What's wrong with this arrest?

[WestCanMan]

58 minutes ago, Boges said:

And a Tazer isn't a lethal weapon. He was running away, and he had no where to go. 

A taser IS a lethal weapon. For a while they tried to call it a non-lethal weapon but people keep dying from it, so it's now called a 'less lethal' weapon. 

The law in Georgia: https://www.abtlaw.com/criminal-defense/weapon-crimes/stun-gun-laws/

Quote

The “projectile” type stun gun is considered a firearm and is regulated by the same laws that govern the use of other types of weapons.

So it wasn't just a cute, cuddly taser that he shot at the officer's head, it was a firearm, in the eyes of the law. 

Quote

The DA has charged him with murder and he's been fired. So he must have done something wrong in the eyes of the law. 

The DA claims Brooks was kicked. 

https://fox6now.com/2020/06/18/prosecutor-officer-kicked-rayshard-brooks-after-shooting/

IDGAF what the DA said. The DA is a known liar - I watched him say that Brooks was "slighty intoxicated" (Brooks was passed out drunk and blew .108 = pissed) and that's just alcohol. If he had other drugs in his system he could be completely wasted. They needed him to come in for a blood test. He flipped out. The DA also described him as jovial and polite. Polite isn't the same as 'wresteled cops, punched them in the face, stole a taser, shot it at cops. The DA is a lying ftard and the only person to date that has made the kicking claim. Again, I'll need to see video of a kick before it stands here. Right now it's just a rumour, because the DA's word does not stand as a record of events when we know that he's lying about more than one other thing. That dick also said that the cops stood on his shoulders. How does one even do that?

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Well, according to the prosecutor it looks like the cop is phucked. But we must wait and see as to what his partner says in the trial. If his partner wants to protect his ass from being nailed, then he may just turn on his partner, and try to make the other cop look bad so he can look good to cover his ass. The defense will get the truth out of him if he lies at all. Just saying. 

We'll see. I doubt that he talks. He's so fucked if he throws his partner under the bus and he's perceived to be lying. 

[WestCanMan]

59 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

We were talking about Brooks not the chief. A man shot in the back while running from the police.

I'd call that an execution.

I'd call that a lie. You know what happened - Brooks shot a taser at the cop. You can clearly see sparks come out in the video.

You're intentionally mischaracterizing this serious issue because CTV is doing that. FYI, just because CTV is lying doesn't make it right for you to do it iceni. You're a liar now. That's not good. 

[taxme]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We'll see. I doubt that he talks. He's so fucked if he throws his partner under the bus and he's perceived to be lying. 

I saw the cops defense lawyer being interviewed by Tucker Carlson on FOX News last night. The lawyer looked like he might have a good case to get the cop free from all charges. If his partner is found out by his other cop brothers as a liar than his ass is in trouble. He will never be trusted by any of the other cops again. Aw well. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Wow, you really said that. 

A fraction of Canada's "culture" really revolves around anything British. 

I'm not sure you define culture the way others might. I don't define culture as what music you listen to or what art you look at. I define it as the values of a people, and that, in Canada, is the culmination of generations of belief in certain Christian ethics, and British values and traditions of behavior, government, democracy and justice. Our parliamentary system itself is part of our culture which revolves around its British origins.

[taxme]

15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'd call that a lie. You know what happened - Brooks shot a taser at the cop. You can clearly see sparks come out in the video.

You're intentionally mischaracterizing this serious issue because CTV is doing that. FYI, just because CTV is lying doesn't make it right for you to do it iceni. You're a liar now. That's not good. 

No one today should ever believe or trust the Canadian or the American leftist liberal lying MSM ever again. They will lie or put forward disinformation to suit their own leftist liberal narrative agenda. The lying MSM and our dear comrade leaders now both appear to be working together to keep us all uninformed with just about everything, and they should be considered nothing more than a bunch of thieves, cheats and liars. I have never seen so much lying and false reporting in the media and coming from our so called political leaders like I am seeing today.

Just my personal opinion of course. Works for me. 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Except the militarization of the police hasn't been causally correlated with violent crime or homicide.  Violent crime in Canada has dropped dramatically over the last 40-50 years, but our urban police forces are increasingly equipped like small armies. 

There is virtually no difference in the armament of a given officer on the street dealing with the public. One pistol. They might have a rifle in the car for just in case, but it's still just one cop and one pistol in virtually all situations.

In terms of needed changes in police, their equipment is a pretty minor element. What's needed is to change the military mindset, the training which says that at any moment someone is likely to try to kill them so they have to be ready. In addition, the attitude trained into them that they have to take charge immediately of every situation, that they should use 'command voice' to intimidate people get them to accept orders, and that anyone who refuses or who yells back has to be taken down before they decide to attack the officer physically. They need, in other words, to treat people more like British police do, even if that means putting up with angry citizens shouting at them, and speaking calmly rather than yelling back and threatening.

They also should be required to get a black belt in the martial arts, like the Japanese. There are a lot of police shootings which would not have to take place if police had training in disarming armed people. A physically fit man with a black belt in Judo or Jiu Jitsu should not have to, as an example, shoot a pudgy, middle aged woman to death because she's advancing on him with a pair of scissors. Or for that matter, a petite, 100lb woman advancing on him with a small knife. The shooting of that Brooks guy would not have happened if those two cops were black belts.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Argus

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Except the militarization of the police hasn't been causally correlated with violent crime or homicide.  Violent crime in Canada has dropped dramatically over the last 40-50 years, but our urban police forces are increasingly equipped like small armies.  

They're equipped like small armies because the police have to go where they're needed, when they're needed, and they deserve to have the proper equipment to keep them safe.

It's not unheard of for there to be gang violence in Canada and the US. We had HAs vs Rock Machine in Que. They have lots of gang clashes down in the US. Terrorist attacks are not that infrequent in either country. A bank was robbed in the US and the robbers had kevlar body armour and helmets - small arms fire didn't hurt them. 

If your daughter is chilling at a cafe in Toronto and some crazy shit goes down do you want the police to decide that they can't respond? Should they go in even if they know they're doomed? 

[Moonbox]

Argus I agree with pretty much everything you said there.  

I'm a naive white guy living in a sleepy town of 130,000 west of Toronto and I have always admired the police here.  I once watched a tweaking meth-head run around the downtown core (Guelph loves its meth) screaming at the police, then climb a 5 foot wall and throw his boots at officers and scream at them for about 20 minutes.  4 of them calmly surrounded him, let him have his tantrum and waited for him to come down before arresting him.  Every time he put his hands in his pockets he could have been grabbing a shuriken, but as you say, they didn't automatically assume he was going to try to kill them. 

That's the issue here.  The training and mentality is so paranoid and confrontational in a lot of cases that bad stuff is bound to happen.  The mentality that citizens are subservient to the police and instantly need to obey and grovel is wrong.  That's not to say you need to be confrontational with the police, but in the GTA and Peel region I've encountered hot head bro-cops that are out and looking for trouble where it doesn't exist on numerous occasions.  

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

There is virtually no difference in the armament of a given officer on the street dealing with the public. One pistol. They might have a rifle in the car for just in case, but it's still just one cop and one pistol in virtually all situations.

In terms of needed changes in police, their equipment is a pretty minor element. What's needed is to change the military mindset, the training which says that at any moment someone is likely to try to kill them so they have to be ready. In addition, the attitude trained into them that they have to take charge immediately of every situation, that they should use 'command voice' to intimidate people get them to accept orders, and that anyone who refuses or who yells back has to be taken down before they decide to attack the officer physically. They need, in other words, to treat people more like British police do, even if that means putting up with angry citizens shouting at them, and speaking calmly rather than yelling back and threatening.

They also should be required to get a black belt in the martial arts, like the Japanese. There are a lot of police shootings which would not have to take place if police had training in disarming armed people. A physically fit man with a black belt in Judo or Jiu Jitsu should not have to, as an example, shoot a pudgy, middle aged woman to death because she's advancing on him with a pair of scissors. Or for that matter, a petite, 100lb woman advancing on him with a small knife. The shooting of that Brooks guy would not have happened if those two cops were black belts.

Police do get HTH combat training. Members of our military do too.

IMO the main problems there were 1) the one idiot cop who just sat there and threatened with his taser over and over finally got pulled down on top of his partner, and Brooks got away. 2) those cops had an audience and they were too shit-scared to do anything violent-looking during the George Floyd wars. Just a few days ago we had a cop throw one punch at chief drunkass when they were involved in an altercation and it's national news. If one of those officers punched Brooks they'd be no less popular in the media. 

I think the original cop on the scene was just a rookie.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by WestCanMan

[Boges]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm not sure you define culture the way others might. I don't define culture as what music you listen to or what art you look at. I define it as the values of a people, and that, in Canada, is the culmination of generations of belief in certain Christian ethics, and British values and traditions of behavior, government, democracy and justice. Our parliamentary system itself is part of our culture which revolves around its British origins.

Even so, it's not really a white thing as other Constitutional Monarchies follow the same "values" even thought there racial makeup is much different. 

The GTA is so multicultural that being around stereotypical Canadians is actually more jarring than being around most ethnic minorities. 

[DogOnPorch]

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

Even so, it's not really a white thing as other Constitutional Monarchies follow the same "values" even thought there racial makeup is much different. 

The GTA is so multicultural that being around stereotypical Canadians is actually more jarring than being around most ethnic minorities. 

 

What's ethnic? Who's a minority...and who is not? Are Kashube Poles 'ethnic minorities'? 

 

[Army Guy]

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Except the militarization of the police hasn't been causally correlated with violent crime or homicide.  Violent crime in Canada has dropped dramatically over the last 40-50 years, but our urban police forces are increasingly equipped like small armies.  

The idea that folks are proposing we abolish or get rid of police is a joke though.  Nobody is proposing that and if we're seeing a bunch quit - then fine.  See ya.  The police unions in North America have long needed to be taken down a peg and along with some of the good folks we lose are hopefully a lot of the bad apples as well.  There aren't just a few of them either.  The fact that they're so bad at policing their own pretty much proves that.  The way they close ranks and shut out investigators is alarming. 

 

Come on, how many media stories have we read that involve gangs or crime organizations that have used automatic wpns, serious sniper wpns, armor piercing bullets....these stories are pretty common in the bigger Cities….and the police have to adapt, shit just recently NB RCMP only had shotguns for long arms....they were outgunned and outclassed by the Moncton shooter and the NS shooter....and with that type of firepower you need an armored veh to get police officer close to respond do you see a trend here...they problem is much worse in the states, but it happens here as well...

the bad cops are not going to quit....think about that for a minute, they don't care what is being said about them ..  .it's the good cops that are quitting out of protest...shit they have been abandoned by the people they serve, and all forms of government , hung out to dry... and if they don't stop this bleed out we as in the people are going to have issues , you think new rookie cops are going to be better....

Just the RCMP have answered 2.8 million calls with 99.9 % of that number being good policing...how can you say there are a lot of bad cops....every organization your going to have wingnuts....what we need to do is weed them out, and some how make some changes to perfect our policing and it's practices....not defund them, or what ever the whacky left is mumbling about. any change is going to take more funding....not less. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-use-of-force-data-1.5615871

[WestCanMan]

Atlanta's (two-faced or racist?) DA Paul Howard was just sermonizing about how a taser is a deadly weapon two weeks ago. 

DA Howard charged an officer with aggravated assault just for pointing a taser at a black woman because it's a deadly weapon, but when a black man shoots a taser at a police officer it's not a deadly weapon. They're just supposed to take it.

 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

being around stereotypical Canadians is actually more jarring than being around most ethnic minorities. 

What are "stereotypical Canadians"?

How are Canadians so different from minorities?

That's racist imo. 

I don't find that races of people are so different in Surrey that it's jarring to be around the different types, but maybe Toronto and Surrey are nothing alike?. 

[WestCanMan]

 

Here's the best I could find for "video" of cops kicking and standing on Brooks. In the age of everyone having a video camera on their phone somehow there are stills being used to show a situation that was being recorded from multiple angles.

This DA's analyzation of a crime scene is eerily reminiscent of Rock Bottom's coverage of Homer Simpson going for the Gummy Venus De Milo. 

[WestCanMan]

9 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

We were talking about Brooks not the chief. A man shot in the back while running from the police.

I'd call that an execution.

This is all in the wrong thread. There's a Brooks thread in the US forum. 

[Iceni warrior]

11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'd call that a lie. You know what happened - Brooks shot a taser at the cop. You can clearly see sparks come out in the video.

You're intentionally mischaracterizing this serious issue because CTV is doing that. FYI, just because CTV is lying doesn't make it right for you to do it iceni. You're a liar now. That's not good. 

What is CTV?

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

What is CTV?

 

CTV is a broadcast network in Canada owned by Bell Media.   CTV News ran with the U.S. news story about Brooks' death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTV_Television_Network

[Iceni warrior]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

CTV is a broadcast network in Canada owned by Bell Media.   CTV News ran with the U.S. news story about Brooks' death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTV_Television_Network

Ah, I don't have access to that here. I have seen footage of him being shot in the back while running away though.

[Moonbox]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

every organization your going to have wingnuts....what we need to do is weed them out, and some how make some changes to perfect our policing and it's practices....not defund them, or what ever the whacky left is mumbling about. any change is going to take more funding....not less. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-use-of-force-data-1.5615871

That's the problem.  We can't weed the bad ones out.  They're protected by militant police unions and they're protected by the way the police close ranks among themselves.  It's a sad state when the public needs to insist on body cams (that many officers turn off or misuse on purpose).  There's very little accountability and it's only when we catch things on video in many cases that something gets done.  

As you say, most of the cops are good people doing good work, but that's not always the case and the public backlash we're seeing now is a result of that previously mentioned lack of accountability.  If the police did a better job of monitoring and disciplining there own, we'd not be having this conversation.  Seeing Rayshard Brooks get kicked on the ground after the officer had already shot him was sickening, and Atlanta police officers are showing solidarity with him via soft walk-out and not responding to calls.  That's beyond the pale.  

 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

Ah, I don't have access to that here. I have seen footage of him being shot in the back while running away though.

No you haven't. That's a lie. You've seen footage of him being shot when he fired a taser at police. 

Unless you're willing to let someone shoot you in face with a taser you're in no position to say that the police should let someone do that to them. 

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

No you haven't. That's a lie. You've seen footage of him being shot when he fired a taser at police. 

Unless you're willing to let someone shoot you in face with a taser you're in no position to say that the police should let someone do that to them. 

 

Indeed...the entire video of the encounter was pretty typical and friendly...until he grabbed the taser and ran....and shot it at the officers.

[Army Guy]

44 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That's the problem.  We can't weed the bad ones out.  They're protected by militant police unions and they're protected by the way the police close ranks among themselves.  It's a sad state when the public needs to insist on body cams (that many officers turn off or misuse on purpose).  There's very little accountability and it's only when we catch things on video in many cases that something gets done.  

As you say, most of the cops are good people doing good work, but that's not always the case and the public backlash we're seeing now is a result of that previously mentioned lack of accountability.  If the police did a better job of monitoring and disciplining there own, we'd not be having this conversation.  Seeing Rayshard Brooks get kicked on the ground after the officer had already shot him was sickening, and Atlanta police officers are showing solidarity with him via soft walk-out and not responding to calls.  That's beyond the pale.  

 

Your transferring most of the problems that they are having in the US and slapping them on Canadian police departments, such as police unions do not have the same power as they do in the US, Rayshard was an American , living in the US, those cops are American and  has nothing to do with Canadian policing at all. Most Canadian police found guilty of offenses are generally dismissed from the force ,...

Problem with body cams is a tech thing, they are big and bulky, they can be turned on and off because the memory is that that large, and problems with clarity as well they are not built as well as most cell phones...and they are expensive, that is not a police department problem but rather those that are funding them....including our government....and they are talking about defunding....  

Most of our nations police officer are doing excellent jobs, and the few that are not can't hide any more...you can't have results like 99.9 % of inter actions have a positive outcome and have a department full of bad cops....I think their record speaks volumes.....we are debating this topic because of special interest groups feel the need to transfer a US problem here to Canada...It has already been shown here that more white people are killed by police than any other minority and yet there is a systemic racist problem in our police forces. From 2007 to 2017 there has been 461 fatal shootings recorded by all police departments.... it does not say out of how many inter actions but just the RCMP has 2.7 million in one year, so im guess well over 40 to 50 million nation wide over a 10 year period, and only 461 ended in a fatal shooting, you calculate the odds of getting shot by a Canadian cop....I think you got more chances of winning Lotto max....I think we the people have to come to terms that cops may not be the only problem, maybe it's us because some of us are just assholes....

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform-custom/deadly-force

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

That's the problem.  We can't weed the bad ones out.  They're protected by militant police unions and they're protected by the way the police close ranks among themselves.  It's a sad state when the public needs to insist on body cams (that many officers turn off or misuse on purpose).  There's very little accountability and it's only when we catch things on video in many cases that something gets done.  

As you say, most of the cops are good people doing good work, but that's not always the case and the public backlash we're seeing now is a result of that previously mentioned lack of accountability.  If the police did a better job of monitoring and disciplining there own, we'd not be having this conversation.  Seeing Rayshard Brooks get kicked on the ground after the officer had already shot him was sickening, and Atlanta police officers are showing solidarity with him via soft walk-out and not responding to calls.  That's beyond the pale.  

Police didn't close ranks to protect Chauvin at all. Police forces from all over the US announced their disapproval, as was appropriate.

The Brooks incident is entirely different though. Officers should be closing ranks to protect the officers involved because the DA in Atlanta was telling lies about the officers at the press conference. That's insane. "Brooks was slightly over the limit, and jovial." It's nice to know that in Atlanta I can punch a cop in the face, shoot a taser at them and still be considered 'jovial'. 

 

The officers in the Brooks shooting were polite, patient and professional with him the entire time. They were never rude or forceful. They gave Brooks every opportunity to go along with his due process in a safe and unthreatening manner.

It's Brooks who was found passed out drunk at the wheel and then blew .108 - way over the legal limit anywhere. He lied to the police multiple times. Police needed to take him in for blood tests so that they could be certain of a DUI charge. They also needed to find out if there were also drugs in his system, which could make him even more wasted than just the .108 BA. It was Brooks who wigged out, punched a cop, stole a taser and shot it at the officers. 

Under Georgia law, firing a taser at someone is the same as firing a gun at them in the eyes of the law. A taser is treated as a firearm. Brooks' ignorance of the law is no excuse.

The DA's feigned ignorance is just another of his many lies. Just two weeks earlier this same DA charged an Atlanta officer with aggravated assault for merely POINTING a taser at someone's chest, and then the DA pontificated to the world that a taser 'is a deadly weapon'. 

 

"The problem" is that cops have a hard job, and the media and the powers that be are currently campaigning to protect the 'rights' of individuals to resist arrest and attack police. They should be taking every opportunity to spread the message that obeying lawful commands and allowing due process to take it's course is the only way to handle these situations. Police and black men will continue to play this deadly game as long as those people keep saying that resisting is ok, the cops were to blame for everything bad that happened. These incidents will keep occurring, riots, looting and arson will ensue. Cops will be murdered in the streets. Rinse, repeat. 

The media and the Barack Obamas of the world are to blame for a lot of these deaths.