Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

[Iceni warrior]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

89,000+ cases outside of China, 3,000+  deaths, greater than 3% lethality, 1919 Influenza was less than 1%

Panic buying sets in, lineups around the block at Costco's in the GTA

Costco shareholders approve.

COST $309.14 +28.00 (9.96%)

Disaster capitalism ftw

No, Spanish flu had a death rate of 10-20%.

An estimated 500 million cases with deaths of 50 -100 million.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

No, Spanish flu had a death rate of 10-20%.

An estimated 500 million cases with deaths of 50 -100 million.

Only 55,000 people died in Canada, as you say, it's much deadlier in the Third World.    Italy however, is not the Third World.

[Dougie93]

 

Quote

 

New data from China buttress fears about high coronavirus fatality rate, WHO expert says

The case fatality rate — the percentage of known infected people who die — is between 2% and 4% in Hubei province, and 0.7% in other parts of China, he said.

The lower rate outside of Hubei is likely due to the draconian social distancing measures China has put in place to try to slow spread of the virus. Other parts of China have not had the huge explosion of cases seen in Hubei, Aylward said.

A case fatality rate of between 2% to 4% would be catastrophic, if the virus spreads widely and infects a lot of people. Even a case fatality rate of 0.7% — which means 7 out of every 1,000 infected people would die — is sobering. It is seven times the fatality rate for seasonal flu, which is estimated to kill between 290,000 and 650,000 people a year globally.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/25/new-data-from-china-buttress-fears-about-high-coronavirus-fatality-rate-who-expert-says/

 

 

[Dougie93]

This is why you want to avoid the government in a pandemic.

They can't save you,  they don't even focus on that

The Chinese are doing what is prescribed, which is going door to door rounding anybody up with a temperature and hauling them off to the plague ward.

If you didn't have coronavirus before they haul you off, you certainly will after, because you can't distance yourself inside the death camp.

Being in close proximity with the infected apparently drives the lethality through the roof.

Hence why they are kicking & screaming in Hubei, when the government comes around to drag them away.

[Dougie93]

Don't let yourself become this guy tho . . .

 

Britons don't cry out as they go over the top, that's conduct unbecoming.

Stiff upper lip, eh wot ?

 

 

 

[Shady]

On 2/28/2020 at 8:41 PM, Argus said:

The stock market returned to normal and then took a deep dive again.

The problem here is nobody knows what's going to happen. Ebola and Bird flu never made it to the west, and SARS was short-lived. If this makes it out into the general population it's going to be here for a long time and that's going to have a big impact on people's spending habits. No more sports stadiums, movie theaters, concerts, theme parks, no more going near crowds, period. No one will want to get near a crowded bus or train. No one is going to be taking cruises or even flying around much. Tourism plummeting, etc. etc. Not to mention all the disruption created by workers staying home.

The market didn’t seem too worried today.  

Dow rallies 1,294 points, most in its history

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/investing/dow-stock-market-today/index.html

[Shady]

On 2/28/2020 at 3:51 PM, Dougie93 said:

We're not there yet

Nope, a killing could’ve been made in just a few days.

Dow rallies 1,294 points, most in its history

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/investing/dow-stock-market-today/index.html

[Shady]

I was right.  Don’t ever doubt me. 

[Iceni warrior]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Don't let yourself become this guy tho . . .

 

Britons don't cry out as they go over the top, that's conduct unbecoming.

Stiff upper lip, eh wot ?

 

 

 

Bloody right, got to stay civilised no matter how troubling the times are. A table without a tablecloth is an affront to common decency. It's only a short step from there to drinking tea out of a mug like a savage.

[Argus]

23 minutes ago, Shady said:

The market didn’t seem too worried today.  

Dow rallies 1,294 points, most in its history

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/investing/dow-stock-market-today/index.html

Yes, I noticed that. I'm more concerned with what it will do tomorrow and next week. China supposedly has the virus under control. If that reverses, if the numbers go up or it turns out they've been lying all of that is going to reverse very quickly. If the numbers start spreading in the US and cities start closing down it could also reverse very quickly.

[Dougie93]

No cause for concern, corrections are a good thing, that is simply the market seeking the price of things, which is how profits are made.

A massive correction due to coronavirus panic would be one of the greatest shorting/buying opportunities of all time.

In the crisis of 2008,  AMZN was $41.75 / share.   Now $1953.95

[Dougie93]

My niece just arrived back from South Korea, the worst effected country outside of China

She says there was no screening at the airport at all, it's business as usual at Pearson.

 

[betsy]

When compared with the rapid spread and deaths associated with the  flu - coronavirus isn't scary.  I think the media is hyping it for sensationalism.

Just like the flu, it's the older folks and those with health issues that are mostly at risk of dying from it.

 

Depending on how many people in your household - just prepare for the two weeks or so (just in case you need to self-isolate).  I would prepare for about at least a month's worth, thinking that if one of us is infected, others in this house might likely, eventually,  get it as well.  That means prolonged isolation.

Of course, the train blockades are what is driving a lot of panic shopping, imho.  People are concerned about delivery of items being delayed, and being out of something at a time when they need it most.

Edited March 3, 2020 by betsy

[Marocc]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

Depending on how many people in your household - just prepare for the two weeks or so (just in case you need to self-isolate). 

It's not like you can't have someone bring food and stuff. It's not the plague. They specifically say it isn't caught easily.

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

it's the older folks and those with health issues that are mostly at risk of dying from it.

Can I be concerned for them?

[betsy]

9 minutes ago, Marocc said:

It's not like you can't have someone bring food and stuff. It's not the plague. They specifically say it isn't caught easily.

Can I be concerned for them?

Would you take the chance relying on someone to bring what you'd need and want? 

Furthermore.....if the point is to avoid any contact with outsiders - you don't want anyone having contact with you as much as you can help it.  If those who delivered food had shown symptoms of even just the common cold - you'd think they won't want to be tested for coronavirus?  That puts more strain on our health system!

 

 

Quote

Can I be concerned for them?

That's up to you, isn't it?   You don't need any permission to feel what you feel, right?

When I had even just the common colds, I didn't visit my elderly in-laws (now both deceased), out of concern for them.

Edited March 3, 2020 by betsy

[Marocc]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

Would you take the chance relying on someone to bring what you'd need and want? 

Yeah. What do you think, they're gonna let people starve? If the quarantine was to be air sealed proof, they would tell people to prepare. They don't. For some reason they expect people to use their brains.

Afraid of going behind a door of someone with the virus? I wouldn't be able to stop someone from brining me what I need or want in order to get better and feel as well as possible.

12 minutes ago, betsy said:

- you'd think they won't want to be tested for coronavirus? 

They can want as much as they want. They will get to be tested if the medical personnel decides so. And if a person fears it so much obviously they're the wrong person. I wouldn't mind doing it.

 

15 minutes ago, betsy said:

That's up to you, isn't it?  

You said it's not scary — it's just the old people......

[betsy]

52 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Yeah. What do you think, they're gonna let people starve? If the quarantine was to be air sealed proof, they would tell people to prepare. They don't. For some reason they expect people to use their brains.

 

Hello?  Self-isolation doesn't mean you don't read or watch the news.   They did tell people to prepare!

 

Coronavirus live updates: Stockpile food and meds in case of infection, Canada's health minister says

https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/news/canada/coronavirus-live-updates-stockpile-food-and-meds-in-case-of-infection-canadas-health-minister-says-415969/

 

You didn't know?    ARE YOU IN CANADA?

 

 

A major part of using that brain is to.........UNDERSTAND WHAT SELF-ISOLATION IS ALL ABOUT!  UNDERSTAND ITS PURPOSE!

  It is to....... prevent others from getting it!

 

 

 

Quote

 

Afraid of going behind a door of someone with the virus? I wouldn't be able to stop someone from brining me what I need or want in order to get better and feel as well as possible.

They can want as much as they want.

 

Lol.   Will you read again.   Your responses are somewhat "off-key." 

I'm not saying you  stop someone from delivering, nor am I saying they are afraid to come! 

 

I'm saying, if you can prepare so they don't have to come..................why not?

 

 

 

Quote

They will get to be tested if the medical personnel decides so. And if a person fears it so much obviously they're the wrong person. I wouldn't mind doing it.

If they say they have the symptoms, and they were near someone who's self-isolated.....lol. what are the chances that they'll get tested? 

 

 

 

Quote

You said it's not scary — it's just the old people......

Btw.....are you high? Been bonging away?    Or....you're just in a cranky mood, and you want to argue about nothing?  Just because?

Even if it shows that.......you're not making any sense at all.

Oh, boy.

Edited March 3, 2020 by betsy

[Marocc]

This forum is toxic. It's incredible because there so few active members.

I confused you with someone preaching the Bible earlier.

"Federal Conservative health critic Matt Jeneroux said telling people to stockpile can incite a lot of public concern, and that the government should be more specific about the steps people should take to prepare for a possible outbreak. 

Christine Elliot, the health minister of Ontario, said she believes stockpiling is unnecessary, and that people should continue to go about their lives while being cautious." 

https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/news/canada/coronavirus-fears-prompt-empty-shelves-as-canadians-follow-health-ministers-advice-to-stock-up-418391/?itm_source=parsely-api

Sometimes people say stupid things. That is not an official advice per se. The citizens must receive advice that is mutually agreed upon from those who understand the situation.

You said would I risk having someone.... Yes, why not? It is my duty to care for the people around me. It is also your duty to think of the community, not just yourself. If everyone collects stuff — now it's only being done by a small portion of people — bad situations will follow. Everyone knows that.

1 hour ago, betsy said:

they were near someone who's self-isolated

If they were behind a door of someone in self isolation, I really don't know if they'll be tested.

[WestCanMan]

Coronavirus is nothing like the Spanish Flu. It's almost the exact opposite.

Spanish Flu killed primarily young, healthy people by triggering their own immune system to go into hyperdrive. 

Coronavirus is killing primarily older people with underlying health issues. 

 

[Dougie93]

Coronavirus does the same thing, the immune system going into overdrive is a reaction to a novel virus for which the body has no antibodies to counter it.

The immune system goes into an explosive response to try to expel the virus by sheer force.

You drown in the fluids which your body is trying to use to flood the virus out.

Another vector is renal failure, people who didn't develop pneumonia so weren't symptomatic, but then just keeled over dead when their kidneys shut down.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Dougie93

[scribblet]

Well, we know it it is not a problem in Iran cos the head mullah today instructed all lranians to rub oil on their anus to prevent the beer virus.  So we are all safe.

Edited March 3, 2020 by scribblet

[Dougie93]

You know Iran is panicking when :  they released 54,000 prisoners from their prisons to try to prevent the spread.

[WestCanMan]

53 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Coronavirus does the same thing, the immune system going into overdrive is a reaction to a novel virus for which the body has no antibodies to counter it.

The immune system goes into an explosive response to try to expel the virus by sheer force.

You drown in the fluids which your body is trying to use to flood the virus out.

Another vector is renal failure, people who didn't develop pneumonia so weren't symptomatic, but then just keeled over dead when their kidneys shut down.

Wrong.

In a normal flu season, people who are already sick die from things which aren't flu-related, like kidney failure or pneumonia, or they get infections, etc

With the Spanish Flu the body's own immune system just produced too many cytokines and they cause severe inflammation. It was actually young people who were the most severely affected by the Spanish Flu. 

I don't just make this shit up Dougie. You can just google the Spanish Flu if you want.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

34 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You know Iran is panicking when :  they released 54,000 prisoners from their prisons to try to prevent the spread.

In Iran the people who are in jail are actually the good ones. 

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Wrong.

In a normal flu season, people who are already sick die from things which aren't flu-related, like kidney failure or pneumonia, or they get infections, etc

With the Spanish Flu the body's own immune system just produced too many cytokines and they cause severe inflammation. It was actually young people who were the most severely affected by the Spanish Flu. 

I don't just make this shit up Dougie. You can just google the Spanish Flu if you want.

 

 

The mechanism is the same, the Flu kills by immune system reactionary pneumonia, Coronavirus is the same.

I'm not suggesting you get too worked up about it, but all this happy talk about it being no big deal is premature.

Just because it's not the 1919 Flu doesn't mean it's not a pandemic, pandemic will grind things to a halt now even more than the Flu did in 1919.

Where this disease has broken out into community transmission, in Hubei province, the hospitals are overwhelmed, the bodies are piling up in the hallways.

It has killed a 29 year old doctor and a 34 year old doctor, so obviously when you are in close proximity to it, it kills the young and healthy too.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Dougie93