The Coronavirus

[eyeball]

57 minutes ago, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  

Complete truth. Economics has resisted being trumped by virtue every inch of the way for decades and your ilk clearly has every intention of keeping it that way.

[taxme]

On 5/31/2020 at 1:01 PM, OftenWrong said:

Good question but it seems the virus is dwindling anyway, despite our best efforts to make the most of it. It may increase only slightly, as the age-distribution does not support that a huge outbreak could suddenly occur.

Another question is, shall we keep counting the number of people dying in old age homes, and not do anything about that, and use it to justify shutting down society?

I just saw on the news this morning that deaths from opioid overdose in BC is around 237. I also saw some time back on the news that the deaths from the China virus in BC so far was around 180 people out of a population of approx. 5 million. I wonder as to how many people in Canada have died from opioid overdose compared to how many people in Canada have died from the China virus? It would appear as though more people may be dying from this heroin drug than from the virus in Canada. 

So, the question that needs to be answered here is why is there so much emphasis being put on this China virus and not on the opioid overdose deaths? We know that those opioid deaths are for real. How do we really know that all those deaths reported by the media, our politicians, and our health officials have really died from this so called China virus and is all for real? And when thousands of people get sick or die from some virus every year in Canada then what makes this China virus one of the big daddy viruses's of them all? 180 deaths is not what I would call a staggering amount of people to have died from this China virus.

Our lives and society itself did not need to be shut down at all. It is the lying media, our lying politicians, and the lying health officials that need to be shut down and replaced. Thanks to those mentioned this country has become a lost society of losers who have been hurt more by this so called China virus than what the virus has done to we the people itself. This nonsense must end and we must all get back to the good old normal because I do not like seeing where or what this bad new normal is doing to this country.  IMHO, This China virus is just another one of those false flag events meant to create chaos and mayhem and to try and make we the people's lives even more miserable than what they were before, although before, they were much better than what we are seeing and having to live and put up with today.

Now they are even trying to ban handshakes and even high fives. I went golfing yesterday and one of the rules that we were suppose to follow was that we were not allowed to hand shake or do a high five. WTH? Have we gone mad and have gone this far that the good old handshakes and high fives are gone forever? like hell that will be happening for me. I will shake anyone's hands and even do a high five if required. This is why I keep saying that this China virus nonsense must come to an end. All of our big producing crowd events appear to be going the same way as the dodo bird. Getting together with thousands of other spectators and cheering and high five someone at an event is now deemed to be a crime against humanity, and the sad part is that humanity is starting to accept those crimes against humanity rules. I now get people backing away from me when I get to close to them. F'n ridiculous. 

[taxme]

On 5/31/2020 at 4:28 PM, Independent1986 said:

You think the rebel media has the truth ? or Breitbart ? Let me give you a hint the moment you say I believe 100 % this is the truth you are no longer free, you gave your mind to be brainwashed by something or someone as the truth is a little bit in everything. Freedom is in the search not in the perceived destination.

I believe people like yourself should be allowed to say their opinion because extremism is born when people are shut down and isolated because of the kind of stuff that you wrote. If it makes you feel good to blame Soros, globalists, aliens, the kabala, The Pope so be it as long as you don't impose it on me.

I do believe that everyone has a right to their own opinions and points of view. Do so demonstrate and keep it peaceful. Extremism will result from those in our society who do not believe that people like myself or others are entitled to have a right to my/their opinions and points of view. They will always get attacked by the leftist lieberal media. 

Why are you of the opinion that those people you mentioned above are not out to try and shut people like me or others down? There is plenty of evidence on the internet to show that those mentioned above are not in favor of allowing people like me or others have an opinion that differs to their opinions. When those patriotic and nationalist Canadian or Americans go out to peacefully demonstrate against what they believe is a violation of their constitutional rights and freedoms they are suddenly attacked and mocked by the leftist lieberal lying MSM, and then out comes the Soros Antifa communist ilk and thugs who begin to try to disrupt and try to deny their rights to their freedom of expression, and they begin to start a fight and start throwing things around at those peaceful demonstrators, and then the brawls begin. We see that happening all of the time.

But for those on the left that do demonstrate and who have leftist lieberal socialist beliefs, we never see any violence of any kind being created, and all is mostly peaceful, no violence happening. We do not ever see any of those Soros morons and retard Soros commie ilk thugs causing any problems now do we at a leftist lieberal socialist demonstration? If it were not for The Rebel and the many other alternative media websites out there, Canada would probably be saluting some newly created communist flag flying in Canada today. Hey, we never know, eh?  

[SpankyMcFarland]

Lawyer and epidemiologist, Amir Attaran, is fairly critical of Canada's Covid effort so far:

Quote

Our progress on “bending the curve” is halting and unimpressive compared to Europe and Asia. Our testing is so broken down that it lags behind Rwanda’s and Ethiopia’s. Our epidemiological data is so inadequate that even if we wanted to conduct the endgame well, often we cannot. Places like Toronto and Quebec are reopening too soon, risking to sicken—and kill—people needlessly, while the Maritimes and Prairies are reopening too slowly, strangling the economy.

 

Quote

Now in normal times, Ottawa rightly lets provinces run their own show. But a once-in-a-century pandemic is not normal. Either the federal government becomes more significant, or it ends up tearing federation apart while mistakenly believing it is protecting it.

The federations that successfully fought COVID-19 did not do so using a weak federal hand or by giving provinces free reign (sic). Australia on Feb. 1 precautionarily banned travellers from China, and its prime minister and state premiers signed a partnership agreement on health care funding for COVID-19 in March, even before cases took off. Germany launched a single national testing strategy for COVID-19 in January, which by April was executing more tests per week than Canada mustered in several months. Switzerland’s federal council declared a national emergency in March, including a uniform national lockdown, which explains how they crushed their soaring curve so quickly.

And he has some suggestions:

Quote

I am positive the federal government can be a constructive force, on all three scientific problems I spotlighted.  The Emergencies Act allows Cabinet to draw cordons sanitaires that isolate the Prairies and Maritimes from a second wave of infection, so their people can resume their lives safely. The power of the purse allows the Finance Minister to make bailout dollars contingent on the provinces successfully executing a national testing strategy. The Public Health Agency of Canada Act allows Cabinet to make regulations for how provinces share epidemiological data, so that we finally trash the fax machine, and have the timely epidemiological analyses needed for safe reopening.

https://www.macleans.ca/society/health/how-canada-has-bungled-the-covid-19-endgame/

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Lawyer and epidemiologist, Amir Attaran, is fairly critical of Canada's Covid effort so far:

Canada was rendered impotent when it came to testing, because we do not produce things. All we have is what we can procure from China. And we know what happened there, what they did to us. Since we are so helpless in taking care of our own health-care needs, and the needs of citizens, we now face the poor performance curve for the dreadful Covid-19 infection and recovery rate, and low testing regimen. With Germany it was a completely different situation already before the virus came.

[Zeitgeist]

Canada is 17th overall in deaths per million and 41st in testing. We have fewer deaths than most Western European countries and the United States, yet Germany and Scandinavia (apart from Sweden) have done better in both testing and fatalities. However, the only comparable shining example to Canada is Germany, because most of the countries that have done better than Canada are smaller, more isolated, or less free.  The problem is that Germany is still struggling with reopening, so until we see a comparable western model that has successfully reopened, we really don’t have many examples to follow.

The good news is that testing and tracing capabilities are rising in Canada and we are gradually opening up on a regional basis. However, there will continue to be new cases and deaths, probably more as we open up further, so we are essentially doing our best at crisis management, and that will continue until there’s a vaccine and effective treatment.

I do think we should move to universal immunity testing, so that people can make better informed decisions about their behaviour.  I also think we need to shift the public health focus to boosting health and immunity rather than shutting people in. The fear instilled by health policy is hurting our reopening.  We also need more careful protection of the vulnerable as most people return to physical public life.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[SpankyMcFarland]

39 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is 17th overall in deaths per million and 41st in testing. We have fewer deaths than most Western European countries and the United States, yet Germany and Scandinavia (apart from Sweden) have done better in both testing and fatalities. However, the only comparable shining example to Canada is Germany, because most of the countries that have done better than Canada are smaller, more isolated, or less free.  The problem is that Germany is still struggling with reopening, so until we see a comparable western model that has successfully reopened, we really don’t have many examples to follow.

As Attaran points out, one of our most obvious peers is Australia. They are probably more isolated than us, without a US next door, but they do have a lot of travellers from China and resemble us in many ways, including size. What’s striking is how quickly they came out with a national policy document as I think I noted much earlier in this thread. The federal government also seems to have played a more active role there in keeping every jurisdiction on the same page. 
 

Edited June 5, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

As Attaran points out, one of our most obvious peers is Australia. They are probably more isolated than us, without a US next door, but they do have a lot of travellers from China and resemble us in many ways, including size. What’s striking is how quickly they came out with a national policy document. The federal government also seems to have played a more active role there in keeping every jurisdiction on the same page. 
 

It’s still a very isolated and more jingoistic country.  Having the US next door changes our context completely.  Australia in Europe or North America would be entirely different.  That doesn’t mean they didn’t make some effective policy decisions, but it’s an apples and oranges comparison to Canada in many respects.  Hundreds of thousands of Australians aren’t wintering in China or driving to Beijing to watch Broadway productions.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[SpankyMcFarland]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s still a very isolated and more jingoistic country.  Having the US next door changes our context completely.  Australia in Europe or North America would be entirely different.  That doesn’t mean they didn’t make some effective policy decisions, but it’s an apples and oranges comparison to Canada in many respects.  Hundreds of thousands of Australians aren’t wintering in China or driving to Beijing to watch Broadway productions.  

The thing is there are both large countries and European countries (one with a much bigger population than ours) that have done better than us. As Attaran says, besting the US in a public health crisis is really setting the bar low. 

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The thing is there are both large countries and European countries (one with a much bigger population than ours) that have done better than us. As Attaran says, besting the US in a public health crisis is really setting the bar low. 

Well Germany is the only real success story in Europe that has a similar population and context, but it isn’t that much more successful and it hasn’t successfully reopened, so there’s no great model or template. It’s still very much building the airplane as we fly it.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

There may be thousands of coronavirus species in bats alone, potentially capable of making the jump to another species:

Quote

“We are looking at maybe 10,000 to 15,000 bat coronaviruses that are out there.”

There is plenty of evidence that some of these viruses are spilling over to humans all the time in southern China, Daszak says. In an earlier paper, Daszak and co-workers found SARS-related antibodies to coronaviruses in about 3% of people they sampled in China living near bat caves, suggesting they had been infected by some of these viruses. He argues that the world needs to change its approach and go from reacting to pandemics to trying to identify dangerous coronaviruses before they emerge. Many more viruses that are closely related to SARS-CoV-2 are just waiting to be discovered in wildlife, Daszak says. “But, of course, if history repeats itself, by the time we’ve found all the rest of the SARS-2 clade, something else will be emerging.”

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06 ... onaviruses

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[Rue]

Excellent duscussion between S and Z, enjoyed it.

[OftenWrong]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

there will continue to be new cases and deaths, probably more as we open up further, so we are essentially doing our best at crisis management, and that will continue until there’s a vaccine and effective treatment.

Of course there will be more cases and deaths, but I don't know what you are worried about in terms of "crisis management". What crisis?

All data for Canada is showing a steady decline in new cases and deaths. I haven't seen much concern about social distancing in about two weeks. The virus is going away on its own.

Edited June 6, 2020 by OftenWrong

[WestCanMan]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is 17th overall in deaths per million and 41st in testing. We have fewer deaths than most Western European countries and the United States, yet Germany and Scandinavia (apart from Sweden) have done better in both testing and fatalities. However, the only comparable shining example to Canada is Germany, because most of the countries that have done better than Canada are smaller, more isolated, or less free.  The problem is that Germany is still struggling with reopening, so until we see a comparable western model that has successfully reopened, we really don’t have many examples to follow.

The good news is that testing and tracing capabilities are rising in Canada and we are gradually opening up on a regional basis. However, there will continue to be new cases and deaths, probably more as we open up further, so we are essentially doing our best at crisis management, and that will continue until there’s a vaccine and effective treatment.

I do think we should move to universal immunity testing, so that people can make better informed decisions about their behaviour.  I also think we need to shift the public health focus to boosting health and immunity rather than shutting people in. The fear instilled by health policy is hurting our reopening.  We also need more careful protection of the vulnerable as most people return to physical public life.  

How do you think it's possible that Canada is 17th in deaths per million? Do the math Zg...

We have the 11th most covid deaths in the world and the 39th highest population... 

These guys have us 11th: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

11th in the world in covid deaths per million, and 187th in the world in population density..... hmmmmmm. How awesome is that? 

187th isn't even that great of a metric. There are countries ahead of us that have over 380 people per sq km. There are countries behind us with 350 ppl/sq km. Our pop density is 4.

Ontario is 14. Quebec is 8. The Fraser Valley is the most crowded area in BC - 22 people per sq km. Even if you take 1/10th the size of Que with their whole population, their pop density would only be 80.

Tokyo metro area has over 6,000 people per sq km and the same population as Canada. 14,000 sq km.

Japan's pop density is 350, our is 4, their deaths per million is 7, ours is 208. Even if you subtract the 200 from ours, we're still higher.

I understand optimism, but this isn't optimism, it's highly inaccurate and misleading. You're high-fiving other Libs over a huge pile of corpses that shouldn't be there. 

 

[Infidel Dog]

Here's something that's worth knowing about.

Do you remember how 2 or 3 weeks ago they were blasting the news everywhere about a study that purported to show how hydroxychloroquine wasn't just ineffective, it was dangerous? 

The "study" was backed by reputable sources like The Lancet and the New England journal of medicine and the WHO. 

Nevertheless there were skeptics of that study.

Some of us heard about the skepticism.

Well guess what? Turns out what we're being called conspiracy theory freaks and deniers were right.

The "Study" was bogus. It was a fraud, a hoax, a scam. A lie.

Turns out the study was co-authored by this guy, Sapan Desai. He's chief executive of this company called Surgisphere. Surgisphere had braintrusts like a science fiction writer and an adult entertainment model fabricating the data out of whole cloth. The data isn't real. It was made up.

And the evidence for all this is so undeniably, incontrovertibly true that even leftist papers considered mainstream like the New York Times and The Guardian are now being forced to admit it.

Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company

Two Huge Covid-19 Studies Are Retracted After Scientists Sound Alarms

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

 

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Rue said:

1. No one stops your opinions.  

2. The blanket slurs against people who have different opinions than yours doesn't make your whining about being picked on for your opinions any more credible just the opposite.

3. You get carried away on your rhetoric as much as any rabid leftist you label.

4. You are no Taxme 

5. I am saying it out of respect.  

1.  They won't stop.  It would be nice if we heard this message in the range of 1% of the time but the far-right loudmouth assholes of Canada get heard about 10X what they deserve to be heard, to the contrary of their boo-hoo-hoo the CBC is oppressing me bullshit.    Elizabeth May was excluded from national debates repeatedly, and Maxime Bernier was given the golden keys to appear... despite her having many multiple times the support he has.
2.  They are the ultimate snowflakes.
3.  They brand the Liberal party as 'leftists' so what do you expect ?  
4.  Agreed
5. Don't.  Ridicule and scold them until they move on to barren web boards with the boys in the bund.  Freedom of speech thrives when we marginalize racists and trolls.

[Independent1986]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. Don't.  Ridicule and scold them until they move on to barren web boards with the boys in the bund.  Freedom of speech thrives when we marginalize racists and trolls.

Amazing point, you are a genius. So if a human being has economic and environmental issues that makes him revert to tribalism (for all races) your solution is to marginalize him.

What is that going to achieve ? He will group with other marginalized individuals and extremism will flourish. However if you approach the person to engage in a conversation, you might be able to plant something in their head to think about. 

You can talk to the individual, not with the mob, once people join groups you can't reason with them. It seems is exactly what you want. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Independent1986

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

How do you think it's possible that Canada is 17th in deaths per million? Do the math Zg...

We have the 11th most covid deaths in the world and the 39th highest population... 

Useless to compare deaths per million on its own. Population density must be a factor, among others. Canada has wide open spaces and low density for about 1/2 its population.

 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Useless to compare deaths per million on its own. Population density must be a factor, among others. Canada has wide open spaces and low density for about 1/2 its population.

For sure. Our low population density is a huge protection. We are socially-distanced by virtue of our geography. 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here's something that's worth knowing about.

Do you remember how 2 or 3 weeks ago they were blasting the news everywhere about a study that purported to show how hydroxychloroquine wasn't just ineffective, it was dangerous? 

The "study" was backed by reputable sources like The Lancet and the New England journal of medicine and the WHO. 

Nevertheless there were skeptics of that study.

Some of us heard about the skepticism.

Well guess what? Turns out what we're being called conspiracy theory freaks and deniers were right.

The "Study" was bogus. It was a fraud, a hoax, a scam. A lie.

Turns out the study was co-authored by this guy, Sapan Desai. He's chief executive of this company called Surgisphere. Surgisphere had braintrusts like a science fiction writer and an adult entertainment model fabricating the data out of whole cloth. The data isn't real. It was made up.

And the evidence for all this is so undeniably, incontrovertibly true that even leftist papers considered mainstream like the New York Times and The Guardian are now being forced to admit it.

Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company

Two Huge Covid-19 Studies Are Retracted After Scientists Sound Alarms

The sudden outburst of misinformation about HCQ was insane.

MSM sources told all sorts of lies about the side-effects of HCQ, the studies which showed promise were instantly discredited without reason, the results one group (at the VA) which was given HCQ in a non-clinical trial was mischaracterized and heralded as the conclusive/definitive all-time study of HCQ vs covid, people said that the drug couldn't possibly be used as a prophylactic although it has been used like that for malaria for decades, people incorrectly said that Trump was profiting from it in some way (in complete ignorance of the fact that it has been off-patent for decades, and what that actually means), that a drug that combats covid isn't a proper solution - you need a vaccine, etc. 

Whatever the truth is about HCQ and covid, the seeming desperation of the alt-left to discredit it was bizarre.

I don't know if it's because Trump was the first major politician to talk about it in the US, or if it's because there's some sinister plot to force people to take vaccines, but squashing the use of HCQ before it had a chance to be properly tested became priority-one for the left instantly.

The funny thing with the vaccine is, the people who are saying "the side effects of HCQ are unknown" are total hypocrites. It's a 60 year old drug. The side effects have been known for a very long time, and proven on the widest test group of people imaginable. Whatever vaccine comes out will obviously be new, and there's no way in hell that it's side-effects can be understood to the same extent that HCQ's side-effects are known.

Leftists like nothing more than being led around by the nose by their known-to-be-fabricators media. They're beyond reason.

[taxme]

On 6/4/2020 at 3:20 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Lawyer and epidemiologist, Amir Attaran, is fairly critical of Canada's Covid effort so far:

 

And he has some suggestions:

https://www.macleans.ca/society/health/how-canada-has-bungled-the-covid-19-endgame/

If the people keep listening to these doom and gloom fools we will never see the end of this lock down and social distancing. As I have said a few times before I nor anyone that I have spoken to knows of anyone who has picked up the China virus. So, just who are all of these  people that have died from this China virus anyway? I do not need anymore suggestions from someone like him who still believes that this was not an plandemic exercise hoax.

Gates to hell and his globalist ilk must be just having one big laugh at all of those covidiots out there that he was able to push this hoax on and make them all believe that there is this terrible virus plague out there that is going to kill millions. If you think that Gates and his globalist ilk practice social distancing, well, as they say, I do have a nice piece of swamp land to sell to those fools at a great bargain price. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Science is a systematic search for knowledge. Errors are part of this process. When mistakes are made, as they certainly will be in a situation like this where better means of diagnosis and treatment are being frantically sought, they are disclosed. 

[OftenWrong]

Let us not forget this is not over yet. State of Emergency in Ontario extended again, until June 30. There is little reason to expect it to not be extended yet again. It is dis-heartening for many working-class adults to find themselves facing a new reality, they now completely depend on the government checks alone.

Hard to find this information.

Markets
Turmoil in Canada’s Food Supply Chain Points to Summer Shortages

Quote

The Canadian government is worried about the country’s food security as the Covid-19 pandemic disrupts supplies and causes labor shortages. Food prices may rise and some products could become unavailable in supermarkets, Agriculture Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau said.

“We have plenty of food that will continue to reach grocery stores on a regular basis. But it is clear that Covid-19 is causing significant disruptions in our food supply chains,” Bibeau said by email. “As a result, Canadians could see less variety in grocery stores or a fluctuation in food prices.”

Soon money must run out, it's time to get a loan. Anyone got some money to lend to Canada? Hello to our admirable and venerable friends, the Chinese, can you help us out?

UK?  ....

United States? ...

Anybody?

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Soon money must run out, it's time to get a loan. Anyone got some money to lend to Canada? Hello to our admirable and venerable friends, the Chinese, can you help us out?

UK?  ....

United States? ...

Anybody?

 

$10 says they're just as fretfully asking themselves same thing.  I'm reminded of times I've seen a rock covered in little seals all looking nervously at a killer whale swimming by.  They all look back and forth between each other and the whale as if to ask/say we're doomed - there's nothing we can do!? Yup, seems to be the consensus and then the silly buggers all jump in the water!

Remember weeks and weeks ago I said we'd have to unleash our innovators, roll up our sleeves, sharpen our pencils and figure something new out?

Quote

Capitalism is broken. It’s time for something new.

Brooks writes that one of capitalism’s strengths is “creating a learning process to help people figure stuff out.” On that we agree. But I’ve learned over four decades of observing and writing about the economy that capitalism as we’ve known it doesn’t work. Time is of the essence. For the sake of our economic, democratic and ecological survival, it’s time for something better.

In the meantime my new sanitizing fogger and a barrel of disinfectant should be arriving any day now.  I ordered it a couple of weeks ago for our rental. My daughter went to look for one too and they went from being available to being on backorder to being unavailable within the span of 3 days.

Words out I have one and it's a little eye-popping what projecting $0.07 a sq ft at an application rate of 500 sq ft a minute times thirty 500 sq ft suites looks like on a spreadsheet. I'm going to make a killing....I feel so...giddy. I'll probably have to hire someone just to keep up.  I think I'll offer to sanitize local volunteer fire departments and ambulance stations for free.  I was a volley for many years and I know they appreciate that kind of thing. From each to each right? It'll be nice to give a little back but nothing wrong with a little ka-ching too!  Next year everyone will have one of these things so it'll probably be short and sweet.