Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: No they shouldn't. If they want to protest, they should do it where the rules are made. The same twits are penalizing businesses like restaurants for following the law. Your free speech rights don't override the rights of everyone else. their right to free speech doesn't override everyone else's rights they are free to protest outside of hospitals whether you or I like their choice of location or not it is already illegal to block access to those hospitals whether they are protesting or not you are not protecting anyone's rights by supporting banning protests outside of hospitals the exact opposite is true Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Aristides said: Interesting No, it ain’t. Its only interesting to a person with the smarts of a midge fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 9 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: their right to free speech doesn't override everyone else's rights they are free to protest outside of hospitals whether you or I like their choice of location or not it is already illegal to block access to those hospitals whether they are protesting or not you are not protecting anyone's rights by supporting banning protests outside of hospitals the exact opposite is true It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, they are free to say whatever they want, just not wherever they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Aristides said: It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, they are free to say whatever they want, just not wherever they want. it has everything to do with free speech you don't get to pick where they can't say it without a damn good reason why that is the case and you don't have that reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: it has everything to do with free speech you don't get to pick where they can't say it without a damn good reason why that is the case and you don't have that reason You don’t think a cancer patient getting chemo needing to walk 5 blocks through the unvaccinated and unmasked protestors is a good enough reason to move them a block or two out of the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You don’t think a cancer patient getting chemo needing to walk 5 blocks through the unvaccinated and unmasked protestors is a good enough reason to move them a block or two out of the way? no because they can have access to the hospital without having to ban protests outside of hospitals for example most of these protests didn't block access and when access was blocked that was already illegal so new law is going to prevent that outcome making things illegal doesn't prevent people for breaking law making dumb laws doesn't make it easier to enforce smart laws it undermines the legitimacy of the law in general when you associate the law with such dumb laws Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 48 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: no because … We both agree that free speech should be limited…. You are for libel, slander and speech that incites violence as being illegal. We just disagree on where the line of allowable speech should be. I tend to side with cancer patients. You tend to side with anti-vaccination mobs. I guess we will just have to wait to see where the Canadian public/politicians/courts fall on this. My guess is that they will be siding with cancer patients… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: We both agree that free speech should be limited…. You are for libel, slander and speech that incites violence as being illegal. We just disagree on where the line of allowable speech should be. I tend to side with cancer patients. You tend to side with anti-vaccination mobs. I guess we will just have to wait to see where the Canadian public/politicians/courts fall on this. My guess is that they will be siding with cancer patients… the cancer patients and protestors are not at odds but Canadians will undoubtedly side against free speech because like you, they hate it I am for reasonable restrictions you are for unreasonable restrictions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: the cancer patients and protestors are not at odds but Canadians will undoubtedly side against free speech because like you, they hate it I am for reasonable restrictions you are for unreasonable restrictions How is it infringing on the right to protest if they had to do it 1 block away to let cancer patients through unmolested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: How is it infringing on the right to protest if they had to do it 1 block away to let cancer patients through unmolested? because they can let cancer patients through without being a block away too that's why Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: it has everything to do with free speech you don't get to pick where they can't say it without a damn good reason why that is the case and you don't have that reason Actually we do get to pick where they can say it, or rather where they can't say it. Edited September 27, 2021 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Aristides said: Actually we do get to pick where they can say it, or rather where they can't say it. not without a good reason and you don't have one whether the law thinks you have one or not or whether the public thinks you have one or not is not important legality is not morality popularity is not morality your opinion and feelings should not supersede rights, morality and/or logic Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: because they can let cancer patients through without being a block away too that's why Did you not read the story of the guy who had to walk 5 blocks through unmasked and unvaccinated mob or protestors to get to his chemo appointment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: not without a good reason and you don't have one whether the law thinks you have one or not or whether the public thinks you have one or not is not important legality is not morality popularity is not morality your opinion and feelings should not supersede rights, morality and/or logic Isn’t morality more about feelings? Do you equate rights with morality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Did you not read the story of the guy who had to walk 5 blocks through unmasked and unvaccinated mob or protestors to get to his chemo appointment? do you not understand that this is not indicative of all protests outside of hospitals or that there are already laws against that for the protests that are outliers? Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Isn’t morality more about feelings? Do you equate rights with morality? no morality is not about feelings morality is about principles feelings often get in the way of principles and morality Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: do you not understand that this is not indicative of all protests outside of hospitals or that there are already laws against that? I would be OK with limiting it in only the problem areas. Yes, I understand the legality. However, in a crowd of thousands, do you think it’s realistic that a few cops go in and arrest the hundred that are the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: no morality is not about feelings feelings often get in the way of morality What is morality about then, if not how you feel about a topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: What is morality about then, if not how you feel about a topic? it is about principles and feelings often get in the way of morality and principles Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: it is about principles and feelings often get in the way of morality and principles Morality is the same as principles? Example please? Edited: as in moral principles. A guideline to do what’s right maybe? Edited September 27, 2021 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Morality is the same as principles? Example please? principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior rights are based on principles too feelings not so much, especially when they contradict moral principles as important as rights banning protests outside of hospitals is far worse behaviour than protesting outside of hospitals outliers who block access to hospitals notwithstanding Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior rights are based on principles too feelings not so much, especially when they contradict moral principles as important as rights banning protests outside of hospitals is far worse behaviour than protesting outside of hospitals Aren’t rights what we as a country granted individuals within a legal framework? You and I have all the same rights. And morals are principles that guide each individual? You and I may differ a lot about what we would consider moral or immoral. Morals may, or may not, be tied to what is legal, but rights are always about what is legal. Do you agree with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 Has the village idiot made some kind of attempt to block protests at hospitals or was that just another lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 46 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Did you not read the story of the guy who had to walk 5 blocks through unmasked and unvaccinated mob or protestors to get to his chemo appointment? He doesn’t care. He also doesn’t understand that freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Aren’t rights what we as a country granted individuals within a legal framework? You and I have all the same rights. And morals are principles that guide each individual? You and I may differ a lot about what we would consider moral or immoral. Morals may, or may not, be tied to what is legal, but rights are always about what is legal. Do you agree with that? rights are not privileges you have them confused the government doesn't grant you rights the government is prevented from taking them away laws which strip rights away are unconstitutional and are supposed to be struck down by the courts even when they fail to do so hate speech laws are unconstitutional 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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