The Liberal government is Canada's biggest problem

[Army Guy]

Why is it that so many people see and know this, and yet these crazy Basta**s are still ahead in the polls, and are in position of creating another liberal majority... Are Canadians really that naïve to see through all the liberal smoking mirrors, maybe Canada as a nation has just outlived its life expectancy and now the left wants a something new, something dripping with socialism... And this story did not come from the rebel, but rather the Financial Post, even they can smell the shit that are coming of the liberals....

Diane Francis: The Liberal government is Canada's biggest problem (msn.com)

[Moonlight Graham]

People like getting free money, and don't like the prospect of not getting any more free money.  The Liberals have been a good mommy and daddy giving out free cash to many Canadians.  The Liberals should have this election in the bag.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why is it that so many people see and know this, and yet these crazy Basta**s are still ahead in the polls, and are in position of creating another liberal majority... Are Canadians really that naïve to see through all the liberal smoking mirrors, maybe Canada as a nation has just outlived its life expectancy and now the left wants a something new, something dripping with socialism... And this story did not come from the rebel, but rather the Financial Post, even they can smell the shit that are coming of the liberals....

Diane Francis: The Liberal government is Canada's biggest problem (msn.com)

Not you, but too many conservatives are batshit crazy with Q'anon, anti-masking, anti-vaccine, "freedom rallies", etc.  I think that's part of why people are saying they'll take a relatively sane Liberal government over one that has to cater to nutjobs.  That, combined with conservatives habit of cutting social programs while offering tax breaks to corporations is not a good look.  The conservative mantra that businesses use money they save to create more jobs has been disproven through real-world results.   They're also widely viewed as pro-business to the detriment of the environment.  They also have the unfortunate reputation of being anti-progressive, which does not appeal to around 60% of the voting population.

When the lower earners in Canada see how the rich get breaks and more breaks, while they struggle more and more - these "freebies" are their just due, not a bribe.  And lower-earners are becoming a higher proportion of the population.

I don't know if the conservatives will get re-elected any time soon, without some really fundamental changes in what they're offering.  I suspect Trudeau will have to screw up a LOT for the conservatives to have a shot, unless they can start appealing to people who're suffering the most under capitalism and to distance themselves from nutjobs and religious fundamentalists.   

 

[Army Guy]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Not you, but too many conservatives are batshit crazy with Q'anon, anti-masking, anti-vaccine, "freedom rallies", etc.  I think that's part of why people are saying they'll take a relatively sane Liberal government over one that has to cater to nutjobs.  That, combined with conservatives habit of cutting social programs while offering tax breaks to corporations is not a good look.  The conservative mantra that businesses use money they save to create more jobs has been disproven through real-world results.   They're also widely viewed as pro-business to the detriment of the environment.  They also have the unfortunate reputation of being anti-progressive, which does not appeal to around 60% of the voting population.

When the lower earners in Canada see how the rich get breaks and more breaks, while they struggle more and more - these "freebies" are their just due, not a bribe.  And lower-earners are becoming a higher proportion of the population.

I don't know if the conservatives will get re-elected any time soon, without some really fundamental changes in what they're offering.  I suspect Trudeau will have to screw up a LOT for the conservatives to have a shot, unless they can start appealing to people who're suffering the most under capitalism and to distance themselves from nutjobs and religious fundamentalists.   

 

Your right, there are alot of bat shit crazy conservatives, and at one time even i was leaning towards the crazy side, becasue nothing else was working..... But in the same token there are a lot of bat shit crazies on the left as well, take a look at some of the ideas to come out of the NDP Convention. disbanding the police, the military, even some of the liberals ideas when put into context of todays crushing debt, child care, universal income, with 400 bil already spent, and very little to show for it, not to mention a lot of finical institutes are warning about adding to much more debt, and the liberals are talking about spending another 200 bil as a starter...  greed is good ,, it makes you want to get out of bed, but the bank only has so much cash... and a major recession is not good for anyone...left or right...

Every one knows that the conservatives are not going to take on major cuts to spending already on the books, nor are they going to cut much needed social programs originated during the pandemic... or so says O tool, it would be political suicide to make any cuts to soon, but one must also be reasonable these payments have to stop at some time we can not sustain them forever..... and as far as the environment goes come on do anyone really think the liberal plan is going to do any real good in lowering our emissions ... My grand son could come up with a better plan... take our money in a form of taxes , then give it back to us at the end of the year.... yup I'm convinced...

I'm not sure how everyday Canadians can stand there and vote for some one that has lied, cheated, covered up, refuses to take any responsibility for any of his actions, is above the law.. And if that is the government that Canadians want, it is one they deserve... Canadians want what you call as their due... i say the well is only so deep, and when she runs out then what, who cleans up that mess , our grand children... why , because we did not have any vision to look forward... todays Canadians don't know what it is like to suffer, when your country is broke the dollar is worth nothing, and we have to depend on the west to pull us up out of that, ask the Greeks what it is like... Capitalism built this nation, not social programs... and yes everyone should call out the wingnuts and extremist, on both sides, but also make decisions based on facts and figures, know  solutions, not by spending it's way out of debt...

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Not you, but too many conservatives are batshit crazy with Q'anon, anti-masking, anti-vaccine, "freedom rallies", etc.  I think that's part of why people are saying they'll take a relatively sane Liberal government over one that has to cater to nutjobs. 

Justin Trudeau is a nutter too though.  He suffers from a mental illness called narcissism.  Lefties and righties suffer from different types of crazy.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Capitalism built this nation, not social programs... and yes everyone should call out the wingnuts and extremist, on both sides, but also make decisions based on facts and figures, know  solutions, not by spending it's way out of debt...

A value we have as Canadians is helping our neighbors; capitalism encourages us to leave our neighbors behind.

I'm no expert in economics, but I watch stuff (like Ted Talks), and read some.  A country isn't a household, and the debt a country has isn't like the debt a household has.   A country that runs a deficit to build roads and hospitals is investing in its future, and the future of its citizens.  A populace that can afford to buy the products capitalism produces is creating the economy.  Policies that erode the buying power of consumers simply means the government will end up supporting businesses through tax cuts, incentives and sometimes outright bailouts.  For example, in the States (and probably Canada), Walmart employees also collect benefits because they're so poorly paid, while Walmart owners get stinking rich.   Does this make sense to you?  If "freebies" are bad, they should be bad for corporations and businesses, as well as individuals, imo.

This isn't the fault of Conservatives specifically, imo.  Both sides have done the same - but Conservatives want to be known as "fiscally responsible", aka no freebies for individuals.   

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

A value we have as Canadians is helping our neighbors; capitalism encourages us to leave our neighbors behind.

You can help your neighbours the most by trading with them.  We've helped China get out of poverty by doing business with them, not by giving them charity.  You don't build wealth through charity, you build wealth by selling things to other people in exchange for money.

The Liberals have no intention of paying down the deficit they've incurred.  They're ready to announce a national childcare program.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You can help your neighbours the most by trading with them.  We've helped China get out of poverty by doing business with them, not by giving them charity.  You don't build wealth through charity, you build wealth by selling things to other people in exchange for money.

The Liberals have no intention of paying down the deficit they've incurred.  They're ready to announce a national childcare program.

We should stop doing business with China, but they are so entwined with the global trade, it'd be nearly impossible.  And to be fair, doing trade with China and India and the US, and everywhere else, has helped all countries achieve a better standard of living relative to 100 years ago. 

It's also made some people extremely wealthy, the rich lobby to have taxes on them ever lower, the gov has to find funding somewhere, so it increasingly becomes the role of the non-wealthy to subsidize the rich.   Income inequality increases, people become more frustrated and angry, and eventually this leads to bad outcomes - think guillotines.  Income inequality also preceded the market collapse in 2008 and 1929 - and the fall of the Roman Republic. 

But I don't expect such a collapse to happen in my lifetime, and maybe it never will.  It's just interesting to see similar cycles play out in history and compare them to our own time.  Maybe we'll be smarter than the Romans and the French, and ourselves in 1929 and 2008.  Eventually we'll figure it out, maybe.   

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, dialamah said:

A value we have as Canadians is helping our neighbors; capitalism encourages us to leave our neighbors behind.

I'm no expert in economics, but I watch stuff (like Ted Talks), and read some.  A country isn't a household, and the debt a country has isn't like the debt a household has.   A country that runs a deficit to build roads and hospitals is investing in its future, and the future of its citizens.  A populace that can afford to buy the products capitalism produces is creating the economy.  Policies that erode the buying power of consumers simply means the government will end up supporting businesses through tax cuts, incentives and sometimes outright bailouts.  For example, in the States (and probably Canada), Walmart employees also collect benefits because they're so poorly paid, while Walmart owners get stinking rich.   Does this make sense to you?  If "freebies" are bad, they should be bad for corporations and businesses, as well as individuals, imo.

This isn't the fault of Conservatives specifically, imo.  Both sides have done the same - but Conservatives want to be known as "fiscally responsible", aka no freebies for individuals.   

I don't see that, look how many nations we have helped not only through capitalism, take Afghanistan for instance Canada built a mega project dam which now provides electricity to a good portion of the country, it has brought fresh water to towns and villages by the dozens, our soldiers raised funds and purchased fire trucks and ambulances for towns that desperately needed them out of their own pockets...we have contributed to natural disasters, other conflicts such as Mali, and though out history we have contributed a lot. and if it was not for capitalism that might not have happened...Not to mention our quality of life is owed to capitalism, you can't tell me a family who buys a home in Toronto for a million plus, is not well off.

I get it economics for a nation are two different things, But what we all need to grasp is there is limits to the amount of debt we can carry, even if it is at a low interest rate...and like you i'm no expert but the real experts have warned our government we are almost at our limit, our national credit rating has already dropped ... And i agree with you countries do go into debt by building stuff, putting people back to work... But the 400 Billion we have already spent we don't have a lot to show for it, 200 bil went into keeping everyone afloat, nobody is sure where the other 200 bil went, and for the most part i don't think the left really cares where it went.

I get it universal income looks really good to everyone that is in that pay bracket, but where does all these funds come from... they are talking about 80 to 90 bil a year.... GDP does not grow at that rate, so you get it by taxes, or cutting some other programs.... either way Walmart owners are going to continue to get rich, it is how our system works.... And our citizens can not compete with foreign labor... which has grown to bite us in the ass, now most of everything is made in china....how is that any good for our economy ... and in return we get cheap shitty goods... we have made them the power house and soon all we are really going to have is our resources, and Canadians don't want use them either.. no lumber, no oil and gas, 

I did Cretien pay down the debt...he cut everything he could... that included social programs...there was very little freebies then...and he was a liberal...So ity does not have to be just conservatives, that are thrifty, we all need to be when it is needed...And there are alot of social programs that are off limits and can't be cut, welfare, Medicare, old age pensions, but the other ones are they a need or a want or nice to have...

[Army Guy]

Well i guess it did not take long for some of the crazies' to come out of the woodwork, like this guy who apparently thinks when addressing parliament , naked is the next new thing... I get it the whole not wearing pants because nobody is going to see that... but when you totally strip off , someone is going to ask a few questions.... and then claimed it was an accident,

....but hey liberals have done a lot of stupid stuff, maybe it was talked alot at the convention, and got approved some how.... 

[cannuck]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:25 PM, dialamah said:

A value we have as Canadians is helping our neighbors; capitalism encourages us to leave our neighbors behind.

That is absolutely wrong.   BUT: I have to qualify my assertion as to what is "capitalism" vs. what we have now as a dominant force that I call "Casino Capitalism".  The ONLY way we can afford to help our neighbours in a sustainable manner is to create wealth from our endeavors.  THAT is what capitalism does and far, far better than any socialistic version of economics has EVER been able to provide.  You worship the kind of equality among neighbours that Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. have succeeded in achieving - so why don't you and the rest of the LL live there??????

Capitalism is the mechanism through which entrepreneurialism creates wealth.   Our problem is that we have allowed the purely speculative functions of managed markets dominate our economy - displacing entrepreneurial capitalists from business, replacing them with those who use OPM (pronounced "opium" = OTHER people's money and it is even more addictive than poppies) to fund a financial system that takes over productive industry to run it as a front to cover their speculative activities.

Our problem is we don't understand the difference between creating wealth and re-distributing wealth.  We also don't seem to understand that if you don't CREATE wealth, all you can do is sell of your assets to have some wealth to re-distribute - that is obviously (to anyone with a half of a brain) NOT sustainable.  Problem is: we don't seem to have anyone in government - either elected or hired - with even half a brain.

BTW: what we (not just Canada, but many others at this stage) are doing - just printing more money - is highly inflationary, and when you don't do much to create wealth (i.e. adding value to a resource or delivering services in support of those activities) all you do is devalue your currency.   What again is poorly understood is that the reaction to inflationary idiocy is often masked by the very "markets" that strip our economies of money from re-distribution simply because we have placed the ability to establish values in their hands - a HUGE conflict of interest.

And we are collectively foolish enough to think the snowboard instructor who can't even keep his lies and stories straight  is going to figure that out.

[blackbird]

Trudeau just claimed "scientists say we face an EXISTENTIAL threat".   This is an outrageously false statement and extreme fear mongering and alarmism.  I seriously doubt many scientists would make a statement like that which means human life will end (due to climate change).  Thousands of scientists do not even believe in man-made climate change.  They would be shocked that a leader of a developed western country would make a claim that our existence is threatened by climate change.  Climate has always changed and is simply a natural process as part of God's creation.   Tragic for Canadians that we have political leaders who put the radical climate change agenda above the well being of Canadians and are destroying the prosperity and jobs of Canadians and are not willing to study and read opposing points of view.  After the economy and well-being Canadians has been slashed (sacrifice they call it) and at some point they see that China, Russia, and much of the rest of the world is just carrying on as normal and the climate will not be controlled by mankind.

[Michael Hardner]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:33 PM, Army Guy said:

1. Are Canadians really that naïve to see through all the liberal smoking mirrors,
2. maybe Canada as a nation has just outlived its life expectancy and now the left wants a something new, something dripping with socialism... 
3. And this story did not come from the rebel, but rather the Financial Post, even they can smell the shit that are coming of the liberals....

1. It's "smoke and mirrors".
2. I guess you didn't realize that a pandemic has been going on for a year or so and people were desperate.   
3. I guess you didn't know the FP is a conservative paper ?

You are just this close to realizing you are out of step with the rest of Canada, and yet you call everyone else wrong.

Here's a clue: NOBODY loves the Liberal party.  Even in blood red Toronto they complain about him, but the alternatives aren't very good.  Let's see what O'Toole can do.  I have hope, but the conservative true believers seem to have given up on him.

[Shady]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:07 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

People like getting free money, and don't like the prospect of not getting any more free money.  The Liberals have been a good mommy and daddy giving out free cash to many Canadians.  The Liberals should have this election in the bag.

Exactly.  In some ways Canadians are pathetic.

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's "smoke and mirrors".
2. I guess you didn't realize that a pandemic has been going on for a year or so and people were desperate.   
3. I guess you didn't know the FP is a conservative paper ?

You are just this close to realizing you are out of step with the rest of Canada, and yet you call everyone else wrong.

Here's a clue: NOBODY loves the Liberal party.  Even in blood red Toronto they complain about him, but the alternatives aren't very good.  Let's see what O'Toole can do.  I have hope, but the conservative true believers seem to have given up on him.

1. Thank you Michael for the grammar lesson.

2. Ya i get it, there is a pandemic going on, I live in New Brunswick where we understand what is going on, not like Ontario or Quebec that don't get the concept of a few rules every province has put out for people to follow. The people are desperate you say, for what more government hand outs, and mean while they are blinded by the fact that sooner or later the government is going to have to stop the hand outs because there is no more treasure to do it... Thats when they will become desperate. 

3. So what are you saying Michael the FP is not a reliable source, the story ran in other media outlets as well. 

The only side I'm out of step with is the left, who regardless of what "you" say, they are still supporting Justin and his merry gang of lairs, according to the polls, which means a couple of things, they don't care as long as Justin keeps handing out HIS money, and making obscene promises for more social programs. Second they have not put a single thought into the real cost of so much debt, because they are either not smart enough, or don't care what the consequences are as long as they get their pockets full of Justins money. 

And using Toronto as a example for anything "except the hockey team" is laughable, the Covid capital of Canada, not smart enough to obey a few simple rules. hence why the are star struck by the red side ( dark side). It baffles me how anyone from the left can honestly say I'm putting my vote with Justins lying liberals, despite everything he has done or not done in the last 5 years...(unless it is lack of smarts, or just plain greed.)

they have been lead to believe that the Conservatives are poison and will take all of their hard earned freebies given out by Justin...( i will give credit where it is due, Justins propaganda team is on point, masters of brainwashing the weak...) the conservatives are light years behind the liberals in this department .

Who are just now starting to figure it out, or atleast O Toole is, they need a climate plan, they need to maintain some social programs to help people get there feet under them once again.. but they are far from challenging Justin, in anything except a boxing match..

I don't see O tool being the man to defeat Justin either, and the right is getting desperate, and someone will come out of all this mess, be it someone similar to mad max and they will pick up the pieces, and many are not going to like what that looks like...

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. Thank you Michael for the grammar lesson.

2. The people are desperate you say, for what more government hand outs,  

3. So what are you saying Michael the FP is not a reliable source, the story ran in other media outlets as well. 

4. The only side I'm out of step with is the left, who regardless of what "you" say, they are still supporting Justin and his merry gang of lairs, according to the polls, which means a couple of things, they don't care as long as Justin keeps handing out HIS money, and making obscene promises for more social programs. 

5. using Toronto as a example for anything "except the hockey team" is laughable, the Covid capital of Canada, not smart enough to obey a few simple rules. hence why the are star struck by the red side ( dark side). It baffles me how anyone from the left can honestly say I'm putting my vote with Justins lying liberals, despite everything he has done or not done in the last 5 years...(unless it is lack of smarts, or just plain greed.)

6. someone similar to mad max and they will pick up the pieces, and many are not going to like what that looks like...

 

 

 

1. Can I invoice you ?  It's more usage than grammar.  That one's free  

2. Yes

3. No, they are reliable.

4. Run-on sentence, and by your own admission "the left" seems to be most of Canada.  My advice is to stop whining and start devising a strategy to take the Liberals down based on commonality between conservative and Canadian values.

5. If you think Toronto is so full of idiots, then you're in trouble and all of Canada is.  Blaming an area of the country is pretty stupid, IMO.  For sure, it won't get you anywhere as Toronto isn't going away.

6. Pretty delusional.  Max was at 2% last time.  You are an idealist and zealot.  Maybe not a bad thing but you don't need politics, you need a strongman to take over... otherwise you will die of old age waiting for the change you expect.

[Army Guy]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Can I invoice you ?  It's more usage than grammar.  That one's free  

2. Yes

3. No, they are reliable.

4. Run-on sentence, and by your own admission "the left" seems to be most of Canada.  My advice is to stop whining and start devising a strategy to take the Liberals down based on commonality between conservative and Canadian values.

5. If you think Toronto is so full of idiots, then you're in trouble and all of Canada is.  Blaming an area of the country is pretty stupid, IMO.  For sure, it won't get you anywhere as Toronto isn't going away.

6. Pretty delusional.  Max was at 2% last time.  You are an idealist and zealot.  Maybe not a bad thing but you don't need politics, you need a strongman to take over... otherwise you will die of old age waiting for the change you expect.

1. I hope you have discounts, because it might get expensive. 

2. For how long do we need to give these handouts for, and please account for these other social programs that are or will be started, Universal income estimated at 85 bil a year, minimum wage raised to 15 a hour, pharma care, and others we have not heard of yet, as the liberals will have to compromise or go to the polls.

4. your right , most of the country is leaning left, but that does not mean it is the right direction to travel. Greece liked it's social programs as well. And here i thought i could shame the left into changing their minds, but you can't compete with greed or lack of morals.

As it stands right now, their is no strategy with O tool in charge, he lacks support from his own party, one that refuses to bend or compromise, compound that with he is an unknown to most Canadians, he believes the only way to gain votes is to cater to the centrist or those leaning left, regardless of who he alienates on the right.

 5. Come on Michael, i lived in Ontario for 12 years, Toronto has more than it's fair share of idiots, crazies, that is based on experience don't take it to personal. I used to think it was NB rednecks that were slow, not any more,  nothing complicated about following a few rules on covid, and yet for some reason Toronto doesn't get it... and while i may not be the smartest cookie in the jar, my area has no covid, and i am retired now, and have made a very comfortable life for myself and family, can't be that stupid...  

6. Am i everyone i talk to thats on the right say Max had several good ideas, and had he not stepped on his dick , for many issues, like little Gretta, or other off hand remarks he would have made more than 2 %, or the fact all the parties were running anti max campaigns.. 

I've been called worse, nothing wrong with being an idealist, and i think everyone should have one foot in the political world, to atleast understand why it is so f***up. and it is not me that needs a strong man , the country craves someone to stand up, and sacrifice a portion of their life to provide this country with leadership, the ability to make the tough decisions in a timliy basis with facts, figures, experience, and what is good for the nation, not for votes, or filling someone pockets.

Will i die before that happens i hope not, but this nation is due for a great leader, as much as Toronto deserves another cup. They are out there, just that nobody wants the job..

[Zeitgeist]

Our federal Liberals are cowards:

https://apple.news/AP8zR-KOXS-2JwCSvDbcNnw
 

[ron Young]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:44 PM, Shady said:

Exactly.  In some ways Canadians are pathetic.

Speak for yourself only please