Is China actually a Fascist regime?

[Argus]

An interesting perspective from Quillette, pointing out that while China might call itself Communist - much as Communist states in eastern Europe used to call themselves Democratic - it more closely resembles a Fascist state. What's more it is a Fascist state with imperialist ambitions spreading its influence around the world through whatever means it can. This includes influencing universities through access to China, and through the threat to withdraw large numbers of Chinese students, bribing politicians and opinion makers, and intimidating and threatening its overseas diaspora. All with very little opposition from western governments.

It is important to understand that China is a fascist dictatorship. The term “fascist” is now thrown around with such carelessness that it has lost most of its meaning outside the offices of a few historians or political science professors. But fascism, in its original early twentieth century incarnation, meant a political system defined by three attributes—authoritarianism, ethnonationalism, and an economic model in which capitalism co-existed with large state-directed industries and partnerships between the government and corporations.

China is an ethnonationalist, corporatist, authoritarian state. The government harasses, imprisons, or murders those who demand the right to vote. It engages in cultural genocide and seeks to make the Chinese dictatorship ideologically inseparable from the self-image of the Chinese people. It protects its domestic economy from foreign competition, subsidises all its important industries, mandates that government officials sit on the boards of all large companies, and does not allow independent labour unions. Despite the use of the word “communist” in both the name of the state and the name of its ruling elite, China is fascist. The label of communism is now merely a historical anomaly, relevant only to the extent that totalitarianism remains an underlying principle, the source code of a regime that has likely killed more people than any other in history.

https://quillette.com/2019/08/05/china-and-the-difficulties-of-dissent/

[BubberMiley]

It fits the definition of a fascist state by all measures. Still, I think I'd rather live in a pure fascist state than a kleptocracy like Russia.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

Still, I think I'd rather live in a pure fascist state than a kleptocracy like Russia.

China is not a kleptocracy? You think a benevolent fascist state exists because Trudeau, the radical socialist, said good things about the basic dictatorship of China?

And I thought Russia was THE fascist state itself, with anti LGBTQ laws and a megalomaniac leader, plus its constant boasting about its army and efficiency of its State?

[BubberMiley]

Who said anything about benevolent?

Yes, Russia is fascist too but it is controlled by the Russian mob, so it's even worse. That was my point. I don't recall mentioning Trudeau at all.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

Who said anything about benevolent?

You said you wouldn't live in a kleptocracy, which you qualify Russia as, which I agree totally. A word that totally opposes kleptocracy would mean a well spirited and good, benevolent regime. But China is the worse kind of kleptocracy in the whole world, has concentration camps where they brainwash millions of Uighurs, colonize Xinjiang, colonize Tibet, steal jobs and technologies from the world etc.

If anything, China is the worse in many aspects of what we criticize the West and Russia, except for overt military interventions.

China needs to be crushed to its knees, because it's a fascist regime. Just as Nazi Germany, the population, held hostage, or willfully wanting an impossible Chinese hegemony over the world will lose. The world, which is roughly 7 times China's population, matters more than them. So they will perish by their own sword eventually. They're having their worse economic years in decades and the worse riots/citizen uprisings since Tiananmen. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

Yes, Russia is fascist too but it is controlled by the Russian mob, so it's even worse. 

Literally, the Chinese mob is the most expanded in the world, has reach in every major cities on the planet, Vancouver is now Beijing of North America, and you say that Russians are worse?

Russia doesn't colonize us. China does it, and steal our hard earned money, and steal our places to live. China is the number 1 problem on the planet, biggest polluter too. A real cancer.

[BubberMiley]

25 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

You said you wouldn't live in a kleptocracy, which you qualify Russia as, which I agree totally. A word that totally opposes kleptocracy would mean a well spirited and good.

I didn't say China's system was totally opposed to Russia's. I just said, given a choice of murderous fascist dictatorships, I'd rather live in China than Russia. I would rather live in Russia than Saudi Arabia, and I would rather live in the U.S. out of all of them. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

I didn't say China's system was totally opposed to Russia's. I just said, given a choice of murderous fascist dictatorships, I'd rather live in China than Russia. I would rather live in Russia than Saudi Arabia, and I would rather live in the U.S. out of all of them. 

You have such a big mouth you wouldn't last a day on Chinese internet before you would get arrested, tortured, jailed, and maybe they'll decide to finish you clean.

You can literally make vlogs criticizing Russia and Putin, in Russia.

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

Whether communist or fascist, the Chinese government is a piece of shit and can go to hell.

[BubberMiley]

11 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

You have such a big mouth you wouldn't last a day on Chinese internet before you would get arrested, tortured, jailed, and maybe they'll decide to finish you clean.

You can literally make vlogs criticizing Russia and Putin, in Russia.

 

 

Yeah. So? I didn't say I was going.

But those Putin critics keep dying too. I don't know why you keep defending them.

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, BubberMiley said:

Yeah. So? I didn't say I was going.

But those Putin critics keep dying too. I don't know why you keep defending them.

You don't get that China is the bigger evil compared to Russia? You don't get that Russia minds its own sphere of influence, have spies, but that's it? China is everywhere, they colonize every big city on the planet. These guys are way more dangerous and a threat to Humanity. Human life for Chinese is like insect life. Not significant. You couldn't even pretend that it's the case in Russia.

Putin critics don't die actually. Just like because Epstein died, no one almost gets to die in the West because of their involvement in politics, it's way more subtle. Political opponents do, same as journalists rooting for them. Russia isn't a Democracy, it's a tyranny and working like Italy; mob-like system. But you Bubbermiley would get to live in Russia.

In China, you would be tortured to death, without any doubt in my imagination, in the first hours of you just browsing the web. You have no idea how China works, or buy into the Anti Russia narrative they are savages, which Chinese are toward enemies of the State and enemies of the Han race. China, in its current state, will face harsh consequences from the whole world.

[BubberMiley]

You have no idea what I know. And you particularly have no idea of all the people killed by Putin's mobsters for criticizing his regime.

They're both fascist, but only one of us is defending one of them.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

You have no idea what I know. And you particularly have no idea of all the people killed by Putin's mobsters for criticizing his regime.

They're both fascist, but only one of us is defending one of them.

Yes, Putin and his mobsters are much of a lesser threat than China.

Welcome to the real world. 

It's like comparing Pol Pot to Khrushchev, yes they were both far left extremists who killed their populace and opponents, but in the USSR, it was in a far lesser extent than in Cambodia. China is now a much bigger threat to Humanity than the Russians are.

[Rue]

On 8/11/2019 at 2:21 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

China is not a kleptocracy? You think a benevolent fascist state exists because Trudeau, the radical socialist, said good things about the basic dictatorship of China?

And I thought Russia was THE fascist state itself, with anti LGBTQ laws and a megalomaniac leader, plus its constant boasting about its army and efficiency of its State?

You ask me, fascism is the extreme of liberalism and anarchy the extreme of conservatism ... if we use those two terms fascist and conservative in their true Bentham and Burke definitional references.

Communism, socialism.... unless you have a n agrarian state or choose to live in a cult or closed of society like Mennonites. its  not real now is it. Every alleged socialist is really a liberal in the sense they want government control not grass roots cooperatives operating without need of government.

Trudeau is just a spoiled rich boy. He is too stupif to have an actual ideology of any kin other than that he feels entitled and acts like some divine Prince.

China is a totalitarian regime. Its a centralized government controlled web to keep 2 billion from killing each other.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Rue

[SpankyMcFarland]

It’s certainly close to that. There’s still so much controversy among academics as to what fascism means

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

and whether it can be applied beyond a twentieth century European context, but if we accept the basic recipe above of authoritianism, corporatism and ethnonationalism, its there or thereabouts and should be a deeply alarming prospect for the rest of us, far more than Mao’s China. Chinese ethnonationalism and authoritarianism were unusually strong even before the communists arrived; now capitalism has given that country the potential to dominate the world and bring her values to our doorstep. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

Anyone else think it would be a really smart idea to build a pipeline to tidewater and help fuel China's growth?  Maybe this time they'll try to become more like us out of gratitude. OTOH we could go to all the expense of building the pipeline only to have China tell us they don't need our steenkin' oil because of the Meng Wanzhou/Huawei issue.

[Dougie93]

If the Chinese were fascists, we'd already be in a shooting war with them, the Communists are authoritarian and totalitarian,  but they are much more practical than the fascists.

Bear in mind that Communism is an end state, it's a post scarcity utopia that will be arrived at someday in the future, in the meantime there is no Communism, just the pursuit of Communism, it's aspirational.

The fascist utopia is not aspirational.  The fascist utopia is something you are going to impose, right now, by force of arms.

The fascists are aggressively expansionist, they seek resolution by decisive force, not one step back.

The Communists play the long game, their preferred method is infiltration and overthrow from within.

The Chinese are not that militarily aggressive at all, they rattle sabers, but without actually forcing the issue.

The Chinese instead are going around trying to co-opt by non military means, which is not fascistic, everything the fascists do is by naked force.

The fascists come to fight the doomsday war, either they will march over your bodies or you will march over theirs, the Communists consider that to be madness.

The Communists doctrine is to only strike when they know they can win, if not, carry on with infiltration and undermining.

The Communists in Beijing are simply adopting some western capitalist methods, where suitable,  to support their long term objective of achieving Communism as an utopian end state, with China at the center of this New World Order.

They're not out to annihilate you, they don't want to impose a holocaust on you, they are just playing the long game, wherein you will capitulate to them in the end,  nary a shot fired.

A fascist China wouldn't try to hide Tienanmen Square from their population, a fascist China would have a day of celebration for it, proudly proclaiming the crushing of the untermensch under the tank tracks.

A fascist China would crush the protests in Hong Kong without quarter nor mercy, they would send in the tanks right away, jumping at the opportunity to employ maximum force as a fetish.

Instead, Beijing knows Hong Kong ain't going nowhere and so they are just going to wait them out, playing the long game, frogs in slowing boiling water.

A fascist China would actually be pretty scary, if they ever go fascist, we will be at the brink of thermonuclear war,  in no time flat.

The fascists have to have the war, the war is everything, it's the raison d'etre, the cleansing fire, so they will start a war as soon as they are able.

The Communists are the opposite, they're not seeking a doomsday war, the Communists want to win without having to fight any wars at all.

The Chinese are not on a war footing, they don't even have their nukes on hair trigger alert like the Americans and Russians do, by fascist standards, the Chinese are docile and peaceful.

That doesn't mean they're not dangerous, they're just not going to come at you with a blitzkrieg, you will come to them in the end, they will co-opt you, and you wont even notice until it is too late to do anything about it, so there's no need to shoot you.

They're here already, and they didn't a single tank to get themselves inside the wire, Hockey Night in Canada, brought to you by Huawei.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

Video has emerged of Chinese police leading hundreds of shackled, blindfolded, shave-headed Uighars towards their new 'vocational training centre' - which is definitely not a concentration camp! Oh no! Don't even think it!

https://news.sky.com/story/chinas-detention-of-uighurs-video-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-authentic-11815401

[Argus]

A decently thought-out opinion on why the Chinese have not yet crushed Hong Kong's relentless demonstrators. as well as a reiteration of China being a fascist, not communist state.

We should not imagine that his planned empire would be communist: China’s government has only retained the name “Communist Party” because to do otherwise would be a first step towards admitting the atrocities of the past. The severing of the link between Xi and Mao would make it possible to acknowledge that Mao was one of history’s worst villains. This would set a precedent for criticising authority that would inevitably lead to Xi’s own downfall. So the name stays, but in truth there is nothing “communist” about this Communist Party (save its authoritarianism). In fact, Marxist students, activists, and social workers have been arrested and tortured since Xi took power, and universities have shut down Marxist societies.

As Simon Leitch has noted in an essay for Quillette, the Chinese government is actually fascist. This term is widely used in a hyperbolic sense today, but Leitch explains that the word originally meant a political system with three distinct features: authoritarianism, ethnonationalism, and “an economic model in which capitalism co-existed with large state-directed industries and partnerships between the government and corporations.” Here we have a perfect description of the current regime in Beijing (and if we need more evidence, we should remind ourselves that this regime also imprisons people in concentration camps for having the ‘wrong’ ethnicity). The Communist Party is fascist—in the literal, technical sense.

 

https://quillette.com/2019/09/28/hong-kong-first-line-of-defence-against-a-rising-fascist-power/

[CITIZEN_2015]

I believe fascism (both racial and religious fascism)  and communism are the same points on a circle 360 degrees apart. Hitler murdered 6 million and Stalin murdered 10 millions. They both crack down on freedom of expression and silence and oppress opposition in a violent way. They are both murderous and oppressive. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

14 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I believe fascism (both racial and religious fascism)  and communism are the same points on a circle 360 degrees apart. Hitler murdered 6 million and Stalin murdered 10 millions. They both crack down on freedom of expression and silence and oppress opposition in a violent way. They are both murderous and oppressive. 

Let me guess...in either case you believe both are conveniently and safely located on the so-called left. As evidenced by their progressiveness or merely their names?

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Let me guess...in either case you believe both are conveniently and safely located on the so-called left. As evidenced by their progressiveness or merely their names?

I think it was clear from my post that I meant both right and left, on the extreme.

[eyeball]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:28 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I think it was clear from my post that I meant both right and left, on the extreme.

No it was the farthest thing from it actually. You can't be 360 degrees away from any point on a compass - you'll be on the very point.  Extreme right and left positions will always be 180 degrees or poles apart as the saying goes.

We've seen other people around here try to make it look as if people like Hitler and Stalin were lefties whilst projecting their politics.  It just looked like you botched up an attempt to do the same thing is all.

[cannuck]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:28 AM, eyeball said:

No it was the farthest thing from it actually. You can't be 360 degrees away from any point on a compass - you'll be on the very point.  Extreme right and left positions will always be 180 degrees or poles apart as the saying goes.

We've seen other people around here try to make it look as if people like Hitler and Stalin were lefties whilst projecting their politics.  It just looked like you botched up an attempt to do the same thing is all.

This brings up an important question:   In your mind, what does "Right" and "Left" mean?   Further, do you believe that there are only two cardinal directions on your political compass?  Not meaning to be judgmental (at this point), just curious.
 

[OftenWrong]

There is a tendency in certain media to downplay the negative aspects of communism, to say "yes the Chinese are bad, but they are not actually communists. What you see is not true communism." The same argument is used by commie apologists for Josef Stalin. Therefore leaving open the argument that "true communism" is still good and worthy of pursuit.

Supreme BS.

What we see today are the fruits of those political ideas. Both fascism and communism depend on totalitarianism to exist, and it is you people on the left who like to hide things behind your fancy words, who to deny that. Communism and fascism are already demonstrated great failures in history, but certain elements on the left, which supports authoritarianism by definition are spreading lies to our youth. They are targeting young people, who are not yet well versed in history to spread lies that western political and economic systems are evil and corrupt and should be replaced. Ask what they should be replaced with, and the veil of deception is quickly removed.

 

US acknowledges victims of communism