myata Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: Could it be possible that it seems to you that no one else has noticed because most people think that the restrictions have met all the criteria that you listed? In a totalitarian state people may think that it's reasonable... for a time. Until they have reasons to think otherwise but too bad for the people they could do a heck about it. What was clearly explained about mask mandates at the height of waves two and three, with all-time highs, and when the cases were down to near zero? What kind of sense does it make and to which people, voodoo dance people? What is proportional about general restrictions when for the general population, currently, the impact of covid is lower than that of the traffic accidents and flu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 7:25 PM, Aristides said: Why do you keep insisting that patients should be able to tell hospitals and doctors how to do their jobs and what is safe for their patients? When did you get a medical license? ? You bitch about the cost and waste yet support everything you can that will increase it. We do not refuse treatment on the basis of poor life decisions but patients do not get to set the conditions under which they get treatment. No where did i insist on having patients tell hospitals and doctors how to do their jobs, we have rights, laws, and policies that dictate how hospitals are run, and how doctors should act. And no i did not just get a medical license, but i do know about how our health care is suppose to work. Quote Canada has a government-funded national health insurance program and all Canadian residents are guaranteed under federal law to “have reasonable access to medically necessary hospital and physician services on a prepaid basis, and on uniform terms and conditions. I'm not bitching about costs of health care i was showing that we provide health care to everyone even those that have made bad choices, like suicide, drunk drivers whom kill others, convicted killers etc. By taking a unvaccinated person off a transplant list, they are refusing to provide medical aid because they have not been vaccinated. they are telling them get vaccinated and poof your back on the list. it does not get any clearer than that.. perhaps you can show me where i said patients are setting the conditions under which they get treated. What part of every Canadian is guaranteed medical treatment.. They don't refuse people because they have Ebola, radiation poisoning, or any high risk medical care, why are we starting with covid 19. There are 38,134,480 people in Canada today search results - what is canada population (bing.com) There has been just under 30,000 deaths search results - how many covid deaths in canada (bing.com) which would mean the average Canadian would have a 0.07 chance of dying from covid. or a 4.42 % chance of even getting covid. go to the Confirmed COVID-19 deaths by age group in the link below and see for your self who is in danger of this virus. We looked at every confirmed COVID-19 case in Canada. Here's what we found | CBC News Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on Canadian seniors (statcan.gc.ca) In New Brunswick covid deaths are now unvaccinated or have 1 shot represent 70 % of the deaths while a full 20 % and people that have been vaccinated.... Immunology professor says people over 65 should pretend they're not vaccinated One in five N.B. COVID-19 deaths were people who were fully vaccinated | CBC News He said research is showing that the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccinations begins to fade after six or seven months. And since older and vulnerable groups were vaccinated first, they're seeing the first signs of waning immunity. By the sound of it we are going to be in a continues loop here for getting vaccinated, looks like they will have to amend those passports good for only a limited time... I wonder how many people on here has their vaccines past due... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, myata said: What is proportional about general restrictions when for the general population, currently, the impact of covid is lower than that of the traffic accidents and flu? So you don’t kill the old fella beside you at the grocery store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 33 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: So you don’t kill the old fella beside you at the grocery store? If the old fella is at risk, then he should get the vaccination and/or stay home during flu season. Enough of this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, Goddess said: If the old fella is at risk, then he should get the vaccination and/or stay home during flu season. Enough of this nonsense. And if the old fella does those things, doesn’t he still stand a significantly higher risk of dying if he gets COVID, ala Colin Powell? Do you think we have any obligation to help mitigate the risk to that old fella standing in the grocery line behind you potentially breathing in your viruses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Dowell said: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/ Of the 19,014 individual reports (0.034% of all doses administered), 4,927 were considered serious (0.009% of all doses administered). Serious reactions in less than 1 in 10,000 makes it seem safer than crossing the street. 5,000 serious cases is a lot for people who are in a population demographic where they're not even likely to get the symptoms if they get covid. Most of the cases of myocarditis and pericarditis from vaxxing are in competitive male athletes between 17-25. The current strain of covid won't kill anyone like that in 100 years. There's no science behind vaccinating them, seeing as they can still spread covid anyways if they're vaxxed. A reasonable course of action with them is to test them to see if they've already had covid, and if so, give them the passport without vaxxing. Otherwise, just leave them be. If they want to travel they should just get tested before they leave and before they come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 5 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Is ibuprofen safe? Yes, for sure. Like anything, if you take too much at one time, or take too many high doses over long period of time, you can start to get negative effects from it. Even vitamins are like that. If you don't have any Vitamin A in your body you'll die, and if you eat a polar bear's liver you'll die from the amount of Vitamin A in it. But ibuprofen is definitely safe for two doses, 21 days apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Yes, for sure. Like anything, if you take too much at one time, or take too many high doses over long period of time, you can start to get negative effects from it. Even vitamins are like that. If you don't have any Vitamin A in your body you'll die, and if you eat a polar bear's liver you'll die from the amount of Vitamin A in it. But ibuprofen is definitely safe for two doses, 21 days apart. Of course! Anyone with 2 brain cells knows that we would consider ibuprofen a “safe” drug, right? What a silly question… It has been known for some time that these drugs — called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs — have serious side effects and are a major cause of drug-induced injury. They are estimated to cause at least 16,000 deaths per year and send 100,000 people to the emergency room in the U.S.Jul. 27, 2015 https://bangordailynews.com › health Why the FDA is warning Americans about ibuprofen - Bangor Daily News Edited October 20, 2021 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Of course! Anyone with 2 brain cells knows that we would consider ibuprofen a “safe” drug, right? What a silly question… It has been known for some time that these drugs — called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs — have serious side effects and are a major cause of drug-induced injury. They are estimated to cause at least 16,000 deaths per year and send 100,000 people to the emergency room in the U.S.Jul. 27, 2015 https://bangordailynews.com › health Why the FDA is warning Americans about ibuprofen - Bangor Daily News It is safe within the parameters that I mentioned. However, mandating everyone in Canada to stay on a full prescription of ibuprofen would definitely come at a cost, just like force-vaxxing healthy males between 12-25 does. Do you get it treebeard? Forcing people to take a drug with adverse side effects is bad, especially when there's no actual reason for it in the first place. If you were at risk of having a stroke, would you take ibuprofen daily just so that you could go to restaurants, when there was no other actual benefit for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Of course! Anyone with 2 brain cells knows that we would consider ibuprofen a “safe” drug, right? What a silly question… It has been known for some time that these drugs — called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs — have serious side effects and are a major cause of drug-induced injury. They are estimated to cause at least 16,000 deaths per year and send 100,000 people to the emergency room in the U.S.Jul. 27, 2015 https://bangordailynews.com › health Why the FDA is warning Americans about ibuprofen - Bangor Daily News my partner got Stage Four kidney disease from NSAIDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: It is safe within the parameters that I mentioned. However, mandating everyone in Canada to stay on a full prescription of ibuprofen would definitely come at a cost, just like force-vaxxing healthy males between 12-25 does. Do you get it treebeard? How could all these people tell me that ibuprofen was safe when 16,000+ people die from these drugs every year? How is that “safe”? Clearly, we describe drugs as “safe” even when there is a small chance of adverse effects, would you agree? The term “safe” for ibuprofen, or for vaccines, has caveats. Quote Forcing people to take a drug with adverse side effects is bad, especially when there's no actual reason for it in the first place. Who is being forced to take a vaccine? 9 minutes ago, dialamah said: my partner got Stage Four kidney disease from NSAIDs. Yikes. So sorry to hear that. Edited October 20, 2021 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: How could all these people tell me that ibuprofen was safe when 16,000+ people die from these drugs every year? How is that “safe”? Nothing is safe in extremes. NSAIDs are the most widely used drugs on earth, and about 15% of people exceed the maximum daily dose. That's what's not safe. Quote Clearly, we describe drugs as “safe” even when there is a small chance of adverse effects, would you agree? I would agree that people need to be able to choose whether or not they take drugs with a chance of adverse side effects. Quote The term “safe” for ibuprofen, or for vaccines, has caveats. Who is being forced to take a vaccine? People in the military here, and any civilian in the country who wants to participate in normal society. Re: the kidney problems, I met a young couple who were both into partying really heavily who discovered that they could avoid hangovers by eating two or three NSAIDs before bed. I don't remember if it was Advil or Tylenol or whatever, but they both developed severe liver damage. They weren't even in the 30s when I met them. They didn't die, but I think the damage was permanent. Like I said, anything is bad for you if you use it to the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, WestCanMan said: : the kidney problems, I met a young couple who were both into partying really heavily who discovered that they could avoid hangovers by eating two or three NSAIDs before bed. I don't remember if it was Advil or Tylenol or whatever, but they both developed severe liver damage. They weren't even in the 30s when I met them. They didn't die, but I think the damage was permanent. Like I said, anything is bad for you if you use it to the extreme. Tylenol is not an NSAID, and NSAIDs are metabolized through the kidney, not the liver, so wouldn't cause liver damage. Advil (aka ibuprofen) is an NSAID, so they were probably taking Tylenol (aka acetaminophen) which is metabolized through the liver. When combined with excessive alcohol use, Tylenol can contribute to liver damage. If your friends were not drinking heavily, the Tylenol would not have hurt them. My partner was taking a dose recommended by his doctor to help with chronic pain. Unfortunately, it was enough to damage his kidneys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, TreeBeard said: So you don’t kill the old fella beside you at the grocery store? What a stupid, tired and chewed to bland death quasi "argument". No. You work, and are paid for finding and producing solutions that protect the fella while everybody else can live. Not for broadcasting heartwarming and tear-inducing stories, that's fiction writer's job and on own dime if you didn't know or forgot the difference. I can just see you folks imposing restrictions on sex to protect vulnerable AIDS groups. And why not, why didn't you smartly think about it? Edited October 20, 2021 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Goddess said: If the old fella is at risk, then he should get the vaccination and/or stay home during flu season. Enough of this nonsense. Good old Goddess, f*** that old guy, I gotta be me. And that goes for several posters here. Edited October 20, 2021 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Nothing is safe in extremes. NSAIDs are the most widely used drugs on earth, and about 15% of people exceed the maximum daily dose. That's what's not safe. I would agree that people need to be able to choose whether or not they take drugs with a chance of adverse side effects. People in the military here, and any civilian in the country who wants to participate in normal society. Re: the kidney problems, I met a young couple who were both into partying really heavily who discovered that they could avoid hangovers by eating two or three NSAIDs before bed. I don't remember if it was Advil or Tylenol or whatever, but they both developed severe liver damage. They weren't even in the 30s when I met them. They didn't die, but I think the damage was permanent. Like I said, anything is bad for you if you use it to the extreme. Both ibuprofen and acetaminophen (Tylenol) can cause liver damage when combined with alcohol or overused. It's on the label. Edited October 20, 2021 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 16 hours ago, TreeBeard said: And if the old fella does those things, doesn’t he still stand a significantly higher risk of dying if he gets COVID, ala Colin Powell? Do you think we have any obligation to help mitigate the risk to that old fella standing in the grocery line behind you potentially breathing in your viruses? Yes we should do everything possible with in reason, Do you think the spending of 350 bil plus another 110 bil this year is reasonable, damaging our economy, turning it upside down, with everything costing more, all of that is reasonable.. I like to know at what point do you think it would become unreasonable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I like to know at what point do you think it would become unreasonable.... A while back in the Parliament site I saw a comparison of MP salaries with those of celebrities including NHL players. It was some time back and may have been removed since. In 2020 today, the minimum NHL salary in CAD would be around $860K. A junior MP salary is just under $200, a minister makes twice that and then there are committees, commissions, allowances, etc and other entitlements. And by the way, does NHL pay a pension? The bottom line is, the goal is not that far away. Good to know that at least in some projects the country can still achieve objectives, with automatic annual raises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Yes we should do everything possible with in reason, Do you think the spending of 350 bil plus another 110 bil this year is reasonable, damaging our economy, turning it upside down, with everything costing more, all of that is reasonable.. I like to know at what point do you think it would become unreasonable.... How much less should we have spent? How many more deaths would that have meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Aristides said: Both ibuprofen and acetaminophen (Tylenol) can cause liver damage when combined with alcohol or overused. It's on the label. And young people can still read that fine print, so they had no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, TreeBeard said: How much less should we have spent? How many more deaths would that have meant? A lot less, and while it was a time where people needed a helping hand, well over 350 bil is to much. there were a lot of people taking advantage of the cerb, lot's of kids where collecting, while living at home with parents earning over 150 k , lots of examples of people cheating getting caught and not having to pay anything back...according to the experts cerb and business programs cost the government just over half that amount, nobody is saying where the other half was spent... Our government has already put a price on a life, and what they are willing to pay for each one, in a soldiers case it is one years wages and a free burial or about 60 k...of course that is based on rank, but you get the idea. Plus you have the option of getting buried in the nations military cemetery in Ottawa for free. Your not suggesting that there is a direct collation to spending and the amount of deaths this virus has taken are you ? I mean taken the many precautions required did not cost the government a whole lot. social distance free, masks, government did spend a whack on masks for hospitals and first responders everyone else had to buy them, staying home for a lot of people it was free, the government did pay out Cerb for those that where put out of work , but we have already taken that into account. I think the most important thing we take out of this whole pandemic are the lessons we are not talking about the condition of our health care to handle any mass causality event.. shortage of ICU's, and staff to man them, and also our lack of federal government emergence supplies such as masks, gowns and more, and to have them made in country...also our long term care homes, the election is over they will soon be on their own once again, with maybe Quebec, because they are putting additional funding towards it. And shutting the country down for a short period of time was required, but it should have been a total shut down no one in , and not wait until the virus took hold with people coming and going from China and india etc... vacationers should have been told your on your own, but your not getting back in, I'm talking after Justin told them it was not a good idea hundreds of thousands left any ways then bitched they could not get home right away... Edited October 20, 2021 by Army Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowell Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 10/19/2021 at 5:43 PM, WestCanMan said: 5,000 serious cases is a lot for people who are in a population demographic where they're not even likely to get the symptoms if they get covid. The 99.991% of the people who didn't have a serious reaction is a big number. The 0.009% that did have a serious reaction is a small number. If it helps to get things back to normal, it is a good tradeoff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) Vaccines is a good thing. Masks can be useful in some, specific places and situations. It's not what, it's who. In whose hands that is. In the hands of "lets start with travel from Wuhan, no now wait for the total 0 cases for 17.5 months" people? Give a sledgehammer to an idiot and see what happens (Canada inflation rate hits 18 months high). Just the time for MPs and chief PHOs to get another well deserved automatic annual rise of 4% (of 400K = 16,000 hello our frontline heroes in it together). Edited October 21, 2021 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 13 hours ago, Dowell said: The 99.991% of the people who didn't have a serious reaction is a big number. The 0.009% that did have a serious reaction is a small number. If it helps to get things back to normal, it is a good tradeoff. That's not a good tradeoff at all. The youngest, healthiest Canadians are getting injured by a drug that offers them no benefit at all, and that offers no benefit to society. What do you say to a mother whose 13 year old was killed by the vaccine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 4:30 PM, Cannucklehead said: If you went walking around downtown with a rifle in your hands how many people do you think would want to approach you, stand next to you or even talk to you? Imma say it louder for the people in the back: You. Can't. Spread. Diseases. You. Don't. Have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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