrimination. 

Also, there is the fact that there is a crowd out there in English Canada who thinks badly about everything Québec does for maintaining its identity, beit from Bill 101 to 96 to the controversy about Bill 21, it seems to always have someone in Canada crying tears because muh multiculturalism wasn't respected to your extent. You know, if I think we went too far with Bill 21 with the teachers that I think should be exempted, I think Ontario goes too far in the other direction with this judgement. 

Lastly I think it is good that we focus on academic freedom in Québec at least. The quality of social/human sciences lay there. It is not a coincidence we have so many Prime Ministers of Canada who come from Québec. We have excellent academic institutions such as Udem, Laval, McGill among others for only 8 million inhabitants and protecting them from mobs is going to be a good bet for the future. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[Michael Hardner]

QOC,most, not all, complaints about academia are trumped up publicity stunts.  

[Michael Hardner]

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

 

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race 

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

 

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race 

 

And we are good with that ? We need to balance the numbers of certain races in all employment opportunities because why ? looks good in school photos... here is an bad idea , why do we not hire the best qualified person for the job, regardless of race , creed , or religion what happened to that concept ?....Here is another idea take those teachers who can not pass the math test and pull them from school and put them in math class to bring their math skills where they should be... I know that would be to hard...it would make more sense, "everyone gets a trophy", whats next university history professors don't need degrees in history because some races find it to hard...pilots don't need pilot training to fly, you get the point. This type of behavior needs to be called out on every occasion, it is racist, unfair, and plays into the woke play book. 

[Yzermandius19]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

 

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race

woke judges running amuck

and MH goes around making excuses for it

it's not the test that's racist

it's the court

 

the woke have taken over the institutions

time to stop living in denial MH

woke is not some fringe ideology with no institutional power

they are running show

Edited December 22, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

And we are good with that ? We need to balance the numbers of certain races in all employment opportunities because why ? looks good in school photos... here is an bad idea , why do we not hire the best qualified person for the job, regardless of race , creed , or religion what happened to that concept  

I guess if you were up on the literature you might learn why that doesn't work ?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

woke judges running amuck

Look under your bed every night... I already disproved the OP so you don't get to run around shrieking 'woke woke woke'...

[Yzermandius19]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Look under your bed every night... I already disproved the OP so you don't get to run around shrieking 'woke woke woke'...

you disproved nothing

all you did was go full woke apologist

shilling for banning tests under woke rationale

by a woke court

nothing you said disproved any of that

 

any time anyone points out an obvious example of the woke running the show

your cognitive dissonance kicks in

so you can lie to yourself and everyone else claiming that there is no evidence of it

even when there is a mountain of evidence right before your eyes

that's all that happened

Edited December 22, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. you disproved nothing 

2. even when there is a mountain of evidence right before your eyes

 

1. Stop it.  The word 'racism' doesn't appear in the ruling
2. You aren't content to see me make a point, you want to pick a fight generally about the utility of racial hiring.  Given that you won't concede any points, why should I give you my time ?

[QuebecOverCanada]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

 

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race 

 

Is the goal of maintaining a certain percentage of racial quotas by removing the test entirely due to the fact that there are more successful ethnic groups than others, or have I missed something?

[QuebecOverCanada]

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

QOC,most, not all, complaints about academia are trumped up publicity stunts.  

Yes. But wokism doesn't come from anywhere, it has its origins in French Theory, which is rooted in anticolonialism post WWII. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Is the goal of maintaining a certain percentage of racial quotas by removing the test entirely due to the fact that there are more successful ethnic groups than others, or have I missed something?

Indirectly, yes, but the point is to get teachers that represent the communities they teach in - not to hit an abstract number.  It's a noble goal, and forcing math proficiency on every teacher is probably a bad idea anyway.

 

But you are correct - this is racial profiling that influences policy.  I see it as a necessary evil, but I can't deny what it is.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yes. But wokism doesn't come from anywhere, it has its origins in French Theory, which is rooted in anticolonialism post WWII. 

?  Postmodernism is rooted in anticolonialism ?  Well, ok... in the end these are ideas and people in the US who marched in the 1960s weren't reading Derrida...

[QuebecOverCanada]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Indirectly, yes, but the point is to get teachers that represent the communities they teach in - not to hit an abstract number.  It's a noble goal, and forcing math proficiency on every teacher is probably a bad idea anyway.

 

But you are correct - this is racial profiling that influences policy.  I see it as a necessary evil, but I can't deny what it is.

Is lowering standards an effective solution to combat racial inequality of outcome?

I find it quite degrading for my personal experience. I remember when we had, all froshies, a written English proficiency test for my first year in University. Since I was French speaking, my grade to technically pass was lower, even though I aced the exam higher than the grade native English speakers had to get to pursue their studies. And I was perceived as someone from my anglophone peers as someone who just passed because of its mother's tongue.

Edited December 22, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[QuebecOverCanada]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

?  Postmodernism is rooted in anticolonialism ?  Well, ok... in the end these are ideas and people in the US who marched in the 1960s weren't reading Derrida...

I wouldn't qualify people who fight to sit on the same seats and drink the same water fountains as White people in the 60s as being woke. They were Civil Rights Activists.

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

1. Is lowering standards an effective solution to combat racial inequality of outcome?

2. I aced the exam higher than the grade native English speakers had to get to pursue their studies 

 

23 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

3. I wouldn't qualify people who fight to sit on the same seats and drink the same water fountains as White people in the 60s as being woke. They were Civil Rights Activists.

1. Well, it's a trade-off.  I'm not sure why a middle-school history teacher needs to know math, but maybe...
2. Good for you
3. Well, they were woke for the era... maybe 'woke' is a strictly contemporary term.  If you can come up with a definition I would be glad to give you my opinion.

Cheers...

[ironstone]

So candidates that get certification without having to do the math proficiency test, can they end up teaching math??

[blackbird]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:29 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

There are some news coming from Ontario that look like Onion/Bee articles. Apparently, math test results are now viewed, by the Ontario Divisional Court, as something not only trivial, but has an adverse effect on racial minorities terribly afflicted by them in the province of Ontario. According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

And you wonder why Québec wants to separate itself?

---

The Ontario Divisional Court has ruled that the Ontario College of Teachers shall grant certification to teacher candidates who have not yet passed the Math Proficiency Test but who have otherwise met all other teacher certification requirements.

The Divisional Court found that the Math Proficiency Test had an adverse impact on entry to the teaching profession for racialized teacher candidates and other reasonable alternatives should have been implemented.

“OTF applauds the efforts of the Ontario Teacher Candidates’ Council (OTCC) for pursuing this successful legal challenge. There is no research to suggest that a standardized test would improve student outcomes or enhance teacher pedagogy. Ontario has some of the best educated teachers in the world and this decision reinforces their professionalism,” stated OTF President Chris Cowley.

Link to the story; https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/news/ontario-court-declares-that-the-ontario-math-proficiency-test-is-unconstitutional/

The judgment in pdf; https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf

It sounds like the court is taken over and controlled by the woke, cancel culture, cultural Marxist people.  Tragic.

Edited December 22, 2021 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

 

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race 

 

?

OK MH, let's force all of our football teams to consist of 5% black players, 17% asian, etc. Sound good?

And then we can just squeeze people into teaching jobs even though they're unqualified. 

While we're at it, let's abolish the word "merit" and just use "diversity hire" in it's place from now on. 

On the bright side, making a resume will be easy. 

Q1: Identify your skin colour on the chart to the right. 

Q2: Identify your gender from one of the 53 options on the right, OR SELECT OTHER! Honest to god Trudeau, we didn't mean to slight you by not including your gender on this form. I was told that there were only 53 but I was like, "yeah right", but they insisted, so I only put 53 there. IMO there should be like, 60. Or 70. All of the cool ones are like, 45 and over.

Q3: Identify the spots on the doll where conservatives hurt you. 

[blackbird]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

1. Well, it's a trade-off.  I'm not sure why a middle-school history teacher needs to know math, but maybe...
2. Good for you
3. Well, they were woke for the era... maybe 'woke' is a strictly contemporary term.  If you can come up with a definition I would be glad to give you my opinion.

Cheers...

How about "cultural Marxists" or "cancel culture radicals"?

[QuebecOverCanada]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1 Indirectly, yes, but the point is to get teachers that represent the communities they teach in - not to hit an abstract number. 

2 It's a noble goal, and forcing math proficiency on every teacher is probably a bad idea anyway.

3 But you are correct - this is racial profiling that influences policy.  I see it as a necessary evil, but I can't deny what it is.

4 ?  Postmodernism is rooted in anticolonialism ?  Well, ok... in the end these are ideas and people in the US who marched in the 1960s weren't reading Derrida...

Well, they were woke for the era... maybe 'woke' is a strictly contemporary term.  If you can come up with a definition I would be glad to give you my opinion.

5 Cheers...

1 This is not really comprehensible to be quite honest with you. The goal of academia is to teach children, not having a professor of the same origin as the student or be a census oriented institution. I would much rather have teachers who have competence over someone who has the correct skin tone or ethnic background according to the demograph paid by the government agencies a fortune to determine. 

2 It isn't bad to have teachers who are proficient in more than one discipline, as they all intertwine in a way. I don't think lowering the standards will bring in better elements, nor that much worse.

3 I like the fact that you may soon enough will be open to change your mind. Spontaneously, you qualified it as an evil.

4 We have to use the proper definitions of terms we use to have a productive and comprehensible conversation about things, whatever they may be. Wokes who make demands nowadays which are mostly preposterous, such as cancelling J.K. Rowling for calling women... women... ( https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/j-k-rowling-faces-backlash-after-tweeting-support-transphobic-researcher-n1104971 ) or are acting like every disparity or discrepancy between groups of people is a symptom of racism are not the same as the Civil rights movement, which has its own Wikipedia page, and tons of literature about. These men and women of African origin mainly fought a cause that demanded equal rights and opportunities as White people. They were fighting a just cause, and won. Don't soil them with comparing them to Wokes. The proper term would be they were radical in their approach, like the Wokes, but the comparison stops here.

Wokes are travesties, they con you by pretending to have a degree of empathy toward social issues of all kinds, be it racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, but are really just alienating the rest of society to fight these real issues by how extreme their view of equality is, which isn't what even most of people on the Left think - that equality of opportunity is the key in society to social justice -, but think equality of outcome trumps every other method to which we compare every races. Lowering education standards is just a price to pay according to them to get the goal they are seeking to accomplish; equality of outcome across the board. Simple as is.

In the case of this specific verdict, for example, the verdict only defined discrimination in virtue of if the results respected the wet dream of equality of outcome on a bivariate analysis between race and the math test results that would be analyzed, without taking any other factor into consideration. This leaves the door open for many situations in which we would lower the standards of society for racial justice pretense, or take possession of private property of privileged groups to give it to the other groups which will be justified as means to obtain equality. Which isn't something I would like to see happening. There needs to be programs to have less inequality in Canada. But thinking the wokes have some kind of resemblance to the CIvil rights activists is wrong, because they make the fight for equality and the messaging harder to take notice because they are clowns who make a lot of noise while the reasonable are quieter.

5 Merry Holidays to you too. ?

 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Stop it.  The word 'racism' doesn't appear in the ruling

Let me correct you on that one.

https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf