Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Aristides said: He doesn’t care. He also doesn’t understand that freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are two different things. then are both listed under the same section of the charter and both are included in the first amendment it is you who doesn't understand with your distinction without a difference blather as if that changes that rights are being infringed by stupid laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: rights are not privileges you have them confused the government doesn't grant you rights the government is prevented from taking them away laws which strip rights away are unconstitutional and are supposed to be struck down by the courts even when they fail to do so hate speech laws are unconstitutional Where do we get rights from as Canadians then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 29 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: then are both listed under the same section of the charter and both are included in the first amendment it is you who doesn't understand with your distinction without a difference blather as if that changes that rights are being infringed by stupid laws And yet they are separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Where do we get rights from as Canadians then? God it is in the first line of the Charter rights from God > privileges from governments if rights were mere privileges, there would be no need for a constitution, to protect those rights from government infringement Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Aristides said: And yet they are separate. so what? distinction without a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: God it is in the first line of the Charter rights from God > privileges from governments if rights were mere privileges, there would be no need for a constitution, to protect those rights from government infringement You think God informed the framers of the Charter of Rights of what Canadians’ rights should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: so what? distinction without a difference There is a difference, that's why they are separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: God it is in the first line of the Charter rights from God > privileges from governments if rights were mere privileges, there would be no need for a constitution, to protect those rights from government infringement The second line says. Quote The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. In other words, your rights and freedoms aren't absolute and don't supersede the rights and freedoms of others. Edited September 28, 2021 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Aristides said: The second line says. In other words, your rights and freedoms aren't absolute and don't supersede the rights and freedoms of others. the freedoms of others aren't impeded by others rights to protest at the hospital when they are, that is already illegal no new law required your proposed restrictions are not reasonable Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You think God informed the framers of the Charter of Rights of what Canadians’ rights should be? they said as much in the first line of the Charter it's the first line for a reason it isn't just a throwaway statement Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: they said as much in the first line of the Charter it's the first line for a reason it isn't just a throwaway statement Supremacy of God and the rule of law. Show me where god said it is OK to picket hospitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: Supremacy of God and the rule of law. Show me where god said it is OK to picket hospitals. god endowed mankind with freedom of expression that includes picketing outside of hospitals if you don't like how people use those rights too bad for you Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: god endowed mankind with freedom of expression that includes picketing outside of hospitals if you don't like how people use those rights too bad for you Show me where god did that. God also endowed man the freedom to do all sorts of evil things. Historically, religions have been among the most prominent restrictors of freedom of speech. The only rights you have are a product of man’s laws. God didn’t write the Charter. Edited September 28, 2021 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Aristides said: Show me where god did that. God also endowed man the freedom to do all sorts of evil things. Historically, religions have been among the most prominent restrictors of freedom of speech. The only rights you have are a product of man’s laws. God didn’t write the Charter. it is man who restricted the speech not God God inspired the Charter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: they said as much in the first line of the Charter it's the first line for a reason it isn't just a throwaway statement I totally get it…. They believed it too, no doubt! Do you think God informed the framers of the Charter of Rights of what Canadians’ rights should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: I totally get it…. They believed it too, no doubt! Do you think God informed the framers of the Charter of Rights of what Canadians’ rights should be? where else did they get the idea that there is an authority greater than the state that give us these rights and so the government should not infringe on them? only Christian nations invented that idea and they all credited God as the inspiration for it it's not a coincidence without faith in God, those rights wouldn't be enshrined in any constitutions they are referred to as God given rights for a reason, it is not merely an expression Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: I totally get it…. They believed it too, no doubt! Do you think God informed the framers of the Charter of Rights of what Canadians’ rights should be? Your not making fun of a person who is religious are you ? because it sounds like it.. It is after all protected by our nations constitution. Did god sit down with the plank owners of this nation , probably not. But can you say our constitution is not heavily influenced by the same religion, most of todays moral values are created through the bible...including most of our laws...So the question is where did this influence come from? if not god. Edited September 28, 2021 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your not making fun of a person who is religious are you ? because it sounds like it.. It is after all protected by our nations constitution. Did god sit down with the plank owners of this nation , probably not. But can you say our constitution is not heavily influenced by the same religion, most of todays moral values are created through the bible...including most of our laws...So the question is where did this influence come from? if not god. The poster is claiming our legal rights are handed down to us from the Christian God. Is asking questions about how that came to be “making fun”? How many of the 10 Commandments made it into the Canadian constitution? Let’s just take the first one…. No gods before Me. That is antithetical to Canadian rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 28 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: where else did they get the idea that there is an authority greater than the state that give us these rights and so the government should not infringe on them? only Christian nations invented that idea and they all credited God as the inspiration for it it's not a coincidence without faith in God, those rights wouldn't be enshrined in any constitutions they are referred to as God given rights for a reason, it is not merely an expression Gay folks have a right in Canada to get married. This is enshrined in our Charter Rights. Did God intend that to be a right for Canadians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Gay folks have a right in Canada to get married. This is enshrined in our Charter Rights. Did God intend that to be a right for Canadians? All Charter Rights, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, are not necessarily God-given rights. According to what the Bible teaches, there is no such thing as God recognizing gay marriage as legitimate marriage. Just because something is made legal by a government, does not mean it is legitimate as far as God is concerned. Generally there are certain rights that one could say came from God. But there are limitations to rights depending on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: The poster is claiming our legal rights are handed down to us from the Christian God. Is asking questions about how that came to be “making fun”? How many of the 10 Commandments made it into the Canadian constitution? Let’s just take the first one…. No gods before Me. That is antithetical to Canadian rights. So where did all these ideas come from ? the bible, some old guy in a cave where ? And yes this statement proves that... you think that god is made up by man and then is not real, and anyone that believes in that is what ? Quote I totally get it…. They believed it too, no doubt! I'm not a very religious man, but i do think at the end of this life i will have to atone for all my mistakes... My belief in religion is protected by the same constitution we are talking about why is that?, unless you can prove there is no god, or ever has been a god can you do that ? Nor can i prove that there is a god. and yet Yzermanduis has given you lots of evidence that our constitution is heavily influenced by Christian beliefs. you believe in the constitution just not that it has come from god or based on gods words or teachings. Which are recorded in the bible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 37 minutes ago, blackbird said: All Charter Rights, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, are not necessarily God-given rights. According to what the Bible teaches, there is no such thing as God recognizing gay marriage as legitimate marriage. Just because something is made legal by a government, does not mean it is legitimate as far as God is concerned. Generally there are certain rights that one could say came from God. But there are limitations to rights depending on the situation. So who decides which rights God wants us to have? Did God want us to have the right to practice any religion we want? “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” Does that sound compatible with religious freedom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, Army Guy said: So where did all these ideas come from ? the bible, some old guy in a cave where ? These ideas came from people. Where did they get them? You’d have to ask them. Quote And yes this statement proves that... you think that god is made up by man and then is not real, and anyone that believes in that is what ? I questioned how God granted us rights in Canada. I didn’t question God. Quote I'm not a very religious man, but i do think at the end of this life i will have to atone for all my mistakes... My belief in religion is protected by the same constitution we are talking about why is that?, unless you can prove there is no god, or ever has been a god can you do that ? Nor can i prove that there is a god. and yet Yzermanduis has given you lots of evidence that our constitution is heavily influenced by Christian beliefs. you believe in the constitution just not that it has come from god or based on gods words or teachings. Which are recorded in the bible... Where did I say it wasn’t influenced by Christian beliefs??? @Yzermandius19 said that the rights come from God. He didn’t say that the rights come from people who took some ideas from the bible. I would have agreed with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: Gay folks have a right in Canada to get married. This is enshrined in our Charter Rights. Did God intend that to be a right for Canadians? God does not oppose love or marriage God does not think gay's should have any less rights than heterosexuals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: These ideas came from people. Where did they get them? You’d have to ask them. I questioned how God granted us rights in Canada. I didn’t question God. Where did I say it wasn’t influenced by Christian beliefs??? @Yzermandius19 said that the rights come from God. He didn’t say that the rights come from people who took some ideas from the bible. I would have agreed with him. the people who took the ideas from the bible, to discover the idea of rights that should be protected from government infringement, were inspired by God to do so those who were not inspired by God, didn't discover the idea of constitutionally protected rights, until those who were, told them about it and the beliefs that underpined their logic directly or indirectly coming from God is besides the point if you cherish your rights, they came from God, one way or the other, the exact mechanism of that is mere minutae relative to that objective truth Edited September 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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