TRUMP vs MCCAIN Being Brought Up Again By The DESPERADOS!

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, Shady said:

Now not only Bolton has debunked it, but the U.S. ambassador to France, who was also there says it never happened.  So 2 named sources have now completed debunked this ridiculous story.

 I doubt the US Ambassador to France can count as an inside source.  Given his silence, John Kelly is a prime suspect.

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1. The people who support Trump are simply the worst examples of humanity.   

2. They are as morally culpable of the corruption of Trump and his hangers on as were Hitler's supporters in the gassing of Jews. 
 

1. I think that's too far, but they are a throwback to politics as it happened in the late 19th century.  It was 100% about throwing mud and winning elections.  There was no idea of honourable interchange with the other side.   You could openly lie about an opponent or make fun of his family (or in this case that he was a POW) and not suffer consequences.

2. Hyperbole - nope, can't accept that.  You have to believe that groupthink would cease if things went that far.

 

If you start believing every opponent is inhumane, then you are moving away from politics and towards war.  This is the real fight emerging now - the fight for peace.  I read something from someone that said protesting in favour of Trump was supporting violence, therefore attacking a peaceful Trump protester is self-defence.  This is essentially what you are saying, D. 

[betsy]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 I doubt the US Ambassador to France can count as an inside source.  Given his silence, John Kelly is a prime suspect.

Bolton is a reliable source given that he's not a Trump supporter!  

Given the contentious history between him and Trump - why would he lie about it, if not for simply fairness sake?   Why would he stick out his neck to defend Trump?

Edited September 8, 2020 by betsy

[dialamah]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I think that's too far, but they are a throwback to politics as it happened in the late 19th century.  It was 100% about throwing mud and winning elections.  There was no idea of honourable interchange with the other side.   You could openly lie about an opponent or make fun of his family (or in this case that he was a POW) and not suffer consequences.

2. Hyperbole - nope, can't accept that.  You have to believe that groupthink would cease if things went that far.

 

If you start believing every opponent is inhumane, then you are moving away from politics and towards war.  This is the real fight emerging now - the fight for peace. 

3. I read something from someone that said protesting in favour of Trump was supporting violence, therefore attacking a peaceful Trump protester is self-defence.  This is essentially what you are saying, D. 

1.  Perhaps it is a throwback to 19th century, but the claim is is that we've progressed past that kind of behavior.  And that kind of behavior is the worst examples - whether its slinging mud at politicians, a minority group within your society, or your next door neighbor.  Taken far enough, it becomes war.

2.  I don't think it is hyperbole - the people in power, those who supported Hitler, knew what he was doing.  Do you think it's any different with Trump?  While I agree that most people in Germany initially had no idea where it was leading, at some point they would have clued in - but by then, it was too late and Hitler's active and dedicated supporters had too much power.  We have that example in recent history, and its incumbent on voters in democracies to practice honesty even when politicians do not.  In that sense, Trump supporters fail.  They make extreme partisanship a virtue and support corruption at the highest levels.  What else did the salute and "Heil Hitler" indicate, but "my leader, right or wrong."  Trump supporters still have the opportunity to demonstrate that "my leader,  right or wrong" is not a credible or healthy political philosophy.  They're failing.

3.  I agree that's an extreme statement and should be condemned; physically attacking people for what they believe is wrong.  Even if it's a Trump supporter.  

Edited September 8, 2020 by dialamah

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  Perhaps it is a throwback to 19th century, but the claim is is that we've progressed past that kind of behavior.  And that kind of behavior is the worst examples - whether its slinging mud at politicians, a minority group within your society, or your next door neighbor.  Taken far enough, it becomes war.

2.  I don't think it is hyperbole - the people in power, those who supported Hitler, knew what he was doing.  Do you think it's any different with Trump?   

3.  I agree that's an extreme statement and should be condemned; physically attacking people for what they believe is wrong.  Even if it's a Trump supporter.  

1. Ok, but I commented on how we - you and I - can avoid war.  Progress happens, but cycles do too.  Certain things don't ever go away.
2. Your assertion is, essentially, that anyone who would look the other way for Trump's behaviour would do so for genocide or maybe just outright removal of rights for minority religions.  IMO that is a stretch at the least.
3. Ok but we bombed Dresden so... your position is unclear given your other statements.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

The author is already backtracking.  Conceding that the event was actually cancelled due to weather by the military, not because Trump didn’t want to go.  I feel sorry for anyone that falls for this nonsense and gets manipulated by the mainstream media this way.

It's endless.

The MSM perpetuate a huge lie, get everyone really pissed off, it eventually gets debunked, and they shrug it off and jump onto the next bandwagon.

The leftist idiot sycophant horde won't even bat an eye about the fact that they were lied to, and that they were tricked into walking around perpetuating CNN's lies. 

 

Trump: "We're being wiretapped."

MSM & OBAMA: "HAHAHAHA TRUMP IS A HUGE LIAR! HE'S DERANGED!. HE'S MENTALLY UNFIT TO BE PRESIDENT!!!! WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!"

FBI/DOJ: "The Trump campaign was spied on, Obama knew."

MSM & OBAMA: "Ummmmmm, hey look over there at all the peaceful protests! Only 20 or so people have been killed and thousands of people have been assaulted. Businesses have been burned to the ground and looted. But it's mostly peaceful."

Pollsters: "The Dems' support for the RIOTS is hurting Biden in the polls."

MSM & OBAMA: "THESE ARE RIOOOOOOOTS! IT'S TRUMP'S FAULT! WE NEVER HAD ANY RIOTS IN 2014, 2015 and 2016! Trump actually started these riots somehow! He tricked us into supporting the rioting with his orange devilry!"

And the leftist idiots just keep gobbling up what CNN poops out. 

[WestCanMan]

49 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't think it is hyperbole - the people in power, those who supported Hitler, knew what he was doing.  Do you think it's any different with Trump? 

What a crock of absolute crap.

Who are the idiots that got sucked into Russian collusion? And then Dr Ford was nearly raped. And then "Trump's middle east policy is incomprehensible". And then "Rayshard was just running away". Etc, etc, etc. The same people who get sucked in every time, on every issue over the past 7 years.

"The van terrorist attack is proof that we need to ban guns" lol. The lies that you hear don't even have to make any sense. They can just be plainly idiotic and you'll all line up to perpetuate them. Or to shriek them in public even. 

The problem isn't that Trump is doing things that his voters don't see. The problem is that leftists are so god-damned stupid that they believe every lie that they hear, and then when they find out that they were lied to 20x in a row, they CHOOSE to believe the 21st lie, even when it's idiotic, because they are incapable of independent thought.

The leftists are the ones with the fascist mob, going around and telling people what they can and can't say, terrorizing neighbourhoods, attacking & killing people, and it's all based on lies.

"Black people are being hunted down by cops!!!!!!" Lmao. More black people die from lightning strikes than bad police shootings. 

For you to be party to supporting that type of bigoted, lawless behaviour is a perfect example of being the blind NAZI supporter v 2.0. You're that exact type of person.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

 I doubt the US Ambassador to France can count as an inside source.  Given his silence, John Kelly is a prime suspect.

John Kelly has no reason to be silent.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Shady said:

John Kelly has no reason to be silent.

There is no way to say what peoples' motives are for sure.  

[Shady]

Now even a Jennifer Griffin is backtracking.  She now says Trump called the generals losers and babies.  So not dead soldiers etc.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jennifer-griffin-doubles-down-on-trump-reporting-claims-mnuchin-heard-him-call-generals-losers-babies/

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

There is no way to say what peoples' motives are for sure.  

He doesn’t work for Trump anymore.  There is no motive for him to be silent.  Especially when he’s publicly criticized Trump in regards to other things.  This is beginning to take on religious status.  Believers vs non-believers.  If you want to believe this story, that’s fine.  I understand that it confirms an already preconceived notion of Trump.  But just don’t insist that it actually happened.

[Michael Hardner]

Here's the Politfact check on Trump - 

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/04/donald-trump/yes-donald-trump-did-call-john-mccain-loser/

 

Quote

Trump: "I don't like losers."

Amid audience laughter, the moderator, Republican pollster Frank Luntz, then interjected, "But he's a war hero!" Trump responded, "He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured."

Later that day, Trump retweeted, with seeming approval, a web post headlined "Donald Trump: John McCain Is ‘A Loser,’" that recapped his exchange at the summit.

Anyway...

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, but I commented on how we - you and I - can avoid war.  Progress happens, but cycles do too.  Certain things don't ever go away.
2. Your assertion is, essentially, that anyone who would look the other way for Trump's behaviour would do so for genocide or maybe just outright removal of rights for minority religions.  IMO that is a stretch at the least.
3. Ok but we bombed Dresden so... your position is unclear given your other statements.

1.  I'm not aware of any war between you and I, so I'm a little unclear about what you mean here.   If you are referring to my attitude toward Trump supporters, I don't feel I'm at war with them either.  But perhaps I'm just not inderstanding what you're point is. 

2.  Some would.  Please remember that Hitler didn't get elected Tuesday and have camps and ovens up and running the next month; it took him  years to get to the point that there was enough support within his own base, and enough disinterest, confusion or fear among the rest of the population that he could round up Jews for the 'final solution'.  If you'd asked Germans in 1928 if they'd sit back and say almost nothing about gassing people by the millions, would they have said "sure"?  Unlikely.  But it happened.  Hitler attained the power of a dictator in 1933, and it took 7 more years of propaganda to begin to effect the elimination of Jews.  I don't know what Trump's end game is, or even if he has one in the same way Hitler did.  I think that he does give a face and voice to people who'd pursue some of the same things Hitler did, and the more his supporters accept and support his lies and corruption, the stronger those people become.  

3.  Again  I miss your point, sorry.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by dialamah

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Shady said:

1.There is no motive for him to be silent.     
2. Believers vs non-believers.   

1. There is no way to say what peoples' motives are for sure.  
2. The real 'true believers' are Trump followers.

I will concur that I am not rational when it comes to this vile vile man, though.  I won't ever deny having TDS  

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, dialamah said:

1.   I don't feel I'm at war with them either.   

2.  Some would.   

3.  Again  I miss your point, sorry.

 

1. We can avoid war with others... 

2. I stand by my assertion that it's too much of a stretch.

3. We bombed civilians because they were seen as complicit in crimes that they were not aware of.  I think that's the comparison you are making.

Bringing it back to the thread topic - I am well aware of my derangement when it comes to this political icon and I try to reduce my engagement on this topic for that reason.  My message to his cult followers on this thread is to stop drinking the Kool Aid.  But my message to his opponents is to de-escalate.  Trump disparaged McCain because he is a scum bag.  People who still love him because he enrages liberals are using politics as entertainment at best.  But those who think he's the worst (he is) need to at least try to stay grounded.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

  My message to his cult followers on this thread is to stop drinking the Kool Aid. 

 

A meaningless message, as Trump and his presidency are a symptom of much larger political and cultural issues in the United States, and parroted back in Canada in the usual way.

John McCain could not achieve the presidency despite decades of military and public service, but Trump did it on his first attempt without either.

...it takes far more than Kool-Aid®

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I will concur that I am not rational when it comes to this vile vile man, though.  I won't ever deny having TDS  

Being irrational, you fan the flames for people like Dialama to become even more misled about fake news. As we see here now. She is the one who fell for it, not me. Backfire, and you have to backtrack because you see the damage you are creating.

Is there a point to these provocative (but poorly written...) posts you are making lately?

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. We can avoid war with others... 

2. I stand by my assertion that it's too much of a stretch.

3. We bombed civilians because they were seen as complicit in crimes that they were not aware of.  I think that's the comparison you are making.

4.  Bringing it back to the thread topic - I am well aware of my derangement when it comes to this political icon and I try to reduce my engagement on this topic for that reason.  My message to his cult followers on this thread is to stop drinking the Kool Aid.  But my message to his opponents is to de-escalate.  Trump disparaged McCain because he is a scum bag.  People who still love him because he enrages liberals are using politics as entertainment at best.  But those who think he's the worst (he is) need to at least try to stay grounded.

1.  That's the hope.  

2.  We can agree to disagree, and hope that my perdpective is wrong. 

3.  I'm not suggesting that we "bomb" republucans or conservatives.  I'm saying that the Hitlers of the world come to power because people support their lies and corruption, and only once the end-game is revealed do they suddenly declare themselves fooled, whether they were or not.

4.  The kool-aid drinkers won't listen because Trump hasn't crossed a line they consider unethical or immoral enough.  Fraud, nepotism, conflict-of-interest, sexual harassment, sexual asssult, treasonous behavior and rumors of pedophilia - all fine, if he makes Liberals cry.  In the meantime, other world leaders who make a single misstep are vilified.

You may think its worthwhile to treat the kool-aid drinkers with kid gloves, but I think they're better either ignored or mocked.  Although  really, the mocking is for me, not them; its as useless as presenting actual information.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

4.  The kool-aid drinkers won't listen because Trump hasn't crossed a line they consider unethical or immoral enough.  Fraud, nepotism, conflict-of-interest, sexual harassment, sexual asssult, treasonous behavior and rumors of pedophilia - all fine, if he makes Liberals cry.  In the meantime, other world leaders who make a single misstep are vilified.

 

All fine for the "liberals" too....when it was Bill Clinton.

[scribblet]

On 9/7/2020 at 8:48 AM, betsy said:

Whoa.....whoa...whoa.  

Folks......read my lips:    I'm not saying he didn't say it.

What they're not telling you is.............................

I don't know if he did or not, but so far it's all anonymous sources, and yeah, they confirmed it was 4 anonymous sources.    on a visit to France a few years ago.   I  I seem to remember a flap at the time about him not wanting to go in the rain and subsequent records showed that it was indeed bad weather that prevented the trip.   If he said something so egregious why wouldn't they have said something at the time, so coming out now really feels like a slime job.   

https://dailycaller.com/2020/09/06/never-happened-sources-close-to-trump-rally-defense-atlantic-story/

[dialamah]

49 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

All fine for the "liberals" too....when it was Bill Clinton.

I was too young to care about Bill Clinton, or Trudeau Sr, or Reagan, or any of those old fossils you guys like to bring up as if they mattered.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I was too young to care about Bill Clinton, or Trudeau Sr, or Reagan, or any of those old fossils you guys like to bring up as if they mattered.

 

It's not about you...it is about political reality whether you were old enough or not.

Bill Clinton helped to make a President Trump possible.

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I was too young to care about Bill Clinton, or Trudeau Sr, or Reagan, or any of those old fossils you guys like to bring up as if they mattered.

 

Being born in 2000 n' all....

[dialamah]

26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Bill Clinton helped to make a President Trump possible.

I'm sure he did.  Does that mean it's ok now to accept Trump's lies and corruption?  

And you're right in that I might be naive in thinking Trump is the worst US president, and among the worst in the Western world, that's a definite possibility given how recently I've even taken an interest.  Perhaps I'm naive in thinking people should strive for better, instead of supporting and defending extreme corruption.  Even the nepotism if Trump appointing family members should have been condemned, imo - and would have been if it had been Trudeau appointing his brother and mother to government jobs.  

Its all just so stupid, really.  And as my college instructor once said to me - I don't suffer fools gladly, and as far as I'm concerned, Trump supporters are fools.  Not Republicans or Conservatives, just Trump supporters.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I'm sure he did.  Does that mean it's ok now to accept Trump's lies and corruption? 

 

No, it means that reality doesn't care what we think is OK.    The rules of the game did not change just because Trump won.

 

Quote

Its all just so stupid, really.  And as my college instructor once said to me - I don't suffer fools gladly, and as far as I'm concerned, Trump supporters are fools.  Not Republicans or Conservatives, just Trump supporters.

 

It is their constitutional right to be "fools".    This is what "democracy looks like".