Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

[Argus]

1 minute ago, scribblet said:

The point is, they don't recognize the Charter or our laws, they say they never ceded the land, it is their land so we are trespassing as their laws supercede  ours.  this needs to be addressed once and for all. 

We have plenty of stupid white people who say the same things. They usually call themselves something like "Freemen on the Land" and claim to be immune from all existing laws. What we do is put them in jail.

[Dougie93]

Only Elizabeth Windsor has claim on these lands, by the Treaty of Paris 1763, the basis of all Canadian constitutional law.

The Canadian public doesn't own any of it, as Canada is not a republic.

Canada's Queen v. the Indian Kings : stalemate, there is no legal high ground for Canada, and the Indians will win any war which Canada bumbles into with them.

[Dougie93]

The Canadian police are even refusing to enforce a court order from the bench.

That's cause they know that Canada is softer than warm baby shit and as such the Indians could bring Canada to its knees in a matter of weeks, without even firing a shot.

The military is also aware, and they tell the government how it is ; you don't have the troops, you don't have the equipment, if you rile the Indians up into a frenzy, they will be able to run circles around you, along the lines of communications from coast to coast, and then you'll have to ask Washington to bail you out.

The Mohawks at Tyendenaga are just giving them a little taste of how easy it would be to grind Canada to a halt, but this is just a warning shot across the bow.

These are the "friendly" Mohawks btw, the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte are docile compared to their brethren on the Quebec side.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

It's actually good thing that Johnny Vance is the CDS

Yes, he is a political operator, yes, he is ruthless, he will throw people under the bus in a political knife fight.

That being said, when it comes to operations, he is a consummate professional, he's not a parade square soldier, he knows what he's doing in the field.

If there is a contact, Johnny Vance is the kind of General I would want running things, as opposed to the purely political nabobs who are often chosen to be CDS

The purely political nabobs are the ones who will get themselves into trouble, overreach from their offices in Ottawa throwing gasoline on the fire.

General Vance knows that this would be Kobayashi Maru for Canada, and so Canada would have to extricate itself very carefully in a climb down.

Brian Mulroney and Gen. DeChastelain executed this tasking rather well back in the 1990 : can't have any shooting down there, just wait them out

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

The Crown is the state in Canada.  All Crown lands are controlled by the provinces and feds. This is constitutional, signed off by the Queen, so stop that pitch.  The monarch may one day not play even a symbolic role in Canada.   I like the royal traditions, but a post-Liz monarchy looks a bit beleaguered these days and is far from the considerations of most Canadians who propose and enact legislation through their elected representatives, period.

The ritualistic shaming of the country of Canada has been perhaps the most damaging result of this government’s obsession with apologies, inquiries, and endless consultations with people who hate the country and see no value in fixing it.  We have been handed scripted land acknowledgments on which there was no consultation.  Did anyone seriously think there wouldn’t be political implications for this?   Repeat the party line long enough and soon there is no space left for individuals to question.

With the notion of unceded territory comes an assumption that there is a unitary traceable original owner   My guess is that if we dug into the history of many existing treaties, we’d discover that the tribes at the signing ceremonies had displaced other peoples before them   Some would have found it a coup to sell something they never laid claim to until someone suggested buying it.

Any form of territorial claim based on race is by definition exclusive of other races and creates social and economic pressure to keep the race pure, incentivized by tax breaks, free land, and Aboriginal Status.  It’s unhealthy apartheid that entrenches privilege and dependence on outside support, because the very nature of the privilege, ownership without investment in the land by its occupants, is doomed to live at the whim of taxpayers and outside interference.  What’s more, apart from signing the cheque, the outsiders who write it can have no input into changing this broken system, since providing it is more outside “colonial” interference.

We Canadians don’t own any of it, apart from maintaining our legal commitments.  Today’s Canadians didn’t create this set-up yet are beholden to a legacy that no sensible non-Indigenous person would want.  I don’t think it’s good for Indigenous people either, but the incentives for them to keep it going are real, paid for by Canadian taxpayers.

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

You can look it up if you don't believe me, Elizabeth Windsor is the legal title holder of all the lands in Canada, I don't own my land, I simply free hold.

Written right in the Canada Act 1982, in black & white.

[Dougie93]

See, this is what caused the War of Independence.

It wasn't taxes, it wasn't the stamp act, those were by products of the larger conflict.

That conflict being that the British Crown was protecting its Indian military allies from its own subjects in the American colonies.

The British Americans wanted to settle to the Ohio Valley, the British Crown was preventing this on behalf of the Indians,

That is when Major George Washington and the Virginia Company invaded Nouvelle France to incite a world war which led to the war between them and the Crown.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 My guess is that if we dug into the history of many existing treaties, we’d discover that the tribes at the signing ceremonies had displaced other peoples before them  

Sounds like a prescription for maintaining this status quo.

Someone has to break the cycle of self-justifying apologetics so why not us?

[Dougie93]

This by the way is how Oka happened as well

It wasn't the government of Canada which picked a fight with the Mohawks over a golf course.

It was Canada's revolutionary Dixieland, Quebec, which picked the fight with the Mohawks, totally out of the control of Ottawa.

[Zeitgeist]

18 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You can look it up if you don't believe me, Elizabeth Windsor is the legal title holder of all the lands in Canada, I don't own my land, I simply free hold.

Written right in the Canada Act 1982, in black & white.

Yes but it’s not for the monarch’s personal use.  She cannot collect rent on it or take a political position on its use. Its use and control resides entirely with the federal and provincial governments.  

“Today, in Commonwealth realms such as Canada and Australia, crown land is considered public landand is apart from the monarch's private estate.”  Wikipedia 

 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes but it’s not for the monarch’s personal use.

A canard which evades the point that the Queen is Canada and Canada is the Queen and this has real world effects on the ground, it's not ceremonial, it's the only rule of law you got.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sounds like a prescription for maintaining this status quo.

Someone has to break the cycle of self-justifying apologetics so why not us?

Land claims are settled through the courts.  

I’m not suggesting reducing funding of Aboriginal Affaires.  I’m merely stating what’s glaringly obvious and important: Self-government without self-financing (collection of taxes to pay for services) isn’t true self-government.  As long as a son or daughter lives rent-free and is at least partly fed and financed by a parent, there is no true independence.  Such arrangements often breed contempt because of the “paternalistic” behaviour of the parent.  I wonder why?  If any part of the country wants to cecede, that is a legal right in Canada.  With cecession comes the end of Canadian taxpayer funding, however, and sometimes there are federally/provincially owned assets.  Ask Quebec.  

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

A canard which evades the point that the Queen is Canada and Canada is the Queen and this has real world effects on the ground, it's not ceremonial, it's the only rule of law you got.

Well the US adopted British common law.  Those precedents remained after the Revolution.  I’m not suggesting revolution.  I do, however, know that the monarch could be peacefully removed from our parliamentary process.  I’m not suggesting it happen.  It doesn’t need to.  Democracy is live and well, but I worry about whether our weak-kneed Liberal government will ensure that our institutions enforce our laws, no matter how sensitive the issues.   

Edited February 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...  Democracy is live and well, but I worry about whether our weak-kneed Liberal government will ensure that our institutions enforce our laws, no matter how sensitive the issues.   

 

But Justin Trudeau assured all Canadians that the nation fiercely defends the "rule of law"...so what happened ?   /s

 

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well the US adopted British common law.  Those precedents remained after the Revolution.  I’m not suggesting revolution.  I do, however, know that the monarch could be peacefully removed from our parliamentary process.  I’m not suggesting it happen.  It doesn’t need to.  Democracy is live and well, but I worry about whether our weak-kneed Liberal government will ensure that our institutions enforce our laws, no matter how sensitive the issues.   

Canada goes with the monarch, there is no such thing as the Republic of Canada and there never will be.

The idea that the provinces could agree on a new constitution is delusional, you can't split the baby, you can have the Queen of Canada, or a republic of something else, but that republic will not be Canada anymore, don't kid yourself. 

[Dougie93]

Even when Canada collapses under the weight of its absurdities in the face the Information Age revolution, the newly independent Ontario will still not be a republic.

Canada is not like Australia, Canada is not like New Zealand, being the only Confederation of the British Empire, Canada is actually a collection of Australia's and New Zealand's.

Those jurisdictions will persist after Canada has dissolved itself, but they won't be republics, they will be Dominions still, they simply won't be in Confederation anymore.

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well the US adopted British common law.

 

True, but just guess how long such protesters would last on U.S. railroad tracks ?

During the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, the "government" used bulldozers, pepper spray,  police dogs, and national guard troops to evict all the happy protesters.

...because that's how we roll down here with "British common law"...American style.

The pipeline was completed in April 2017.

[Dougie93]

Now, after Ontario has freed itself from this farcical fake country, it becomes like an Australia and then in theory could become a republic.

It won't happen tho, because Ontarians are a pack of knee jerk nanny police state authoritarians, and the Crown is the best mechanism for imposing that sort of regime.

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada goes with the monarch, there is no such thing as the Republic of Canada and there never will be.

The idea that the provinces could agree on a new constitution is delusional, you can't split the baby, you can have the Queen of Canada, or a republic of something else, but that republic will not be Canada anymore, don't kid yourself. 

Canada is the name of the collective of sub national jurisdictions and the federal representatation that oversees it.  That doesn’t rest on the shoulders of one person, not the Queen, not Julie Payette, not Justin Trudeau.  Institutions are the country: courts, infrastructure, levels of government, police, the Commons, etc.   They are what count.  

What I find sad about this situation of unruly protest is that in the end the public could decide to come down hard.  I’m not even talking about putting down the protests.  I’m talking primarily about funding.  That’s the problem with dependence.  It’s like a tenant complaining about a free room and the landlord responds, “No one is keeping you here.”  

“But then I have to pay a much higher rent elsewhere.”

...

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is the name of the collective of sub national jurisdictions and the federal representatation that oversees it. 

Orly?  

I'm glad I made it out of the army alive then, because a "collective of sub national jurisdictions" is nothing worth killing nor dying for.

[scribblet]

Some context on Wet’suwet’en in this column. Two hereditary chiefs at the forefront of opposition to the CGL pipeline ran for elected chief of Witset First Nation  – and lost

 

Where are the solidarity protests for the majority who support jobs and prosperity, why are their voices not heard. 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-where-are-the-solidarity-protests-for-the-first-nations-that-support/

The voices of band members from 20 First Nations along the Coastal GasLink project route who want it to continue – those who have indicated, through elections or other means, that they want construction on the natural gas pipeline to move ahead – have been eclipsed by the views of a small group of Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs, who hold jurisdiction over just a portion of the land the pipeline will cover.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Orly?  

I'm glad I made it out of the army alive then, because a "collective of sub national jurisdictions" is nothing worth killing nor dying for.

Oh stop.  There’s a lot to love about the country. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Oh stop.  There’s a lot to love about the country. 

Oh beautiful,  for spacious skies,  for amber waves of a sub national jurisdiction . . .

Nope.  Doesn't work.

F@ck Canada.

God Bless America, God save the Queen. 

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Oh beautiful,  for spacious skies,  for amber waves of a sub national jurisdiction . . .

Nope.  Doesn't work.

F@ck Canada.

God Bless America, God save the Queen. 

So what, you think Canada is just a British colony?  Or a US protectorate?  F@ck that! 

Canada is an idea. So is America, UK...

Edited February 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So what, you think Canada is just a British colony?  Or a US protectorate?  F@ck that! 

Canada is an idea. So is America, UK...

No, Canada is not an idea, that's you imposing the American template unto Canada because you don't have a template of your own which comports with your liberal values.

Canada is simply an agreement, to keep the French in, the Americans out,  and the Indians down, thrown together in a panic over a few weeks, in the wake of the Fenian Raids.

Canada is a racist apartheid anachronism of the British Empire, a zombie legacy project of imperialist adventure, propped up by America so it doesn't degenerate into Mexico North; love it or leave it as you would say.

"America,  er I mean Canada is an idea" is the essence of Americanization,  Manifest Destiny in effect.

Canadians don't know the story of their own people, they are blinded by staring into the American Hurly Burly, which incorporates them effortlessly therein, to include you, obviously.

Not that I'm complaining, take the poison apple, please do.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dougie93