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Pipeline protestors need to be jailed


Argus

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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What is the price for breaking the laws though?  At a certain point the police have to enforce or they lose credibility.  A government that tolerates sabotage of railways and ports is a failed government.  

What precious little credibility the state or its police might have thought they had vanished on day 1.

The only thing a Liberal has ever done to jail a Canadian standing on principal was to lock up Andy McMechan for committing no crime whatsoever - just LEGALLY standing up to the Canadian Wheat Board's presumed government granted monopoly.

You need to look at this from an obvious and logical perspective: in the world of virtue-signaling globalists only white men can be jailed for such crimes.Visible minorities are free to seek refuge behind the idiocy that is Liberalism/liberalism.

On the subject of "no balls at all":   I lump Canadian business leaders in with the Liberal government.   If someone had this protest, they were obviously organized.  The organizers should be sued IMMEDIATELY, as well as whatever organizations in affiliation - for the business losses incurred.

I do a lot of business internationally, usually representing US interests.  When asked how to tell the difference between Canadians and Americans, I simply reply:  "If you want to tell them apart, just look between their legs.  The nice guys with no balls are the Canadians."

Edited by cannuck
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Sounds like you’re licking your chops at opportunities for annexation of Canada or hoping the economy and Canada’s national institutions fall apart in some form of shadenfreude.   Be careful what you wish for because Canada is the US’s biggest export market.  A lot of good, careful work has gone into building this country.  I think the constant disparaging of it on here is disgusting.  The vast majority of Canadians love Canada.  

I will tell you that a failed Canada will hurt a lot of people, probably the Indigenous the most, as they contribute the least in tax revenue yet receive funding for all sorts of things that non-Indigenous have to pay for themselves.  That’s the reality.  The US answer to the Indian question was Manifest Destiny and defeat in war.  The Indigenous here would learn a new meaning of law and order if the Yanks stepped in   

I too would like to see the Indian Act scrapped, the end of the “apartheid” reserve system (which is also in the US), and an end to privileged citizenship (Indian Status cards), but Canada’s First Nations don’t want to give it up.  So there’s the rub: These activists want to destroy the country and businesses that pay the freight for a system that they want to maintain and enhance.  Therein lies the ignorance.  

It’s not even about socialism or bigger handouts; it’s about anarcho-terror against the state that empowered these forces through government funding and Reconciliation.   It’s a slap in the face to a government that sincerely tried to reach out. If this kind of sabotage is the result, why would any sane political party reach out again?  

Reconciliation is indeed dead, killed by an unelected radical Indigenous minority and eco warriors.   Put Reconciliation on the shelf with constitutional reform.  The cure is worse than the disease.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

 I would have no compunction about crushing Canadian leftists under the tracks of a Leopard 2 Alteration 6 Modernized Canadian Main Battle Tank.

That wouldn't be legal tho, that would have to be done extra-judicially : coup d'etat.

Ease up their Patton-Rommel we live in what is called a democracy.

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Its true while the politicians dither it costs  business money I get that  however with due respect to that impatience  because it is costing huge amounts of business loss, the laws in Canada on the issue of land access with the railways is not by any means clear. The treaty wordings and confused interpretations in court are e a legal landmine of unresolved legal issues as to land access and rights and the Charter's wording obliges us to inherit and honour native treaties and laws and incorporate them so its not by any means an easy issue. So while the methods may be wrong to defend these rights, the arguments behind them are not necessarily wrong and natives could if they wanted go to court and get all kinds of injunctions tying this up in court for years causing far more harm than what is going on now for business which explains the reluctance of politicians to force the issue more accurately then turning this into a simplistic race issue suggesting minorities can break the law and whites can not.

 

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But for most Canadians and probably for most Indigenous this protest has nothing to do with race.  This is about a radical fringe that didn’t win their agenda through votes or court battles essentially sticking a wrench in the conveyor belt.  The point I was making is that all these noble and progressive protections, such as the Charter, treaty rights, and even our lower and higher courts, can be nullified if Canada becomes rendered unworkable and falls apart.   Then there is no funding of Aboriginal Affaires and no minority protections against an angry majority.  Right now Canada is ripe for a backlash to all this pandering to radicals, and if the economy deteriorates and tensions flare up high enough, the result won’t be benign.  Anything inconvenient or disruptive will be disposed of right away, but it may go much further than that.  Today’s bad days will look heavenly by comparison.  

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11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What is the price for breaking the laws though?  At a certain point the police have to enforce or they lose credibility.  A government that tolerates sabotage of railways and ports is a failed government.  

Absolutely. That's why I said figuratively speaking.  You and I agree on this because we both think they are all big babies who want their own way regardless of what the majority wants.  And clueless with it.  And we think the law is just.  You can't go blocking railway lines because you don't like pipelines. And a fine, or being bound over to keep the peace is all that any of them will get.  And as long as they stop doing what they are doing all is well.

Civil disobedience has levels, though, depending on where one is.  I doubt there is anyone on here who would not side with someone, somewhere who is breaking some law for some reason or another.

Edited by bcsapper
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4 hours ago, Rue said:

Ease up their Patton-Rommel we live in what is called a democracy.

We are losing our democracy. And where is the bearded one, prancing around africa and europe, trying to get that seat at the UN. So which means his hands are tied ,he can't shut the protests down. The CPC needs to get a leader quick, not in june,this could bring down the government.

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1st If this was about the environment, this pipeline would be built. The more NG we can ship to china, means they can start shutting down coal fired plants. But this is about consulting. In other words the hereditary chiefs are saying what is in it for me. That is what they mean by consulting. Time now to tell then you have 2 days to move out of the way, or this become a terrorist activity and will be treated as such.

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25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm more Nathan Bedford Forrest, and democracy is simply a tyranny of the majority.

Well without all those Canadian safeguards such as the Charter, it most certainly is.  Again, people won’t notice until the plant closes, the layoffs begin, the food prices spike (because the railway shipments don’t arrive), and the surly teen who whines about “the system” can’t get his lunch.  Laid off parents, dejected layabout teens, grocery stores half empty, wannabe shoppers suddenly broke.  At that point no one cares about several unelected grannies or the angry unkempt rebels at the burning garbage can by the tracks.  People will wish them dead. Mess with people’s livelihoods and Trump starts to look like Bernie Sanders.  Trudeau would have to be airlifted into exile.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well without all those Canadian safeguards such as the Charter, it most certainly is.  Again, people won’t notice until the plant closes, the layoffs begin, the food prices spike (because the railway shipments don’t arrive), and the surly teen who whines about “the system” can’t get his lunch.  Laid off parents, dejected layabout teens, grocery stores half empty, wannabe shoppers suddenly broke.

 

How can this still happen in a nation that has experienced it several times ?    Is government and business so unprepared that they cannot work around such impasses, whether from civil strife or natural disaster ?    

Regardless of what the natives do, this is a failure of government.

 

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Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

How can this still happen in a nation that has experienced it several times ?    Is government and business so unprepared that they cannot work around such impasses, whether from civil strife or natural disaster ?    

Regardless of what the natives do, this is a failure of government.

 

My point is simply that at some point, if left unchecked, the radicals will have an impact, and it will be far too late for dialogue.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

My point is simply that at some point, if left unchecked, the radicals will have an impact, and it will be far too late for dialogue.  

 

Failure begets failure....the natives have leverage because government and business are not prepared and lacks leadership...before poop hits the fan.

It is absurd that a dozen or so protesters can shut down national infrastructure on their terms while government dithers.

I recall that railroad tracks to Churchill were damaged and the American owners could not afford to restore service.   It took the natives to figure out how to get enough money to affect repair, not government.   

What the hell is government for if it cannot address such issues in a timely manner ?

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34 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well without all those Canadian safeguards such as the Charter, it most certainly is.  Again, people won’t notice until the plant closes, the layoffs begin, the food prices spike (because the railway shipments don’t arrive), and the surly teen who whines about “the system” can’t get his lunch.  Laid off parents, dejected layabout teens, grocery stores half empty, wannabe shoppers suddenly broke.  At that point no one cares about several unelected grannies or the angry unkempt rebels at the burning garbage can by the tracks.  People will wish them dead. Mess with people’s livelihoods and Trump starts to look like Bernie Sanders.  Trudeau would have to be airlifted into exile.  

The Trudeau Charter ain't worth the paper it's printed on, I wipe my ass with Canada's commie Charter and the CBC state propaganda arm it rode in on.

Speech banning, gun grabbing, freedom hating nanny police state, let it burn in a fire of its own making.

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21 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The Trudeau Charter ain't worth the paper it's printed on, I wipe my ass with Canada's commie Charter and the CBC state propaganda arm it rode in on.

Speech banning, gun grabbing, freedom hating nanny police state, let it burn in a fire of its own making.

It’s a day off, remember?  Go for a walk on your Wellington property with a blunt and enjoy.  Life is good.  

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On 2/13/2020 at 8:43 PM, bcsapper said:

Well that's just fine.  If no laws are being broken, none need to be enforced.  As long as we all agree that when they are, they should be.

Blocking the railroad is illegal. So yes, that needs to be enforced.

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6 hours ago, Rue said:

Its true while the politicians dither it costs  business money I get that  however with due respect to that impatience  because it is costing huge amounts of business loss, the laws in Canada on the issue of land access with the railways is not by any means clear.

No, the law is quite clear. The railroad is private property. Getting in its way is Mischief. So arrest people who get in it's way and charge them with Mischief. End of problem.

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13 hours ago, jacee said:

Perhaps it's a strong and necessary message to governments and business and industry.

It's better to negotiate. 

The duty of the Crown to consult ... still needs to be done.

They spent five years consulting and got agreement from all the elected chiefs and band councils, and the tribes also had a referendum. What more do you expect?

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A lot of the protestors don't give a damn about natives. They're the usual climate change doomsayers demanding an end to the fossil fuel industry, mostly made up of urban, upper and upper middle class females and various brainless progressive activist groups.

Protesters standing in solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs are only inflaming an already intense situation, and have disregarded the years of consultations conducted with First Nations along the pipeline route, says Ellis Ross, who served for 14 years on one of the 20 elected band councils that signed an agreement with Coastal GasLink.

“There’s a lot of people that aren’t from these communities, that aren’t Aboriginal, that are saying hereditary leadership has full authority, and they’re not doing it based on any facts. It would be like me saying that the elected leadership of B.C. and Canada has no authority, and it’s the Queen who has all authority,” said Ross, now the Liberal MLA for Skeena, B.C. “That would be a very destabilizing remark to make. It’s a very irresponsible remark to make.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/who-are-the-protesters-theres-a-lot-of-people-that-arent-from-these-communities-that-arent-aboriginal

Edited by Argus
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8 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, the law is quite clear. The railroad is private property. Getting in its way is Mischief. So arrest people who get in it's way and charge them with Mischief. End of problem.

The point is, they don't recognize the Charter or our laws, they say they never ceded the land, it is their land so we are trespassing as their laws supercede  ours.  this needs to be addressed once and for all. 

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Jonathan Kay lays out just how we've come to this, with years of paternalistic, patronizing government congratulating themselves on their sensitivity, and paying lip service to ridiculous native claims about being 'nations', while tolerating all the crap from activists about what a horrible country Canada is and how we've committed 'genocide' on natives (whose population continues to increase somehow).  Now even trying to disagree or push back against claims made by natives is seen as sacrilege by liberals, which leaves them helpless at doing anything to control the situation which currently exists. How can you show leadership while constantly genuflecting?

If you find yourself astounded by the current situation in Canada, whereby protesters have been allowed to shut down a rail network that remains a backbone of passenger travel and industrial transport (and whose coast-to-coast completion in 1885 became a symbol of national unity), it’s useful to revisit the accumulation of symbolic gestures that have steadily destroyed the moral authority of our governments to push back at any assertion of Indigenous rights and grievances. For years, our leaders offered reflexive acquiescence to increasingly expansive claims that Canada remains a white supremacist dystopia, culminating in last year’s campaign to convince us not only that modern Canada is a “genocide” state, but that even the act of expressing disagreement with this description makes you a sort of metaphorical train conductor on the rails to Canadian Dachau. Having publicly tattooed their guilty settler souls with every imaginable hashtag, our leaders now apparently find themselves stopped from restoring the rule of law.

The push to recognize Indigenous sovereignty over ancestral lands stretches back generations, an effort rooted in very real constitutional and treaty rights. But what I am describing here is not this formally bounded legal campaign, but rather the more general insistence that the entire country remains stained by original sin, and so must be purified by an open-ended, quasi-spiritual process of “decolonization.” This project began in earnest in 2017 as a counter-reaction to the perceived jingoism of the Canada 150 celebrations. Within the rarified corners of the literary and arts milieus (in which I found myself embedded at the time), decolonization quickly became a sort of state religion, complete with decolonization-themed sensitivity training and confession rituals.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jonathan-kay-railroading-of-elected-bands-betrays-progressive-hypocrisy

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