Federal Conservative Leader

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Stay on topic.  Avoid thread drift. 

[jacee]

14 hours ago, Argus said:

OAS and GIS are paid for through the taxes of Canadians. Why do we let the government take our money to pay for these pensions on behalf of the elderly? Because they're OUR elderly. Because we have a sense that we belong to a community with shared values and sense of shared identity. These are foreigners. I see no reason to be paying for their health care or their pensions.

To clarify, you want a Conservative leader who will deny health care and seniors' benefits to all first generation immigrants, because they're "foreigners"? Or only those in the country for a specified time?

How exactly would you define who qualifies, and when, as belonging to our "community with shared values and sense of shared identity." ? When they become citizens? After 10 years here? 20 years? What would be your criteria? 

I just don't yet see how the Conservative leader of your choice could accommodate your wishes in platform or  policy. What would such policy say? 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by jacee

[scribblet]

I don't believe he said he would deny these things to all first generation immigrants, your words, not his.   I believe he is saying and I agree, that sponsored elderly parents/grandparents should not be able to collect OAS/GIS if they haven't contributed by working and paying taxes.   If they have never worked or paid into the system then IMO they should not receive any pension, but our system does allow for them to get a portion depending on the no. of years resident. 

Sponsors are responsible for them financially for a number of years but they will get free health care after the required wait period (90 days in Ont.)   IMO the sponsors should be required to pay a monthly or yearly fee to cover health care costs,  as people who have not contributed anything to the country should not be a burden to all tax payers.   Canada is already overburdened by tens of thousands we really don't need to compound the problem. 

The burden to taxpayers for free health care may not be too readily noticeable now but the Trudeau regime is planning on increasing their  immigration targets including family reunification, so it will become more noticeable, and if anyone hasn't noticed, our health care system is very much overburdened now.

 

 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, jacee said:

To clarify, you want a Conservative leader who will deny health care and seniors' benefits to all first generation immigrants, because they're "foreigners"?

Immigrants presumably work. Elderly immigrants do not. In Australia, you need to buy them private health insurance, and the cost of a visa to bring them in starts at $6,000 and goes up as high as $40,000. Sounds reasonable to me. I also don't think they should be eligible for any government services. Their children are sponsoring them here to stay with them. Let them. They should not get pensions or welfare. If they can't afford to live here and their kids can't or won't provide for them then they should go home.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Argus

[scribblet]

OK, about the OP and the leader...    I wouldn't normally post anything from the far left Tyee and writer Michael Harris who is one of the most intolerant far left paranoid wing nuts ever.. Could Harper be making a come back.  Is he onto something, IMO no, Harper is not planning on a comeback.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2019/12/12/Harper-Comeback/?utm_source=weekly&fbclid=IwAR1_4TNzoOMz1pzFKDlGV2laJdaWu4FgbmE107Njq1ZGzo5k-6p8n4ET2kw i

[-1=e^ipi]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:29 AM, Rue said:

I contend you  advocate on behalf of anything the People's Republic of China  tells you to say on this forum. So your bias against Harper is transparent. He stood up to China and you now feel it is your patriotic duty to slag him with name calling. Oh say your raising Chong's name was based on his "qualifications". Got it.  Hey no problem. People love China, Turkey, Trump on this board. We all have our biases. I love Tonga.

1. I do not support the Chinese communist party.

2. I don't support patriotism.

3. Please don't make unsupported inferences.

[Army Guy]

14 hours ago, jacee said:

To clarify, you want a Conservative leader who will deny health care and seniors' benefits to all first generation immigrants, because they're "foreigners"? Or only those in the country for a specified time?

How exactly would you define who qualifies, and when, as belonging to our "community with shared values and sense of shared identity." ? When they become citizens? After 10 years here? 20 years? What would be your criteria? 

I just don't yet see how the Conservative leader of your choice could accommodate your wishes in platform or  policy. What would such policy say? 

 

We already have rules that dictate how long you have to be in province before getting a Medicare card, and able to use the provincial health care system....we do this to our own citizens when the move to another province. When I was in the military every time I got posted my family would have to wait a almost a full year to get full coverage, and when I released from the military I had to wait a just over 6 months even though I had lived in the province for 10 years with military coverage...Lets not even talk about getting a family doctor, I waited well over 4 years before I got taken on for a doctor....and I was consider a diabetic at the time which gave me some what a leg up...

[jacee]

22 hours ago, Argus said:

Immigrants presumably work. Elderly immigrants do not.

I also don't think they should be eligible for any government services. Their children are sponsoring them here to stay with them. Let them. They should not get pensions or welfare.

 

For someone with such strong anti-immigrant feelings, you really don't seem to know much about it:

Sponsored elder immigrants are supported by sponsors. They often care for grandchildren, so both parents can work, or they may also work in a family business, etc.

They do not get "pensions" - CPP - unless they work and contribute. Sponsored immigrants are supported by sponsors, and do not get "welfare".  

All Canadian seniors get OAS & GIS if they meet the residency requirement  (10 years? 20 years? Not sure. Look it up.).

Quote

If they can't afford to live here and their kids can't or won't provide for them then they should go home.

Yes, Argus, their sponsors do provide for them when necessary. That is exactly what sponsored immigration means. 

And I doubt that any potential Conservative leader is going to change those current rules that are already in place, meet even your strict requirements, and are working well. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by jacee

[jacee]

11 hours ago, Army Guy said:

We already have rules that dictate how long you have to be in province before getting a Medicare card, and able to use the provincial health care system....we do this to our own citizens when the move to another province. When I was in the military every time I got posted my family would have to wait a almost a full year to get full coverage, and when I released from the military I had to wait a just over 6 months even though I had lived in the province for 10 years with military coverage...Lets not even talk about getting a family doctor, I waited well over 4 years before I got taken on for a doctor....and I was consider a diabetic at the time which gave me some what a leg up...

Wow. Something wrong there. That isn't right.

[SpankyMcFarland]

John Baird is not someone I considered, more famous for his cat pics than anything else these days:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/john-bairds-post-politics-twitter-feed-is-a-bizarre-menagerie-of-cat-photos-simpsons-references

 

 

 

[jacee]

11 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

John Baird is not someone I considered, more famous for his cat pics than anything else these days:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/john-bairds-post-politics-twitter-feed-is-a-bizarre-menagerie-of-cat-photos-simpsons-references

 

Well, that would get rid of the religious-right Conservative votes. Lol 

[Rue]

16 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

1. I do not support the Chinese communist party.

2. I don't support patriotism.

3. Please don't make unsupported inferences.

1. Oh please.

2. I never discussed whether you are a patriot or not.

3. Your words on this forum in regards to Hong Kong and other issues speak very loudly who you support and why

4. This is not about you or your previous posts on Hong Kong or defending the People's Republic of China's behaviour.

5. This thread is about the next Tory leader. Whoever he or she is, many of us on this forum would hope they have a spinal cord and tell China to go stuff itself.

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

For someone with such strong anti-immigrant feelings, you really don't seem to know much about it:

Sponsored elder immigrants are supported by sponsors.

Except when their sponsors renege. In that case we send the sponsored immigrants back home let the sponsored immigrants go on welfare.
And to repeat, we pay hundreds of thousands for their health care. The deal we all make is we pay into health care but most of us rarely use it when young. Then when we get older it's there for us. These people have never paid into it and never will. They should be required to purchase private health care like they do in Australia.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Well, that would get rid of the religious-right Conservative votes. Lol 

You got something against gay men?

[Shady]

On 12/17/2019 at 8:51 AM, jacee said:

To clarify, you want a Conservative leader who will deny health care and seniors' benefits to all first generation immigrants, because they're "foreigners"? Or only those in the country for a specified time?

Cool.  In Ontario, anyone new to the province has 3 month waiting period before they're eligible for health care.  It's been that way for years and years.

[Shady]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

Wow. Something wrong there. That isn't right.

No, it's completely logical and reasonable.  You probably just don't understand.

[jacee]

47 minutes ago, Argus said:

Except when their sponsors renege. In that case we send the sponsored immigrants back home let the sponsored immigrants go on welfare.

 

Links please? 

[jacee]

48 minutes ago, Argus said:

You got something against gay men?

No, I have something against Christian homophobes. 

If there's a gay Conservative leader who's out and openly married to a man, the Christian homophobes will likely desert the Party.  Lol 

Edited December 18, 2019 by jacee

[Argus]

3 hours ago, jacee said:

Links please? 

If you are a permanent resident and you are being sponsored by your partner, your permanent resident status is not affected if the sponsorship breaks down. 

http://owjn.org/2017/05/sponsorship-breakdown-what-will-happen-to-my-immigration-status/#6

[jacee]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

If you are a permanent resident and you are being sponsored by your partner, your permanent resident status is not affected if the sponsorship breaks down. 

http://owjn.org/2017/05/sponsorship-breakdown-what-will-happen-to-my-immigration-status/#6

That applies to "spouse or partner", not elderly parents. Nonetheless, I would assume that the same rules would apply:  

Your sponsor is usually required to provide for your basic needs for three years after you get permanent resident status, even if you separate from her/him. Therefore, if you leave your sponsor during those three years, and receive social assistance, your sponsor will owe that money to the government.

You may also be able to apply for spousal support or child support from your spouse or partner.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

That applies to "spouse or partner", not elderly parents. Nonetheless, I would assume that the same rules would apply:  

Your sponsor is usually required to provide for your basic needs for three years after you get permanent resident status, even if you separate from her/him. Therefore, if you leave your sponsor during those three years, and receive social assistance, your sponsor will owe that money to the government.

You may also be able to apply for spousal support or child support from your spouse or partner.

The government is very bad at collecting money from sponsors who renege.

[Nefarious Banana]

Ahhhhh . . . . . . has Scheer left the building ?

[-1=e^ipi]

9 hours ago, Rue said:

3. Your words on this forum in regards to Hong Kong and other issues speak very loudly who you support and why

4. This is not about you or your previous posts on Hong Kong or defending the People's Republic of China's behaviour.

What are you going on about? I support the Hong Kong protestors. Are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else?

[G-MAN]

This tread went south fairly quick lol.

My pick for leader is Pierre Poilievre, mearly for his debate strength and performance in question period. He doesnt miss a beat and would likely embarrass JT in an election debate. Unfortunately him being from Alberta will probably be an attack angle for the cbc, when shilling and campaigning for their messiah.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, G-MAN said:

This tread went south fairly quick lol.

My pick for leader is Pierre Poilievre, mearly for his debate strength and performance in question period. He doesnt miss a beat and would likely embarrass JT in an election debate. Unfortunately him being from Alberta will probably be an attack angle for the cbc, when shilling and campaigning for their messiah.

He’s quite good but still very unknown to most Canadians.