Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[Army Guy]

22 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

86% of eligible population got vaccinated. What kind of fascism is this? It is the will of majority over the stuborn selfish or misinformed minority for their unwise decision we are still paying the price with deaths, cancelled surgeries and lockdowns and job lost.

Do you think they did that because they seen the light, or has all the restriction forced people to get it... restrictions like losing your job if your not vaccinated, and now getting your name taken of a life saving list for organ transplant because your not vaccinated, refusing medical live saving medical treatment... and this is not the end of the restrictions, they continue to grow everyday, and some of them don't even make sense to the common person, canceling thanks giving in NB for 48 hours because we are not responsible enough to make sure everyone has the jab, and yet you can go to a restaurant with the entire block and eat turkey dinner there no issues...as we are not smart enough to have it next weekend, or go to a restaurant and eat there...this pandemic is full of examples that do not  make sense...

Not one person or organization can say with 100 % certainty that these vaccinations are not harmful to everyone, there has already been deaths related to this vaccination. I know it is crazy to think that maybe one of my family may die, to some this is a real concern it is not misinformed or a bad chioce it is reality, nobody can guarantee it's success...and most of those deaths being recorded now are people who refused to get vaccinated, it is them that are paying the price...the jobs lost is just the beginning wait until workplaces start laying off all these people for not getting the vaccination...I think it is going to be higher than most people think. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Army Guy

[Army Guy]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:23 PM, TreeBeard said:

The poster was claiming that someone with the COVID virus shouldn’t be counted as dying from COVID if there were other factors.  

So, I changed the virus in my example to HIV-AIDS.

If someone dies of pneumonia, when the have AIDS, the medical community counts that as a death from AIDS.  The person woulnd’t have died from pneumonia if they didn’t have AIDS.  

People who die with COVID wouldn’t have died if the didn’t have COVID, so I am wondering why the poster wouldn’t count that as a death from COVID….?

Not sure why this is so hard to figure out...

Most of those that died from "covid" were elderly people with serious medical issues already, like your first example of AIDS, It was the AIDS that was going to kill that person in short order, Covid was just the virus that pushed them over the edge...along with several other medical factors brought on by having aids ...So how do we list the cause of death, list them all, or list the primary cause AIDS....

Like a patient with cancer taking chemo, the radiation proves to much for them to handle and they die... did they die of cancer or radiation poisoning ? There is a choice to be made here, we are all human and can make mistakes so how many of these deaths are recorded correctly. another example how many deaths in Canada due to the flu, and how many are recorded as dying from the flu in the last 2 years... I think you'll see a dramatic difference in the numbers from before the pandemic and after ... why is that ?

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure why this is so hard to figure out...

Most of those that died from "covid" were elderly people with serious medical issues already, like your first example of AIDS, It was the AIDS that was going to kill that person in short order, Covid was just the virus that pushed them over the edge...along with several other medical factors brought on by having aids ...So how do we list the cause of death, list them all, or list the primary cause AIDS....

Like a patient with cancer taking chemo, the radiation proves to much for them to handle and they die... did they die of cancer or radiation poisoning ? There is a choice to be made here, we are all human and can make mistakes so how many of these deaths are recorded correctly. another example how many deaths in Canada due to the flu, and how many are recorded as dying from the flu in the last 2 years... I think you'll see a dramatic difference in the numbers from before the pandemic and after ... why is that ?

So how would you classify someone who is 80 who died of their heart stopping because they got COVID?   Old age?

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So how would you classify someone who is 80 who died of their heart stopping because they got COVID?   Old age?

I'll go out on a limb here and say heart failure for 100 alex.  I'll say it again most of those that have died are elderly with serious medical conditions before they had Covid which has severely compromised their health.  

guy has a heart attack on the stairs and falls down them did he die from a heart attack or the fall.  

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Do you think they did that because they seen the light, or has all the restriction forced people to get it...

Yes overwhelming majority as much as 80% got their vaccines because they knew wisely that vaccines are the best protection they can get from Covid and the only way to end this pandemic

[CITIZEN_2015]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

Not one person or organization can say with 100 % certainty that these vaccinations are not harmful to everyone, 

No nothing is 100% safe not even every day driving/street crossing or the food you eat every day but all experts in the fields and organizations are unanimous that the danger of Covid and risk of dying from it is by far more than vaccines.

[myata]

Risk and benefit do not justify overwhelming restrictions on individual freedoms. This is right out of every single totalitarian playbook, for greater good / nasty enemy of the people and we're happily treading down this well beaten path under the muzak of "travel from Wuhan" exzperts.

[Zeitgeist]

I’ll venture to guess that COVID-19 is the first of many crises used to justify removing freedoms and keeping people at or close to home. Climate change is the next big excuse.  If your freedoms aren’t outright removed, the financial burdens of state-imposed costs will take care of the rest.  Think of that additional 11 cents a litre in carbon taxes added to your fill-up.  Think of the $200.00 per person PCR test you have to pay each time you leave the country and return to Canada (on top of whatever costs other countries make you pay to prove you’re not a biohazard when you leave Canada).

I think much of this is about controlling people to protect extremely privileged people who can incur the costs or avoid them.  The costs of food, housing, and the basic goods and services that we need to survive and feel somewhat normal are going through the roof, but you can tell yourself you’re keeping your neighbours safe and saving the planet.   It’s a scam.

Governments aren’t looking out for your interests.   They’re following scripts passed onto them from apparatchiks in international organizations.   Canada has been chosen for the resettlement of migrants and to be the face of a progressive western country following plans to “build back better.”  The bottom line is a higher cost of living and less freedom.  I don’t trust our governments, which are incompetent and lack the courage to challenge the “consensus.”

Edited October 11, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

Governments aren't there to challenge the status quo. That maybe the biggest naivity of all and why do we keep returning to it, while it's obvious that has exactly zero sense. Why would a $200K annually plus allowances, plus benefits etc with automatic annual raise MP (and a minister, at least twice that) want to challenge anything? What could go wrong for them, in this picture? Would you, just think about it.

And if you thought there's a limit somewhere near, think twice. A happy brochure about Canada's parliament I read recently compares MP salaries to those of the NHL players. Probably just some fun numbers. May be.

Edited October 11, 2021 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

36 minutes ago, myata said:

Governments aren't there to challenge the status quo. That maybe the biggest naivity of all and why do we keep returning to it, while it's obvious that has exactly zero sense. Why would a $200K annually plus allowances, plus benefits etc with automatic annual raise MP (and a minister, at least twice that) want to challenge anything? What could go wrong for them, in this picture? Would you, just think about it.

And if you thought there's a limit somewhere near, think twice. A happy brochure about Canada's parliament I read recently compares MP salaries to those of the NHL players. Probably just some fun numbers. May be.

Well that’s the point.  MP’s are insulated from these higher costs of living that they impose so that they can keep the riff raff out of their neighborhoods and in subsidized housing while telling themselves they’re stopping climate change (as emissions increase both nationally and internationally).  They won’t be dealing with the thousands of refugees that suddenly appear in the inner city rooming houses.

Pay more, stay home, do what you’re told fearful, ignorant minions.  

[myata]

There are so many experts in the country and no one thought of comparing the rate of MP's automatic annual raises with that at which pensions and benefits of regular commoners are indexed (if, that is). What if there were some wonderful discoveries there? If not for a Nobel then certainly Canadian Covid response prize.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes overwhelming majority as much as 80% got their vaccines because they knew wisely that vaccines are the best protection they can get from Covid and the only way to end this pandemic

You don't know what drove people to get vaccinated, how many of those people were swayed because they could not live with the restrictions. Which now include losing your job, and be rejected from life saving organ transplants in some hospitals.  This is already crazy, what is next round them all up and put them in camps...or hunt them down and force the injection... ya it sounds crazy right now , i thought firing you from your job was crazy, and i thought rejecting people from organ transplants was out of this world retarded, and yet here we are...Look I personal agree with you people should get vaccinated, but i also believe everyone should have a choice regardless of why. Every choice has consequences. 

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No nothing is 100% safe not even every day driving/street crossing or the food you eat every day but all experts in the fields and organizations are unanimous that the danger of Covid and risk of dying from it is by far more than vaccines.

Not all the experts agree, you still have at least 10 % of the  countries medical professionals refusing to get the needle, why ? are they not experts as well...are these the same experts that have killed over 25,000 Canadians in 2019 alone due to mistakes or bad judgements, and what about those agencies that approve all these vaccines, their record is not perfect at all i still remember the polio shots and how much damage they did when the first come out "another rushed vaccine" , and there is plenty more, enough atleast to give anybody some pause or decide it is not worth it... 

[myata]

"Travel from Wuhan is not a problem".... "mandatory annual and indefinite experimental vaccination, not a problem". Dr Charlie Smith, not a problem. There are no problems in our system, just as long as salaries and benefits keep rolling in.

[WestCanMan]

Here's exactly where we stand right now - the claim that we need to get vaccinated is bogus.

People under 40 don't need to get vaccinated because 1) only about 250 Canadians under 40 have died from covid, so vaccinating all 25 million of them isn't going to save enough lives 2) to justify the serious health risk that the vaccination poses to very healthy individuals who are not at risk from covid at all, 3) especially when getting the vaccine won't prevent them from spreading covid.

 

All of that is science. Those are all verified facts that not even the most obedient vaxx apologist can challenge. We're done here.

[myata]

Blind and unnecessary promotion and imposition of vaccine mandates causes backlash and unnecessary politicization of a public health issue. Texas joined Montana and Florida in banning vaccine mandates for all organizations, including private.

[CITIZEN_2015]

17 hours ago, Army Guy said:

. Which now include losing your job,  

Yes because I don't wish to work with an unvaccinated person or even be in the same room or office because he or she has 10 to 22 times more risk of carrying covid virus.

Businesses and governments have the right to protect their employees and I have the right to refuse working in the same environment that unvaccinated people work. If they have a medical reason then they have to present their case and get approval but this vaccination is not a choice to opt out because it affects other people like drunk driving and smoking in public places is not a choice either for same reason.

Edited October 12, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

31 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

... because he or she has 10 to 22 times more risk of carrying covid virus.

Is there evidence of that (literally, as said) or another case of stretching and massaging the numbers? Besides, numerical probability does not guarantee anything in individual cases. One can be non vaccinated and very careful avoiding risks of infection; and one can vaccinated and involved in all kind of risky behaviors,  with an established fact that vaccination does not prevent infection and transmission. Which individual would be of higher risk to the public? This is like prohibiting drunk driving and completely ignoring all other cases of dangerous driving.

Using such broad and simplistic arguments to undermine and compromise individual freedoms is a path to authoritarianism; and moreover it won't lead to effective solutions as any blind and simplistic approach. Just as seen in "travel from Wuhan" fiasco, after two decades of warnings and direct experiences.

[taxme]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:35 AM, Army Guy said:

Do you think they did that because they seen the light, or has all the restriction forced people to get it... restrictions like losing your job if your not vaccinated, and now getting your name taken of a life saving list for organ transplant because your not vaccinated, refusing medical live saving medical treatment... and this is not the end of the restrictions, they continue to grow everyday, and some of them don't even make sense to the common person, canceling thanks giving in NB for 48 hours because we are not responsible enough to make sure everyone has the jab, and yet you can go to a restaurant with the entire block and eat turkey dinner there no issues...as we are not smart enough to have it next weekend, or go to a restaurant and eat there...this pandemic is full of examples that do not  make sense...

Not one person or organization can say with 100 % certainty that these vaccinations are not harmful to everyone, there has already been deaths related to this vaccination. I know it is crazy to think that maybe one of my family may die, to some this is a real concern it is not misinformed or a bad chioce it is reality, nobody can guarantee it's success...and most of those deaths being recorded now are people who refused to get vaccinated, it is them that are paying the price...the jobs lost is just the beginning wait until workplaces start laying off all these people for not getting the vaccination...I think it is going to be higher than most people think. 

Welcome to a medical communist tyranny country called Canada where discrimination and segregation now exists and is being enforced by our communist politicians. This is not a country of freedom and choice any longer.

The non vaccinated ones are now starting to be treated like the black slaves in America and in apartheid South Africa of long ago. The non vaccinated people are not allowed to be able to go into and sit down and eat in any restaurant with family or friends anymore just like there were places where black slaves could not go into in America and South Africa long ago.

We would never tolerate this kind of discrimination against blacks in Canada today. So, why are we now discriminating against others, namely the non vaccinated, just because they refuse to not want to take any vaccine jabs? 

In Canada, just over a year and a half ago, Canadians were free to come and go and do whatever they wanted to do as they pleased without any Covid like communist restrictions getting in their way. Canada has become a country where now medical communist tyranny now rules the land and the majority of the vaccinated could careless. Let those non vaccinated people get sick and die. Deny them any surgery because they are not vaccinated.

And starting October 30th, those people that are not vaccinated will not be allowed to board an airplane, a train or a cruise ship. We, the non vaccinated, are now political prisoners in our once freedom loving country called Canada. This is not a country of freedom and choice anymore. Canada has now become a communist like medical tyranny dictatorship where if you refuse to take the jab then pretty much go away and die. You are not needed anymore. 

I despise this country now, and most of all I despise even more with those that are all too willing to just go along to get along and are now mocking and attacking the non vaccinated for standing up for their rights and freedoms. Apartheid left South Africa and moved it's headquarters to Canada. There can be no doubt about it that the non vaccinated people are now the new black slaves of the world today. Believe it or not. I certainly do. ?

 

[taxme]

On 10/10/2021 at 4:02 PM, Army Guy said:

Not sure why this is so hard to figure out...

Most of those that died from "covid" were elderly people with serious medical issues already, like your first example of AIDS, It was the AIDS that was going to kill that person in short order, Covid was just the virus that pushed them over the edge...along with several other medical factors brought on by having aids ...So how do we list the cause of death, list them all, or list the primary cause AIDS....

Like a patient with cancer taking chemo, the radiation proves to much for them to handle and they die... did they die of cancer or radiation poisoning ? There is a choice to be made here, we are all human and can make mistakes so how many of these deaths are recorded correctly. another example how many deaths in Canada due to the flu, and how many are recorded as dying from the flu in the last 2 years... I think you'll see a dramatic difference in the numbers from before the pandemic and after ... why is that ?

Yet, thousands of Canadians are dying every year from over dosing on Fentanyl, and that is no big deal in Canada today. Less people are dying from Covid than are dying from Fentanyl and yet Covid has become such a big deal. People by the tens of thousands die from the many flu viruses that have been coming around for decades now in Canada and nobody gave a crap or were forced to take a covid like vaccine jab for any of those flu's. Even HIV was a communicable disease and yet there never was any forced vaccine jabs for all. Unh? 

If the fools out there who thinks that because they are fully vaccinated and that is it, well I have very bad news for them. Those firt two jabs are just the beginning of more jabs to come. The booster jabs are on their way. Everyone will be told that they need to boost up and take a booster jab or three to help prop up the old Covid vaccine jabs that apparently are not even working. Those that have been full vaccinated are still getting Covid and many are now ending up in some hospital ICU ward along side those non vaccinated people who were not vaccinated. What a laugh. 

And for those who do not want to take any of those booster jabs they will be in time forced to take those booster jabs or else they will find themselves standing on the outside looking in. They will be discriminated against just like the non vaccinated ones are being discriminated against today. If people think that this plandemic will soon be over they are fools. The globalist plans are to keep this covid plandemic going for years to come. Just wait and see. ?

  

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Is there evidence of that (literally, as said) or another case of stretching and massaging the numbers? Besides, numerical probability does not guarantee anything in individual cases.

What evidence do you want? What could be a stronger evidence than existing data on Covid-related infections in Canada and around the world. There is nothing more solid than existing real time data. We all go by that.

[Infidel Dog]

18 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What evidence do you want? What could be a stronger evidence than existing data on Covid-related infections in Canada and around the world. There is nothing more solid than existing real time data. We all go by that.

I can answer that one Citizen because I've had experience with the kind of "evidence" you use.

I would request you break your pattern and offer something up that is not cherry picked by region or tiny time period.

Do you have anything like say, Dr Dennis Rancourt's study, Analysis of all-cause mortality by week in Canada 2010-2021, by province, age and sex: There was no COVID-19 pandemic, and there is strong evidence of response-caused deaths in the most elderly and in young males?

I mean if it wasn't even a pandemic, I'm not sure why you're so frightened of this small minority of "hes or shes" that for all we know might even be naturally immune like the 1,592,594 recovered from Covid in Canada most likely are.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes because I don't wish to work with an unvaccinated person or even be in the same room or office because he or she has 10 to 22 times more risk of carrying covid virus.

Businesses and governments have the right to protect their employees and I have the right to refuse working in the same environment that unvaccinated people work. If they have a medical reason then they have to present their case and get approval but this vaccination is not a choice to opt out because it affects other people like drunk driving and smoking in public places is not a choice either for same reason.

This is the exact kind of fake-science fear mongering that dirty politicians are using to divide Canadians - you know, the ones who are targeted by big pharma lobbyists.

Essentially, the government doesn't want to take on the draconian task of forcing everyone to needlessly take the vaccine, so they try to use fear to get their useful covidiots (vaccinated people) to put pressure on the unvaccinated.

The end result is just gleeful lobbyists and whatever else that means, and 25 million Canadians getting needlessly vaccinated.

IF YOU'RE SO CONFIDENT IN YOUR VACCINES, THEN STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY NEED TO DO! If you need to live in a bubble, go ahead. No one gives a shit. The fact that you're weak and afraid doesn't mean that other people have to cater to you. 

And there's no such thing as 10-22x more risk of carrying the coronavirus. Vaccinated people carry it too.

The people who lied to you about where the virus came from (YOU'RE A RACIST IF YOU SAY BSL4 LAB!!!!), said that H2H transmission wasn't occurring although they knew it was, said that blocking travel from covid hotspots was racist and then celebrated when Trudeau blocked countries where the Delta samient was breaking out, said that HCQ kills people, published fake articles saying that HCQ was making matters worse and then had to retract the articles without apologizing, said that natural immunity doesn't work against covid, said that the vaccines would be safe, said that the vaccines would get us to herd immunity, said that people couldn't get sick after vaxxing, said that people wouldn't die after vaxxing, said that "mostly the elderly with co-morbidities die after vaxxing" (without mentioning that's just like covid), denied that young people were getting harmed by the vaccine, refuse to report on vaxx deaths, give the misleading impression that young & healthy people die of covid, and overreported covid deaths by counting people as dying "of covid" in instance when it was merely one of their many causes of death (94% of "covid deaths" in the US only have covid as one of the co-morbidities. On average there are 2.6 other causes of death. Only 6% of the covid deaths are like purely "covid deaths") are the ones who are now giving you the 10-22% stat.

You're a tool for big pharma and the members of the gov't who are 'pressured' by big pharma. 

[WestCanMan]

16 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

like the 1,592,594 recovered from Covid in Canada 

"But, but, but, I thought that 'novel' coronavirus meant that humans don't have any natural immunity to it. Surely all of those people died, unless they were vaccinated." - the covidiot. 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes because I don't wish to work with an unvaccinated person or even be in the same room or office because he or she has 10 to 22 times more risk of carrying covid virus.

Businesses and governments have the right to protect their employees and I have the right to refuse working in the same environment that unvaccinated people work. If they have a medical reason then they have to present their case and get approval but this vaccination is not a choice to opt out because it affects other people like drunk driving and smoking in public places is not a choice either for same reason.

What about working from home, or separating vaccinated workers from unvaccinated ones, or any other compromise.  But there is NO compromise here YOUR fired, go home and stay home and good luck finding another job in this climate...remember we are talking about 10 to 15 % of our total work force, one already hit hard by CERB and workers failure to return to work...

How legal is that anyways, i ask because there has been talk about unlawful dismissals, anyone with a legal back ground... any ways.

Refusing living saving operations on the same grounds, and what is the next step in this goat rodeo , rounding them up and placing them in camps, it's not that big of a jump from what we have right now. According to the other pro vac guys there is a choice to be made, one is to get the shot and carry on as if you were normal, and take your chances on everything will work out there will be no complications, rainbows and unicorns.... or your stripped of your job, which translates into lossing your home, car, everything really if you can not find other employment...some hospitals are refusing life saving operations . These people are being asked to put their lives in danger as well as their families, because the rest of the public have bought into how scary this pandemic is...a virus that has a what a 95 % survival rate.... . And just like every topic that is on this board there are firm NO and YES sides, no compromise. No compassion for the other side which has been painted or should i say tainted  with one big brush... Rednecks, uneducated, conspiracy theorists.. not once are they put into the concerned parent category, or they don't trust the government or the medical community. Sorry for the rant but there is always 2 sides to every story, and right now we are only hearing one side... the side that is yelling the same argument over and over until everyone is a full believer...