Canada without the West

August1991 · February 9, 2020

While walking home today, in the snow, I wondered about this. Let Saskatchewan, Alberta, northern BC decide their own affairs.

As it happens, the GDP per capita of Alberta is about $80,000 and Quebec, about $40,000. And indeed, there is equalization payments.

But money is not the issue.

==

Without Western Canada, Central Canada could create a civilized modern multicultural, bilingual State - a model for the world.

Zeitgeist · February 9, 2020

You’re stuck with Confederation. Love it or leave it.

August1991 · February 9, 2020

35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re stuck with Confederation. Love it or leave it.

But that's the question.

I wonder if "Canada" would be better if we didn't have the West (Albertans etc) at all.

Edited February 9, 2020 by August1991

Zeitgeist · February 9, 2020

No fuck that. Canada is taking over the world. It has to. Only sane place left.

cannuck · February 9, 2020

Western separation would require IMHO everything from Thunder Bay to the West Coast. People in Nortern Ontario hate the East almost as much as we do. Yeah, the druggies of BC lower mainland would be tough to swallow, but it would be our albatross. Since all we get from Ontario is grief and looney leftwing politics (not that there hasn't been NDP governments in ALL of the Western provinces - but we are mostly cured of that ailment now), we would be free to source stuff directly from the US that we now waste billion$$ and a lot of time sending from the "distributors" in Toronto down the only road connecting us to our biggest problem. We pretty much get everything else from China, thus the need to keep Port of Vancouver.

Argus · February 9, 2020

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

While walking home today, in the snow, I wondered about this. Let Saskatchewan, Alberta, northern BC decide their own affairs.

As it happens, the GDP per capita of Alberta is about $80,000 and Quebec, about $40,000. And indeed, there is equalization payments.

But money is not the issue.

==

Without Western Canada, Central Canada could create a civilized modern multicultural, bilingual State - a model for the world.

Without Quebec we'd be a lot richer, a lot more united. Without the tribal vote of Quebecers, who despise the rest of Canada and refuse to vote for anyone but a Quebecer unless none is available we'd have far better leadership too. I'd way rather keep the West and throw Quebec out on its ass. What has Quebec contributed to confederation in the last fifty years but endless whining and sniveling and complaints and demands for ever more subsidies for its inefficient economy? What use is Quebec to Canada?

Edited February 9, 2020 by Argus

Nefarious Banana · February 9, 2020

Quebec is the cancer of Canada . . . .

Manitoba west would be a very viable country in a decade. Eastern seaport at Churchill for access to European markets, Vancouver & Prince Rupert for the Asian markets. Food and fuel . . . we have it all. With a 'tight' country as the west would be . . . investment money wouldn't be scared off or discouraged. There'll never be anything as long as Quebec is involved.

Moonlight Graham · February 9, 2020

14 hours ago, August1991 said:

Without Western Canada, Central Canada could create a civilized modern multicultural, bilingual State - a model for the world.

Canada is already a multicultural, bilingual state.

National unity has always been a problem when the central government has tried to impose itself on the provinces. The key is unity to give the provinces the autonomy to determine their own destiny. That's all that anyone has ever wanted. So let AB do whatever it wants with its oil and have the central gov leave them alone. And let QC to its own devices.

eyeball · February 9, 2020

22 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

So let AB do whatever it wants with its oil and have the central gov leave them alone. And let QC to its own devices.

Sounds good in theory but... why should Alberta's oil be treated any differently than BC's fish?

In any case I notice Ottawa can do whatever it wants with Alberta's oil including piping it thru and over Ottawa's salmon habitat.

Abies · February 9, 2020

That arrangement would leave the central provinces at the mercy to provinces with access to bodies of water for shipping.

Zeitgeist · February 9, 2020

Alberta’s biggest problem is British Columbia. The most radical environmentalists and anti-resource development Indigenous activists are in B.C., so western separation doesn’t solve that problem. Much of BC’s new wealth is imported wealth. The new residents there have little interest in forestry or resource development, but they may have a pile of money earned elsewhere, allowing them to retire in luxury.

It’s true that Quebec can be a roadblock, for example, in the case of preventing an Energy East oil pipeline, but that doesn’t change if the west separates. In fact, national projects become more difficult to achieve, because the federal government has inter-jurisdictional authority. The federal government has also contributed immensely to national projects, such as TransMountain. The federal government does need to stop layering on regulation and consultation. It’s clear that too many of the “consulting” parties will never support pipeline development, so stop asking radicals for permission.

On another note, why are some provinces so profoundly self-interested while others, such as Ontario, care so much about the well-being of the country beyond provincial borders? That’s the real iniquity in my opinion.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist

Moonlight Graham · February 9, 2020

47 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sounds good in theory but... why should Alberta's oil be treated any differently than BC's fish?

In any case I notice Ottawa can do whatever it wants with Alberta's oil including piping it thru and over Ottawa's salmon habitat.

Why shouldn't BC have control over their fish?

eyeball · February 9, 2020

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why shouldn't BC have control over their fish?

I don't know why we shouldn't but Confederation is why we don't. Confederation is also why Alberta has control over it's oil. Albertans actually have more control over what British Columbians can do with Ottawa's fish than British Columbians have over Alberta's oil.

Can see how these contradictions and hypocrisy might grate?

Edited February 9, 2020 by eyeball

jacee · February 10, 2020

11 hours ago, Argus said:

I'd way rather keep the West and throw Quebec out on its ass.

I'd way rather keep Quebec and throw you out West on your ass.

Edited February 10, 2020 by jacee

bush_cheney2004 · February 10, 2020

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I don't know why we shouldn't but Confederation is why we don't.

Because most of BC is unceded, occupied territory.

eyeball · February 10, 2020

25 minutes ago, jacee said:

I'd way rather keep Quebec and throw you out West on your ass.

Hey! What makes you think we want him?

If there's anything more alienating for a western Canadian it's the spectacle of Ottawa plowing Alberta's oil thru us. A national energy program of a different sort.

eyeball · February 10, 2020

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because most of BC is unceded, occupied territory.

No, it's because Confederation left Ottawa in charge of oceans and any fisheries thereof.

You're having enough of a struggle trying to understand your own country. You should probably master driving in your own lane before crossing into other's.

Edited February 10, 2020 by eyeball

bush_cheney2004 · February 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, it's because Confederation left Ottawa in charge of oceans and any fisheries thereof.

You're having enough of a struggle trying to understand your own country. You should probably master driving in your own lane before crossing into other's.

No, it's too much fun to give it right back.

Not your land...not your fish.

eyeball · February 10, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not your land...not your fish.

Glad to see you finally get it.

You're welcome.

bush_cheney2004 · February 10, 2020

Just now, eyeball said:

Glad to see you finally get it.

You're welcome.

Always happy to help.

Zeitgeist · February 10, 2020

Just now, eyeball said:

Glad to see you finally get it.

You're welcome.

Then whose is it? Many peoples passed through these territories over thousands of years. Many wars and displacements...

eyeball · February 10, 2020

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Then whose is it?

Humanity's.

Just don't tell Klaatu.

cannuck · February 10, 2020

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

On another note, why are some provinces so profoundly self-interested while others, such as Ontario, care so much about the well-being of the country beyond provincial borders? That’s the real iniquity in my opinion.

Ontario does that because it is the seat of the Federal government and the home of the ultra-left wing media. They have learned that they can pay for their virtue signalling by taxing the crap out of the productive economies of the West.