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my take on covid 19 response


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14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Well you can deny whats happening if you want. The data in Canafa shows this failed approach as the numbers keep going up, up, up. 

People sense this failure and are now starting to blatantly ignore the rules. 

When I see crowds of young people in their twenties just walking along together without masks, blissfully unaware of covid it makes me happy. I think, thank god you kids are so stupid...

Ya, ignoring rules is always an intelligent strategy, guaranteed to succeed. 

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15 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Well you can deny whats happening if you want. The data in Canafa shows this failed approach as the numbers keep going up, up, up. 

People sense this failure and are now starting to blatantly ignore the rules. 

When I see crowds of young people in their twenties just walking along together without masks, blissfully unaware of covid it makes me happy. I think, thank god you kids are so stupid...

Let me see if I've got this right:

Nobody is claiming masks are a golden bullet, guaranteed to stop the spread, only a tool that helps.

You argue against the idea that masks are a golden bullet, guaranteed to stop the spread and point to numbers increasing among those least likely to be using masks (having been told for a year that they won't get very sick, if they get sick at all), as proof that masks don't work.

Do I have that right?

Edited by dialamah
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19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No.

Let's review:

17 hours ago, Aristides said:

They aren't a magic bullet, no one ever said they are. They are one tool to be used with other tools.

 

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Wear mask, problem solved, eh? Nope.

And here you are, arguing against a position not taken.

 

16 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The data in Canafa shows this failed approach as the numbers keep going up, up, up. 

When I see crowds of young people in their twenties just walking along together without masks, blissfully unaware of covid it makes me happy. I think, thank god you kids are so stupid...

And here you are, somehow thinking that examples of people not wearing masks proves that masks don't work.

Very strange.

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Let’s face it, covid is somewhat seasonal.  It’s not like people just all of a sudden stopped wearing masks in December and March, but totally wore masks in the summer and fall.   There’s absolutely no evidence of that.  And you need to wear a mask going anywhere in public.  That hasn’t changed at all.

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Has anyone even tried to understand why situation is so much worse in those "hot spots" before pushing them in front of the line and ahead of everyone else? Surely they have those medical offices and have they done anything useful, other than jumping and waving lockdowns, in over a year?

Is it workplaces, why effective policies and protocols to control spread were not developed and implemented in over a year?

Is it cultural practices, why there isn't effective communication and enforcement?

What else is it or was? Experts? Anybody there, hi!

This new shooting sparrows thing already smacks of desperation. And it shows us the template of how every serious problem and challenge will be addressed going forward. Not crossing fingers because it's a no-brainer: without a brain and working hands there can be only one outcome.

Edited by myata
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4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Very strange.

Im sure many things seem very strange. But rather than keeping notes on me, you would do better to challenge the government and their failed actions that have rendered this country a covid hotspot. No one can make sense of what your dear leader Mr. Trudeau has done to us.

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31 minutes ago, myata said:

 

Has anyone even tried to understand why

 

No one knows why. But judging by Mr Trudeaus grinning happy demeanour, he likes it. He wants Canada to keep under Covid 19 long as possible. It gives him leverage to remodel us as an example to other countries in the world- great reset. Like China’s Great Leap Forward. A communist catch-phrase if there ever was one.

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17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Im sure many things seem very strange. But rather than keeping notes on me, you would do better to challenge the government and their failed actions that have rendered this country a covid hotspot. No one can make sense of what your dear leader Mr. Trudeau has done to us.

Yes, I agree that Covid cases are increasing in Canada.  However, perhaps if dummies around the country weren't demanding their "constitutional" right to go to bars/restaurants/visit granny/vacation in hotspots/shop instore/not wear a mask, we'd be a bit better off.  

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24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, I agree that Covid cases are increasing in Canada.  However, perhaps if dummies around the country weren't demanding their "constitutional" right to go to bars/restaurants/visit granny/vacation in hotspots/shop instore/not wear a mask, we'd be a bit better off.  

It only works if we all cooperate. You cant get perfect agreement in almost anything in society, so these efforts to keep people under house arrest are going to fail. Unless of course we start enforcing it with more punitive measures.

Mr. Trudeau does admire basic dictatorships, so what's he waiting for?

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

No one knows why. But judging by Mr Trudeaus grinning happy demeanour, he likes it. He wants Canada to keep under Covid 19 long as possible. It gives him leverage to remodel us as an example to other countries in the world- great reset. Like China’s Great Leap Forward. A communist catch-phrase if there ever was one.

In that case we're sure on to something. The first vaccinations (December) will start expiring in June. The thing has very good potential of going for another cycle. And then we'll see. Don't have to answer that now, quoting.

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On 4/9/2021 at 5:36 PM, dialamah said:

Yes, I agree that Covid cases are increasing in Canada.  However, perhaps if dummies around the country weren't demanding their "constitutional" right to go to bars/restaurants/visit granny/vacation in hotspots/shop instore/not wear a mask, we'd be a bit better off.  

In the military when a unit fails to complete it's objective, it is the Chain of commands fault, no one else....... and as much as I'd like to blame all of this on justin .... the provincial premiers share in all the faults.  you can blame the young, all we want, but the government has failed to educate them so they fully understand the dangers, and the consequences of not complying or it has failed to force them to be engaged in all the policies... There has been one misstep after another in this pandemic...and instead of clapping for those in charge some one should be pointing out all the mistakes, so we can learn form them, this pandemic is not going away anytime soon...

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A visual illustration of bureaucratic response to the reality. The current recommendation from the municipal officer here is to wear mask outdoors "as much as possible". This morning on a short walk to a nearby store I decided to run an impromtu statistical experiment and counted those who complied. The final count came to 53 : 1 (the latter being the one individual who complied),  children and the author excluded.

Cool, no? How does it feel to work busy-busy with statements and orders that barely anybody pays any attention to? And what is the point of the policy, declarations and statements? Or explaining it to the people and bringing them on board? Can both be true at the same time?

But no worries! It will churn paper notices and recommendations, orders and policies out happily and cheerfully as long as the supply of $20K monthly is coming, with generous benefits and pension plans. And why bother with such minor things as the populace and the results, as long as it keeps coming? Even the reality itself.

P.S. and of course the latest episode with the vaccines. Look there may be some blood clots here, shouldn't we take a look? (muzak) "all vaccines approved by us are 100% safe oops we did it again". Seriously, if it wasn't the government one would have to think the people are accomplished ... (complete with appropriate term). But why wouldn't it work, as long as the paycheck with the pension plan keeps rolling in with no visible association to the results?

Edited by myata
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Shutting down again in Ontario, Quebec, BC, and Alberta is a necessary evil that is required because we simply haven't had enough infections or vaccinations so far to substantially lower the positivity rate. At least in Ontario the school closures incorporate the April break.  However, warm weather and pandemic fatigue mean that government right now has limited ability to make people stay home and follow restrictions.  I think we have to keep people, students included, at home in the hotspots for three more weeks after the April break, because there will be community spread over the break.  That means the lockdown ends a month from now.  It's likely that everyone who wants a vaccination in the hotspots who is over 40, a frontline worker, or in the education field, can be vaccinated by the end of that month. 

In Ontario, for example, approximately 100,000 are being vaccinated a day over the next month.  That's 3 million people.  There are 300,000 education workers, for example. It means that in a month most middle-aged people, frontline workers, and education workers will feel more secure about working on-site.  It also means that we can expand these policies to the non-Covid hotspots at that point, perhaps even move to universal vaccination of all adults across the province, depending on vaccine uptake by citizens and the availability of vaccines.

The point is that after a month of lockdown we should see the case rate drop and continue to drop.  Patios and personal care will reopen in May.  I think that by late may indoor mask wearing and indoor capacity limits may be the only remaining restrictions, and the capacity limits won't last.  Indoor masks might stick around for awhile because children's vaccinations could take a while.

Basically we have to buckle down for the next month.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

, perhaps even move to universal vaccination of all adults across the province, depending on ...

Hear, hear! While the US just south HAS offered it to everybody (as of April 19th, next week), with 20 times the population. Oh the splendeurs et generosite of eternal bureaucracy unconstrained by any notions of reality! What can be added here, curtains please.

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.... swimming in that pretty-rosy bureaucratic dream possibly (probably?) blissfully unaware that the immunity from the vaccines may last up to 8 months. What? Oh no really it was known last year already? and we had this beautiful plan all the way to September (2023), this is still oh so new but see we're trying our best perhaps even and depending on.

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3 hours ago, myata said:

.... swimming in that pretty-rosy bureaucratic dream possibly (probably?) blissfully unaware that the immunity from the vaccines may last up to 8 months. What? Oh no really it was known last year already? and we had this beautiful plan all the way to September (2023), this is still oh so new but see we're trying our best perhaps even and depending on.

Canadians won't accept watching Texas then California lift all restrictions and resume normal life yet put up with endless restrictions in Canada.  All restrictions are being lifted in California by mid-June.

Many people don't understand that it doesn't matter whether the vaccine's full immunity only lasts 8 months or even 6 months.  The point of the vaccines is to prevent you from being hospitalized and dying from Covid-19.  The vaccines will ensure that.  We may need annual boosters like flu shots.  Many will bother to get the boosters and many won't.  Most of those who don't will probably survive a bout of C-19 as they would a typical cold or flu, as long as they've had the first vaccine.

 I realize some will wish to dramatize the risks of a post-vaccine reality, but most people won't accept unnecessary restrictions, I hope.  However, if restrictions persist after herd immunity, then yes, something much more sinister and manipulative is afoot.  I don't think that will happen, but my trust of authorities isn't the highest.  

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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

However, if restrictions persist after herd immunity, then yes, something much more sinister and manipulative is afoot.

Herd immunity may not be achievable. The virus can mutate. Some are able to do that faster than scientists can dream up another of noxious potion to kill it. Therefore, no need for the authorititties to expose themselves.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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52 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Herd immunity may not be achievable. The virus can mutate. Some are able to do that faster than scientists can dream up another of noxious potion to kill it. Therefore, no need for the authoritities to expose themselves.

 

Oh well.  We will reach an acceptable risk level.  The vaccines are effective against the known variants.  Except in extremely rare cases, a vaccinated person is safe from death by C-19.  That's really all we need to know.  If some choose not to get vaccinated, the rest of society shouldn't and won't curtail their freedoms to protect those people.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians won't accept ...

Many people don't understand ...

You nailed it just here. Don't understand a thing but boldly go and claim it on behalf of Canadians (who wouldn't seem to care in any case). No, one in a lifetime pandemics couldn't wake it. Is there anything, a word or event that could? How would we know.

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CBC today talks about "pandemic fatigue". Sure, in the world of top-down, we always know best it can be a correct or even the only possible interpretation. In this, real world though, not necessarily so because there are other, different possibilities. In this world, people could just recall what happened, see the results and interpret them in their own minds that they were provided with by the evolution. How effective measures were, and are? How many top-down statements were and are being confirmed in reality? How much top bureaucrats were and are being paid for delivering words in place or real and measurable results?

So which one it is, the fatigue, or inept and clueless? And how would we know it?

Edited by myata
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Another wave of Covid intimidation and fear hitting the airwaves and social networks and can be felt almost physically. Talking about curfews and enforcement in the parks again, without a shred of evidence of the risk of transmission in a well-spaced outdoor environment. I turn it off instantly.

But we're given that thing, the brain by the evolution, and it wants so see and make sense. And here's an interesting observation. Everybody remembers how last summer there was a long lull, cases dropped down to single digits? Of course it was the result of genial policies like closing parks so that people stay longer in closed indoor spaces but maybe, can't rule it out yet (unfortunately), just a seasonal thing. Like in a cycle, ups and downs.

Now as we are approaching the same season again, is it just a coincidence that the panic and Covid activity at all levels are hitting an all time crescendo? People go outdoors, it's that season and where is the evidence of significant risk of infection? Hospital admissions are rising, it's the second year of an epidemics and someone was and is being paid big (taxpayer) dollars to a) run the system efficiently when it's needed by the society and b) to develop and implement effective measures of mitigation where the infections are actually happen. Is this mandate the same as pumping up the media scare and blanket population-wide measures of unknown effectiveness?

But imagine if it was the former, and come summer the last year's scenario is realized. Cases dwindle down, all on their own and without a wise word and commanding act from the authority. What would it tell us about the effectiveness of the blanket measures, and their intent? The usefulness of policies and orders, and millions? or billions? invested in them, in place of efficient running and effective targeted mitigation.

We only have a few months left to see it with our own eyes. And make rational and logical conclusions. And I will make them based on what I see with my eyes, not hear.

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