Argus Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Boges said: Culture is different than all that. People come to Canada because it's a great country to live if. But it's also a country that doesn't cling to some homogenous culture. People come here because it's a rich country. They don't have any particular preference for it otherwise. They go to the US and UK in even greater numbers. Further, they have been going to those countries and Canada for a very long time - even back to when they did, in fact, have largely homogeneous cultures. You think the first third world immigrants allowed to come to Canada in the 70s were coming because it didn't have a 'homogeneous culture'? They didn't give a damn about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, Argus said: You think the first third world immigrants allowed to come to Canada in the 70s were coming because it didn't have a 'homogeneous culture'? They didn't give a damn about that. Yeah it's all about wealth. Or at least opportunity at wealth. If not for them, their children. Whether it be a melting pot or a country devoted to multiculturalism. The fabric of a country's core cultures change, for the better, when more cultures intermingle, intermarry and have more kids that know of families of different racial make-ups or cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Boges said: You've never met people that talk like that? Perhaps come to Northern Ontario sometime. I was in the military, I worked with people from Timmins and other places like that. Some from north Ont were even ESL people who never spoke english at all til they joined up. I don't know anyone who talks like that. In southern Manitoba and Sask I've known a few people to talk 'a bit' like the people in the Fargo movie. People who say warshed instead of washed, etc. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Boges said: Yeah it's all about wealth. Or at least opportunity at wealth. If not for them, their children. Whether it be a melting pot or a country devoted to multiculturalism. The fabric of a country's core cultures change, for the better, when more cultures intermingle, intermarry and have more kids that know of families of different racial make-ups or cultures. There is absolutely no evidence that a country's culture will always change for the better. That's particularly so when the background cultures of newcomers are and have always been hostile to the ideals of the homegrown culture. I mean, compare democratic values, homophobia, sexism, and religious and racial tolerance in Canada to that of our major immigrant source countries like Pakistan, India, China, Nigeria and the Philippines. Yes, several are purported democracies, but they're democracies with no respect for human rights. What does it say of a country's culture that they'd vote for a guy like Rodrigo Duterte? And some of the human rights abuses going on in India are pretty scary. As for Pakistan... ugh. I simply do not see how adding hundreds of thousands of people from these areas every year is likely to improve our culture for the better. Rather the reverse, I fear. Remember that this country will have foreigners as a majority within 25 years or so. What will that do to our democracy and values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Argus said: There is absolutely no evidence that a country's culture will always change for the better. That's particularly so when the background cultures of newcomers are and have always been hostile to the ideals of the homegrown culture. I mean, compare democratic values, homophobia, sexism, and religious and racial tolerance in Canada to that of our major immigrant source countries like Pakistan, India, China, Nigeria and the Philippines. Yes, several are purported democracies, but they're democracies with no respect for human rights. What does it say of a country's culture that they'd vote for a guy like Rodrigo Duterte? And some of the human rights abuses going on in India are pretty scary. As for Pakistan... ugh. I simply do not see how adding hundreds of thousands of people from these areas every year is likely to improve our culture for the better. Rather the reverse, I fear. Remember that this country will have foreigners as a majority within 25 years or so. What will that do to our democracy and values? You could say the same about the US voting for someone like Trump. The goal of the GOP is to suppress voting. The US needed special laws that gave black people equal voting rights, laws that have since been repealed. I'm not sure you want to use embracing democracy as an indication of how successful multiculturalism is. People from the countries you describe have embraced Canada from both ends of the political spectrum. Edited June 22, 2020 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 12:41 PM, Moonbox said: Okay fair enough, but the guy's still running. He's holding a non-lethal weapon and he's running away. They had his ID. They had his car. He was a drunken fool and they shot him in the back while he was running away. That's not true. A tazer can be considered a lethal weapon, and furthermore, being hit by a tazer can incompacitate you, allowing access to your gun or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Shady said: That's not true. A tazer can be considered a lethal weapon, and furthermore, being hit by a tazer can incompacitate you, allowing access to your gun or more. Tasers can be lethal....how quickly they forget that Robert Dziekanski was killed by RCMP taser at the Vancouver airport in 2007. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Shady said: That's not true. A tazer can be considered a lethal weapon, and furthermore, being hit by a tazer can incompacitate you, allowing access to your gun or more. True, but so can a rock. There's a reason that tazers are preferable to firearms in many cases, and it's because they're designed to be non-lethal. That's not really relevant in any case, but here's the question - With the man running away, what was likely to happen if they just let him go? He was a drunk idiot, but he wasn't holding people at knife or gun-point and there was no reason to believe he was out looking for trouble. There was a very clear and obvious path for de-escalation and every reason to believe he could be picked up later - if they just let him go and sober up. Nobody seems willing to discuss this last part, but I have to ask again, what sort of spin are we trying to put on the big boot to the chest after the guy was down and suffering from multiple GSW's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Nobody seems willing to discuss this last part, but I have to ask again, what sort of spin are we trying to put on the big boot to the chest after the guy was down and suffering from multiple GSW's? What's to discuss ? Police are trained to immediately stop the threat of assault or deadly force. Happened again in Toronto yesterday with a nutjob who had a knife. Boom...boom...boom ! Just as they were trained. Wanna change that ? Fine, but don't sit and wonder why it happens now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Moonbox said: True, but so can a rock. There's a reason that tazers are preferable to firearms in many cases, and it's because they're designed to be non-lethal. That's not really relevant in any case, but here's the question - With the man running away, what was likely to happen if they just let him go? He was a drunk idiot, but he wasn't holding people at knife or gun-point and there was no reason to believe he was out looking for trouble. There was a very clear and obvious path for de-escalation and every reason to believe he could be picked up later - if they just let him go and sober up. Nobody seems willing to discuss this last part, but I have to ask again, what sort of spin are we trying to put on the big boot to the chest after the guy was down and suffering from multiple GSW's? No, it's very relevant to the case. Under Georgia law, a taser is considered a lethal weapon, because depending on how it's used, it can be. Like I've already said, if you're hit by a taser, you're incapacitated and at the mercy of the perpetrator. But what you're suggesting is utter nonsense. So we stop enforcing the law and allow people to go home because they might become violent? So all drunk drivers that are stopped now have the option of walking home? And what if when they're home they still refuse to be arrested? Then what's your plan? Or what if whle walking home, he found another vehicle to drive, and ended up killing some innocent people? Btw, there was no big boot to the guy's chest, that's just more propaganda. Apparently we need to run public information campaigns. If you physically assault a police officer, and take his or her weapon, you could face deadly consequences. That used to be a pretty low bar to clear, but apparently not any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: What's to discuss ? Police are trained to immediately stop the threat of assault or deadly force. Happened again in Toronto yesterday with a nutjob who had a knife. Boom...boom...boom ! Just as they were trained. Wanna change that ? Fine, but don't sit and wonder why it happens now. Nutjob was having a schizophrenic epidsode. And in his own home. https://globalnews.ca/news/7090936/ejaz-choudry-family-calls-for-inquiry/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: Nutjob was having a schizophrenic epidsode. And in his own home. https://globalnews.ca/news/7090936/ejaz-choudry-family-calls-for-inquiry/ Doesn't matter....the police had made several calls to that nutjob residence before. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. AKA...suicide by cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Doesn't matter....the police had made several calls to that nutjob residence before. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. AKA...suicide by cop. Everything I've read about this case indicates the officers escalated at every step. Not attempt to deescalate. Defund the police. The SIU is on this now and Peel regional police, which is all about diversity will have to answer for murdering a mentally ill Muslim man. Good luck with "community policing" after that. Edited June 22, 2020 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, Boges said: Everything I've read about this case indicates the officers escalated at every step. Not attempt to deescalate. Defund the police. That's fine, but nobody should act like this outcome was a BIG SURPRISE. Taxpayers and city government have been funding these kind of actions for years. Quote The SIU is on this now and Peel regional police, which is all about diversity will have to answer for murdering a mentally ill Muslim man. Good luck with community policing after that. It's not murder, and because he did have a knife, I doubt any criminal charges will be filed against the police. The SIU...what a joke ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It's not murder, and because he did have a knife, I doubt any criminal charges will be filed against the police. The SIU...what a joke ! This comment speaks to why the level of trust of the police has plummeted, because you're right. And because it's all done in private, the public may never know what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, Boges said: This comment speaks to why the level of trust of the police has plummeted, because you're right. And because it's all done in private, the public may never know what actually happened. Yes....the same "SIU" has been in place for years after multiple deaths by cop. Now we will see who has the balls...and the votes...to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes....the same "SIU" has been in place for years after multiple deaths by cop. Now we will see who has the balls...and the votes...to change it. That's the irony of the cop debate. I would vote Conservative in any Canadian election, but it seems Conservatives love Police Unions. Not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, Boges said: Everything I've read about this case indicates the officers escalated at every step. You're reading only one side of the story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, betsy said: You're reading only one side of the story! The other side is behind the shield of the SIU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Boges said: That's the irony of the cop debate. I would vote Conservative in any Canadian election, but it seems Conservatives love Police Unions. Not sure why. It's not just Conservatives....the GTA is not Conservatives country. Few want to admit it, but the police exist to do society's dirty work, and take the heat for when it goes sideways. Edited June 22, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 One place I'll give the US credit is that they're a bit more transparent about all this. Body Cams, releasing police reports etc. Not so in Canada. The police Unions are even stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: It's is not just Conservatives....the GTA is not Conservatives country. Few want to admit it, but the police exist to do society's dirty work, and and take the heat for when it goes sideways. Except they don't like taking any heat. The area this happened is actually a bell weather are of the country. A hope, skip and jump from Ford Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I'm pretty certain that if this arrest involved a white person instead of some Native chief,there would be virtually no attention given to this story.The Media has to spice up the details of the story and fan the flames of imaginary racism for two reasons. The Media has it's own leftist narrative to push, and they also desperately need attention for their dying business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: One place I'll give the US credit is that they're a bit more transparent about all this. Body Cams, releasing police reports etc. Not so in Canada. The police Unions are even stronger. Defunding or eliminating police is not supported by a majority of citizens. All the drama is just more fun and games until people change their expectations about "law and order". Remember, in Canada it is..."Peace, ORDER, and good government". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Defunding or eliminating police is not supported by a majority of citizens. All the drama is just more fun and games until people change their expectations about "law and order". Remember, in Canada it is..."Peace, ORDER, and good government". When people realize how much of their tax dollars go to meter maids with guns, I think things will change. As violent crime drops, police budgets keep going up. Defund doesn't mean eliminating police, but their role should be more focused. Edited June 22, 2020 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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