Handguns and Assault Rifles

[Army Guy]

42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

This forum is getting ridiculous.  You can’t be Canadian, or if you are you’re an outlier. .  Quebecers are generally more pacifist than even the average Canadian.  I’m so thankful we have more gun control in Canada and I hope we get more of it.  

Where is the evidence that we need more gun control, are bad guys lining up to purchase their guns from local gun shops, or are they buying illegal guns from illegal sources...........or is it that your just scared of fire arms...why not stand on your soap box and demand a ban on  booze, it kills more Canadians each day than fire arms, Is it because you don't understand the legal gun culture thing so you want it stopped. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

or is it that your just scared of fire arms...

It's not that they're scared of arms.

It's that they're scared of freedom, period.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

It's not that they're scared of arms.

It's that they're scared of freedom, period.

Exactly.   Canadians are raised by the state propaganda arms to fear and loathe freedom because it is not in the interests of the entrenched elites in Canada for Canadians to assert their freedom.

So for example, Progressive Canadian Bolshevists ceaselessly run about screeching hysterically that if Canadians demand to have the same freedoms which Americans enjoy, it's going to be "DOOMSDAY! ZOMG MASS SHOOTINGS! ZOMG! ZOMG! FREE SPEECH!  DON'T YOU SEE HOW DANGEROUS FREEDOM IS?!!!"

Which, to be fair, freedom is not safety, Canadians would rather cling to supposed safety than be free, which is why Canada is an infantilized fake country which will never put its big boy pants on, and why this Confederation will have to be brought down, and will be brought down in the end.

Vive le Quebec libre, totalitarian Canadian police state delenda est.

[Dougie93]

And for those of you old enough to remember the Iron Curtain, this was in fact the very same strategy which the Soviet elites employed to keep the Eastern Europeans from asserting their freedoms.

Terror was an instrument of Bolshevik state power, but it was never sufficient, the principle way the Bolsheviks maintained control was simply by indoctrinating the masses to fear Western freedom, Western freedom was invoked as a nightmare of chaos and disorder, you don't want that, so you'd better rally around Stalin & Co if you know what's good for you.

[Zeitgeist]

The idea that allowing civilians to carry weapons that have the sole purpose of killing people easily is an extension of freedom rather than an infringement of it due to the possibility and psychological terror of mass mass murder is an American idea that I hope we don’t have in Canada.  I prefer being free from the unbalanced sadist who decides to murder people and has the means to do it easily.

If we go down the Second Amendment road, in 10-20 years the conversation on here about guns will be that we can’t turn back the clock and further limit access to guns because there are too many of them in the wrong hands and people have to protect themselves.  In Europe, including the UK, people just shake their heads at a mentality that justifies mass murders of children and other innocents in the name of some Old West notion of freedom.  Gun proliferation is a public safety hazard in the 21st century and one that is still largely avoidable in Canada.  I hope we introduce further gun control in Canada.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The idea that allowing civilians to carry weapons that have a sole purpose of killing people is an extension of freedom rather than an infringement of it due to the possibility and psychological terror of mass mass murder is an American idea that I hope we don’t have in Canada. 

 

"Mass murders" by firearms are a very small portion of gun homicides and suicides in Canada...and the USA. 

Very dramatic for emotional and reflexive responses for more gun legislation, but not based in reality.

Several founding ideas exist in America and not in Canada because the Americans wanted independence from what you have (and don't have) in Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

"Mass murders" by firearms are a very small portion of gun homicides and suicides in Canada...and the USA. 

Very dramatic for emotional and reflexive responses for more gun legislation, but not based in reality.

Several founding ideas exist in America and not in Canada because the Americans wanted independence from what you have (and don't have) in Canada.

Keep your gun violence to yourselves.  I’m sick of hearing about the domestic dispute that resulted in murder because a weapon was in the house, or the child who finds daddy’s gun and shoots his sister, or the man who feels depressed this month and takes his life, and then there are the mass shootings in schools and work places.  You can keep that freedom for yourselves.  

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Keep your gun violence to yourselves.  I’m sick of hearing about the domestic dispute that resulted in murder because a weapon was in the house, or the child who finds daddy’s gun and shoots his sister, or the man who feels depressed this month and takes his life, and then there are the mass shootings in schools and work places.  You can keep that freedom for yourselves.  

 

Of course we can, and have every intention of doing so regardless of what you think about it.   This is about more bans in Canada, not the United States, so crying croc tears about what happens across an international border doesn't apply.

There are lots and lots of firearms in private Canadians' possession, regardless of what you see in American media.

Try to focus on that...instead.

[cannuck]

I can understand the desire of someone living in an Aholefactory such as Hogtown wanting a ban on weapons.  The whole context of inviting as many drug dealers, terrorists, extremists, etc. to live there and operate their divergent criminal enterprises is a completely different environment from the ROC.  BUT, in reality Canada wide, about 1% of violent crimes involve firearms.  When you have 4 or 5 million people living cheek-to-jowell the Media just covers it and spread panic more effectively.   The highest incidences of gun crime actually occur in SK, and there is no real effort or pressure here to ban any firearms.  Of course, if you look at the ethnicity of those violent crimes, you can quickly figure out why SK leads the pack.

[Dougie93]

America is a religion.   That religion knows no bounds.   We are not begging for our American freedom.

Liberty is granted by external authority, freedom is what you take.

As Canada makes itself an enemy of American freedom once again, Canada will destroy itself, and that process has in fact has already begun.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

I can understand the desire of someone living in an Aholefactory such as Hogtown wanting a ban on weapons. 

Toronto is fast paced, most of the aholery is traffic related, so long as you're not road raging with them, Torontonians are very friendly and polite.

In terms of the Progressive Multicult Bolsheviks, that's just a few wealthy neighborhoods in the downtown Old City of Toronto, Toronto is not a monolith.

Ford Nation is Toronto too. 

Also, contrary to elitist media sentiment, Toronto actually has a vibrant and thriving gun culture.

It's not the American gun culture though, it's West Indian. Bup-bup, booyaka.

The West Indians were slaves, they know that Canadian gun control is all part and parcel of the racist apartheid state, keeps the Indians down, keeps the  black man down too.

Any culture which was enslaved knows why the American white man has his second amendment, they just want that same freedom as Thomas Jefferson did.

Gun control is inherently racist, it's wealthy white people in Rosedale, targeting the blacks in Rexdale.

It doesn't prevent any shootings, it is simply another rubric for Metro Police to go into the black neighborhoods and arrest people at random.

Bear in mind where gun control came from.  

It came from America, from Dixie to be precise, what gun control really means; is keep the guns out of the hands of the slaves, lest they revolt.

There was no gun control in Canada until 1885, the impetus for Canadian gun control; was the Northwest Rebellion and Louis Riel.

Louis Riel.   The Father of Manitoba.   Who the Canadian government executed for "treason".

Canadian apartheid police state delenda est.  

A Canadian iron curtain shall not stand in the way of the Union extirpating its original sin.

America will free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying, glory, glory, hallelujah.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

57 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Toronto is fast paced, most of the aholery is traffic related, so long as you're not road raging with them, Torontonians are very friendly and polite.

In terms of the Progressive Multicult Bolsheviks, that's just a few wealthy neighborhoods in the downtown Old City of Toronto, Toronto is not a monolith.

Ford Nation is Toronto too. 

Also, contrary to elitist media sentiment, Toronto actually has a vibrant and thriving gun culture.

It's not the American gun culture though, it's West Indian. Bup-bup, booyaka.

The West Indians were slaves, they know that Canadian gun control is all part and parcel of the racist apartheid state, keeps the Indians down, keeps the  black man down too.

Any culture which was enslaved knows why the American white man has his second amendment, they just want that same American freedom too.

Gun control is inherently racist, it's wealthy white people in Rosedale, targeting the blacks in Rexdale.

It doesn't prevent any shootings, it is simply another rubric for Metro Police to go into the black neighborhoods and arrest people at random.

Bear in mind where gun control came from.  

It came from America, from Dixie to be precise, what gun control really means; is keep the guns out of the hands of the slaves, lest they revolt.

There was no gun control in Canada until 1885, the impetus for Canadian gun control; was the Northwest Rebellion and Louis Riel.

Louis Riel.   The Father of Manitoba.   Who the Canadian government tied to a post and shot dead.

While harsh by today’s standards, Riel was put down for the same reasons PET declared marshal law in response to the FLQ kidnapping and murder during the October Crisis, to make sure that protest/dissent happened legislatively rather than through terrorism or rebellion.  Riel should not have been put to death.  In the 1830’s rebellions Papineau and McKenzie were not put to death but went into temporary exile.  Manitoba was contentious for multiple reasons: gateway to western development, precedent setting by new provinces, Selkirk settlement versus Métis settlement, Northwest Company versus Hudson’s Bay Company.  It was a focal point for the assertion of power, and the newly minted Canadian government asserted it.  If nothing else, it made Riel a folk hero and rallying point for Francophone Canadian nationalism and First Nations, though some FI don’t accept the Métis.  For me the early folk hero is Etienne Brûlée.  When you see PET in his suede vest kayaking, he’s evoking that type.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

"He shall die though every dog in Quebec bark in his favour" ~ Sir John A. MacDonald.

Vive le Quebec libre, Canadian police state delenda est, and good riddance.

Mine eyes hath seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on. . .

America will be bringing the Lord to Nietzschean Canada, whether the Progressive Bolsheviks like it, or not.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Spiderfish]

On 8/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

 Outside of hunting weapons, is it reasonable to take the risk of allowing civilians to carry handguns and assault rifles?

Civilians in Canada cannot carry handguns or assault weapons now (whatever an “assault weapon” even is, as Canada has no definition of such thing).  Obtaining a civilian carry permit or licence in Canada is not possible.  Canadians can own restricted firearms provided they are properly licencesd and thoroughly trained.

On 8/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

 If so, what protections should be put in place to prevent the misuse of such weapons and their proliferation?

What protections??  You mean, in addition to the exhaustive protections in place currently? 

Canada already has a myriad of laws, rules, and restrictions to handle such crimes.

On 8/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

If we ignore this opportunity to ban them, could we soon reach a point of no return, such that people buy guns to protect themselves from too many bad guys who won’t give them up?

Criminals won’t give up their guns regardless of how many rules or bans there are.  And I find it interesting, though confusing that you seem to fear innocent people who want to protect themselves but don't seem to be focused on the criminals who aren't registering their handguns or obtaining the proper licence.

On 8/1/2019 at 5:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

I think all assault rifles should be banned among civilians and that the restrictions and screening for handgun ownership should be severe.  I’m also comfortable with a ban.

Again, what is an assault rifle...is it a semi-auto centre fire rifle like thousands of hunters use currently to hunt?  Is it  black gun?  Restrictions and screening of restricted weapons are already severe, and monitoring and control of both the weapons and the owners is strict.  Of course you are comfortable with a ban, you obviously don’t own handguns so it wouldn’t affect you.  It’s so easy to agree to taking other people’s possessions and rights away, no problem…right?

Canadians are among the most regulated and scrutinized firearms owners in the world.  In order to obtain a firearm in Canada, restricted or otherwise, a person needs to first apply for a licence which involves taking a Firearms Safety Course which covers basic safety practices, operation and firing techniques, and how to safely handle, store, display and transport guns. Licence applicants have to pass multiple tests to complete the Safety Course.  Once that’s out of the way, an applicant is subjected to a thorough background check, which includes personal reference checks and a variety of background checks… in some cases, in-depth investigations.  Applicants must also provide information on their mental health, employment and marital status.  Based on that information, the Chief Firearms Officer may decide to interview the applicant, their references or, with the applicant's consent, their doctor. Once you get a licence, you are subject to continuous screening for criminal behaviour.  People getting a licence for the first time must also undergo a minimum 28-day waiting period.

I'm not sure how much more strict our current possession laws would have to be to make you feel comfortable.  Maybe the problem isn't target shooters and collectors, maybe instead of taking away the possessions and freedoms of innocent law abiding citizens, or bringing in more even laws than we already have, we could focus more on the people who are breaking the laws.  It is quite telling that the federal government doesn’t keep track of people who have been banned from owning guns as closely as it keeps track of ordinary duck hunters and target shooters.  Of course, this isn't about Liberals wanting to make the public safer, it's obviously about keeping people fearful and  exploiting those fears for votes.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Spiderfish

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind that the Liberal Progressive strategy is de facto prohibition by draconian regulation.

They seek to make it such a burden that you will simply decline to bother to jump through the hoops.

At this juncture, the best way to resist, is to jump through the hoops regardless.

Take the course, get the Restricted FAC, buy the assault rifle, whatever burden that imposes, is simply the price of doing business.

The more people who own assault rifles, the better.

And don't run from the term "assault rifle", I know the American gun lobby is currently trying to discredit that term, but that is actually folly, don't let them chase you into a corner wherein you are denying that the Armalite is a military assault weapon, embrace "military assault weapon" as a badge of honour, rub it in their faces.

English Bill of Rights 1689,  the Well Regulated Militia predates America in fact.

Liberty is what is granted by external authority, freedom is what you take without asking permission.

Remember where you come from, the story of your people.

White Anglo Saxon and Protestant, armed to the teeth, Dieu et mon droit, nec aspera terrent.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

Continue to allow hunting weapons and get rid of all the other crap.  Collectors can find new hobbies.  Collecting mass murder devices is a shady hobby at best.  People can visit museums.

[bush_cheney2004]

What seems to be the problem here ?   Liberal and progressive Canada hasn't banned "military style" guns yet, like New Zealand ?

No buyback program ?   How about another failed Gun Registry ?  

Seems that a fondness for firearms runs deep north of the border....not a big surprise at all.

[Dougie93]

When it was fresh and new I found automatic rifles to be exciting, but it quickly became boring, and while I do not oppose hunting, it gives me no pleasure to shoot wild animals for sport, I love all animals, except for the Homo Sapiens Sapiens apex predator male, which are inherently dangerous, and thus sometimes need to be shot.

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Continue to allow hunting weapons

As if the Progressives would stop at that, never mind that "hunting" weapons are no safer than Armalites.

12 gauge has way more stopping power than Five-Five-Six, and I can drop a .308 on center of mass from six football fields away, eight football fields with the scope mounted.

Due to the rural and wilderness nature of Canada, banning the pump action shotgun and bolt action long rifle is not practically viable, and yet those are two of the most devastating firearms of them all.

The mass shooters you live in fear of would quickly adapt, two minutes on the internet and they can figure out that you don't need a hi capacity magazine with a shotgun, you just keep feeding the shells into the breach as you go.   If anything, it would make them more lethal, because slow is smooth and smooth is fast and most people survive mass shootings because the shooter just sprays fire without taking his time.

The nanny state can't stop Incelter Skelter, it's cultural, mass media incited lone wolfs, whatever guns are available, that's what they'll use, and Progressives will then start screeching to ban the "hunting" weapons too.  

In the end, Progressives can't see the forest through the trees, as speech banning, gun grabbing, freedom hating police states eventually incite civil wars, and I'd bet the Progressive body count would go up not down in the event of.

In fact it already presents like a low intensity civil war, the mass shootings are becoming ever more political,  it's specifically targeting leftist sacred cows, women, ethnic minorities, urbanites, the shooters are not random, they are actually hunting you specifically, they're all going after the bourgeoisie.

It's like the guy in New Zealand well knew that Jacinda Ardern and leftist kooks of the Labour Party would take the bait and start rounding up guns, and that's exactly what he wanted, because he knows that's just going to escalate the war.

And then the ridiculous women in New Zealand all start wearing Muslim head scarfs? 

And then they impose a draconian speech ban related to the incident?

They literally made the guys case for him, it couldn't have gone better for him if he had wrote it as a script.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Dougie93

[ironstone]

Of all the gun crimes committed in Canada during a typical year, how many said crimes are committed by legal gun owners? How many are committed by gang members?

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Of all the gun crimes committed in Canada during a typical year, how many said crimes are committed by legal gun owners? How many are committed by gang members?

I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I bet that the vast majority of gun "crime" in Canada consists of police state gotcha crimes, criminalizing otherwise law abiding gun owners for some minor technicality which the tyrannical government punishes with absurdly disproportionate penalties.

This is why, if you are going to be a Restricted Class firearms owner in particular, you need to operate with military precision, no fail mission every time.

Again, it is a burden, but thus is the price of freedom in police state Canada.

[Dougie93]

I mean, I don't actually need a Restricted Class firearm, it's not about the iron, it's all about the shooter, I am the military assault weapon, so it doesn't matter what gat I'm behind, I can make the slide action shotgun work for me, I can make the bolt action long rifle work for me, infantrymen fought the World Wars with bolt action rifles after all, the motivation to go Restricted Class is political, to defend and uphold the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and associated Bill of Rights of 1689, as an United Empire Loyalist Orangeman.

I remember where I come from, and know the story of my people, nec aspera terrent.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Dougie93

[Spiderfish]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Continue to allow hunting weapons and get rid of all the other crap.  Collectors can find new hobbies.  Collecting mass murder devices is a shady hobby at best.  People can visit museums.

Would you ban this? It's not black and it's a very popular hunting rifle.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Spiderfish

[Dougie93]

If you are want to buy world class Canadian, get the Colt Canada C7/8, made in Kitchener Ontario,  same rifle as HM Canadian Forces use (also purchased from Canada as the service rifle of Danish, Dutch, and Norwegian forces, and the C8 is the carbine employed by HM United Kingdom Special Forces,  to include the 22nd Special Air Service Regiment, Qui Ose Gagne), comprehensive development of the Marine Corps AR15A2HBAR, now with Magpul M-Lok Monolithic Integrated Upper Receiver.

If your preference is shotgun; Remington 870 Express Tactical.

Sidearms are more of a personal thing, for me I prefer wheelguns, .38 Spec /.357 Magnum Smith & Wesson's.

Full disclosure; I am an American Outdoor Brands Smith & Wesson shareholder, but I own it because I believe in the product and  company.

I'm long on Smith & Wesson, it's recession proof, and in the event of monstrous debt bubble massive market correction, I'd expect gun sales to go through the roof with the onset of civil disorder.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Also bear in mind that you don't have to do all your shooting behind the iron curtain of the Canadian Bolshevist Progressive police state, when you are in the land of the free, you can ditch all those stupid pins and rods and whatnot that gutless effeminate Canadian totalitarians require, just make sure your arms are all Soviet compliant before you cross back over the border into Leftist Loonie Land.