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China warns Canada not to be 'naive' in thinking allies can help fix issues (updated with Trudeau's reply)


egghead

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Will JT put on his big boy pants or run to aunt Merkel instead of uncle Trump this time? C'mon, really don't understand why JT don't lock up Meng now, what is he waiting for? Communism has no sunny way.

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China has warned Canada not to be "naive" in thinking that the U.S. can help smooth over issues between the two countries.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told reporters Tuesday that he was "confident" U.S. President Donald Trump brought up the case of the two detained Canadians during talks with China's Xi Jinping.

Trump said on Saturday he did not talk with Xi about the extradition case against Huawei telecommunications executive Meng Wanzhou during their bilateral meeting on the sidelines of the G20  summit in Japan.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-canada-trump-naive-1.5198249

 

update::

Now, I feel sorry for those 2 Canadians.

Quote

'Our approach ... is working': Trudeau trumpets Western support against China's detention of 2 Canadians

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-china-detainees-allies-support-1.5199891

 

Edited by egghead
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Trudeau is weak....and he refuses to take equivalent retaliatory actions against China's detentions and new trade restrictions.

Meanwhile, he tries to cozy up to Trump for help after smugly denouncing him as a populist barbarian in the past.

China is right about this issue....allies cannot rescue Justin Trudeau from himself.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau is weak....and he refuses to take equivalent retaliatory actions against China's detentions and new trade restrictions.

Meanwhile, he tries to cozy up to Trump for help after smugly denouncing him as a populist barbarian in the past.

China is right about this issue....allies cannot rescue Justin Trudeau from himself.

 

 

Nevertheless, JT is the least reprehensible of this cast.  China continues to show itself as totalitarian and unjust.  The US under this president is basically a throwback imperial power.  Younger generations are waiting for these characters to retire.  Will take a while in China due to Xi’s lifetime dictator mandate.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Nevertheless, JT is the least reprehensible of this cast.  China continues to show itself as totalitarian and unjust.  The US under this president is basically a throwback imperial power.  Younger generations are waiting for these characters to retire.  Will take a while in China due to Xi’s lifetime dictator mandate.  

 

????   The U.S. and China are not going to change just because Canada has a weak ass prime minister, and other nations are not going to change either.

Hell, the U.S. had over 900 Canadian nationals incarcerated in state and federal prisons long before Trump ever got elected.

China is going to continue kicking Trudeau's ass until he decides to do something about it, but Trudeau and Freeland are too afraid to "escalate", as their backbones have gone missing.

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China is not even a trade partner, it's an enemy of our nation. China is a huge mess, owned by a central government whose goal is taking over our economies by copying and rebranding what we do best in the West.

We should totally annihilate financially the Chinese government by stopping any trade relations with these enemies of our people.

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Just now, QuebecOverCanada said:

China is not even a trade partner, it's an enemy of our nation. China is a huge mess, owned by a central government whose goal is taking over our economies by copying and rebranding what we do best in the West.

We should totally annihilate financially the Chinese government by stopping any trade relations with these enemies of our people.

 

Agreed, but the incomprehensible thing about Trudeau is that he immediately retaliated against Trump tariffs and a U.S. economy that could crush Canada if he wanted to, yet Trudeau is afraid of a much less important China (relative to the Canadian economy).

Must be all those Chinese votes in B.C., money laundering machine to the world.

 

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10 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

China is not even a trade partner, it's an enemy of our nation. China is a huge mess, owned by a central government whose goal is taking over our economies by copying and rebranding what we do best in the West.

We should totally annihilate financially the Chinese government by stopping any trade relations with these enemies of our people.

That's not realistic, but if Canada actually had a spine, there's lots of things Canada could do to stick it to the Chinese, step one being to ignore the One China policy to broaden and deepen relations across the board with Taiwan.

If you really want to get their attention, you start joint training with the ROC Navy off of Formosa.

Edited by Dougie93
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59 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

It's official now.....Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been declared Canada's "Jimmy Carter".

That's an insult to President Carter, for all his faults domestically, he actually did big things on the world stage, to include being a stalwart hawk against the Soviets.

Jimmy Carter was a serious guy, submariner,  just like you,  Trudeau is Canada's Barack Obama; whole lotta  virtue signalling, nothing backing it up.

Jimmy Carter was fully prepared to fight World War Three to defend the free world, he just couldn't get anything done domestically because he couldn't get along with his own Democrat Congress.

Ironically it was President Reagan (former New Dealer Democrat) who found a way to work with Tip O'Neill where Jimmy Carter couldn't.

Jimmy Carter's problem was that he told Congress it's my way or the highway, to which Congress said go f**k yourself, and then everything ground to a halt, Carter then blew himself up with the Malaise Speech.

None the less, the idea that Israel and Egypt could not only peacefully co-exist but actually be allies of sorts, was far fetched when I was growing up, and yet Jimmy Carter made it happen, and that peace has held for forty years, Trudeau isn't in the same league with Jimmy Carter.

Jimmy Carter has saved many peoples lives, Trudeau has done nothing whatsoever, Trudeau really is just a substitute drama teacher, he's not fit to carry Jimmy Carter's golf clubs.

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau is weak....and he refuses to take equivalent retaliatory actions against China's detentions and new trade restrictions.

Meanwhile, he tries to cozy up to Trump for help after smugly denouncing him as a populist barbarian in the past.

China is right about this issue....allies cannot rescue Justin Trudeau from himself.

He has no allies, having made none. His trade stance is certainly not endearing him to the UK.

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Nevertheless, JT is the least reprehensible of this cast.  China continues to show itself as totalitarian and unjust.  The US under this president is basically a throwback imperial power.  Younger generations are waiting for these characters to retire.  Will take a while in China due to Xi’s lifetime dictator mandate.  

What have US done?

Sorry, you are dead wrong. JT or Canada is a major player in this farce because JT's moves will tip the scales

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3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

That's an insult to President Carter, for all his faults domestically, he actually did big things on the world stage, to include being a stalwart hawk against the Soviets.

Jimmy Carter was a serious guy, submariner,  just like you,  Trudeau is Canada's Barack Obama; whole lotta  virtue signalling, nothing backing it up.

Jimmy Carter was fully prepared to fight World War Three to defend the free world, he just couldn't get anything done domestically because he couldn't get along with his own Democrat Congress.

Ironically it was President Reagan (former New Dealer Democrat) who found a way to work with Tip O'Neill where Jimmy Carter couldn't.

Jimmy Carter's problem was that he told Congress it's my way or the highway, to which Congress said go f**k yourself, and then everything ground to a halt, Carter then blew himself up with the Malaise Speech.

None the less, the idea that Israel and Egypt could not only peacefully co-exist but actually be allies of sorts, was far fetched when I was growing up, and yet Jimmy Carter made it happen, and that peace has held for forty years, Trudeau isn't in the same league with Jimmy Carter.

Jimmy Carter has saved many peoples lives, Trudeau has done nothing whatsoever, Trudeau really is just a substitute drama teacher, he's not fit to carry Jimmy Carter's golf clubs.

Hold on.  What do you call accepting around 70,000 refugees?  What constitutes saving lives?  Carter is a very respectable person, but he had policy problems, especially with Iran.  

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3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

That's not realistic, but if Canada actually had a spine, there's lots of things Canada could do to stick it to the Chinese, step one being to ignore the One China policy to broaden and deepen relations across the board with Taiwan.

If you really want to get their attention, you start joint training with the ROC Navy off of Formosa.

And if Canada did that would the US under Trump back us?  I’m not sure anymore.  Trump respects power without purpose.  It’s about who carries the biggest stick, not values like human rights, which are apparently for “snowflakes”.  China is even worse.  

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

And if Canada did that would the US under Trump back us?  I’m not sure anymore.  Trump respects power without purpose.  It’s about who carries the biggest stick, not values like human rights, which are apparently for “snowflakes”.  China is even worse.  

 

Doesn't matter...this is not about hiding behind a bigger brother.   Trudeau scored big political points by standing up to Trump's tariffs, but for some reason is very afraid of China.

Canada has to stand for something all by itself, otherwise it is just a vassal state.

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Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter...this is not about hiding behind a bigger brother.   Trudeau scored big political points by standing up to Trump's tariffs, but for some reason is very afraid of China.

Canada has to stand for something all by itself, otherwise it is just a vassal state.

It matters because at different times in the past two years our ally has done dangerous and unpredictable things that play into China’s and Russia’s hands.  The UK is self-absorbed right now.  Europe is unwieldy.  For a small player like Canada to take a major stance without at least some assurance of the support of allies is risky. I would suggest two immediate measures from the government of Canada:

1. A timely deadline for the settlement of the Meng extradition by the US, the violation of which results in her unconditional release. 

2.  Immediate counter-measures against Chinese imports of equal trade volumes to the Canadian canola, pork, and beef exports.  

Why Trudeau hasn’t taken these steps already, especially number two, really is weak. 

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6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It's just a vassal state.

What are perhaps the freest people in the world are vassals?  Canada has to navigate larger powers that are ruled by dangerous fools.  How the country manages as well as it does is testimony to its fortitude.  

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What are perhaps the freest people in the world are vassals?  Canada has to navigate larger powers that are ruled by dangerous fools.  How the country manages as well as it does is testimony to its fortitude.  

Canadians are not the freest people in the world, and yeah American vassal state. Having to navigate larger powers and not being able to do anything meaningful without support of some of those major powers is an obvious sign of being a vassal. The country doesn't manage well, it's a testimony to it's fragility.

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

It matters because at different times in the past two years our ally has done dangerous and unpredictable things that play into China’s and Russia’s hands.  The UK is self-absorbed right now.  Europe is unwieldy.  For a small player like Canada to take a major stance without at least some assurance of the support of allies is risky. I would suggest two immediate measures from the government of Canada:

1. A timely deadline for the settlement of the Meng extradition by the US, the violation of which results in her unconditional release. 

2.  Immediate counter-measures against Chinese imports of equal trade volumes to the Canadian canola, pork, and beef exports.  

Why Trudeau hasn’t taken these steps already, especially number two, really is weak. 

 

I needn't remind you that Trump has taken on China biggly on trade, and has directly challenged Russia in Syrian air space.   The U.S. has a lot more on its plate than Canada, and can't drop everything to baby-sit foreign policy files that Trudeau has screwed up for his virtue signals and feminist agenda.

Being afraid of risk is part of his problem, and previous prime ministers displayed far more courage despite such risks, including counter positions to (ally) USA.

Trudeau has lots of options with varying degrees of escalation to get China's attention, including 5G contracts, visas, diplomat expulsions, import bans, etc.

What Trudeau (and Freeland) do not have are the balls to do it.

 

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9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I needn't remind you that Trump has taken on China biggly on trade, and has directly challenged Russia in Syrian air space.   The U.S. has a lot more on its plate than Canada, and can't drop everything to baby-sit foreign policy files that Trudeau has screwed up for his virtue signals and feminist agenda.

Being afraid of risk is part of his problem, and previous prime ministers displayed far more courage despite such risks, including counter positions to (ally) USA.

Trudeau has lots of options with varying degrees of escalation to get China's attention, including 5G contracts, visas, diplomat expulsions, import bans, etc.

What Trudeau (and Freeland) do not have are the balls to do it.

 

I agree on the most part with your assessment of JT, but I don’t see Trump taking on Russia or China in the important ways.  Tariffs have created winners and losers and largely been a blunt instrument causing as many problems as they solve.  It’s his US versus everyone approach that is causing other countries to work around the US where possible and deal with them where necessary.  There’s no grand vision or world changing policy for the better.  It’s about protection and exclusion, which just leaves people trampled as they rush the exits to take what they can.  The migration crisis along the US southern border illustrates this.  People have traded in hope for fear because of all the threats to build walls, expell, and generally shut the door on the have-nots.  

Because Trump is approaching China in this context as trade negotiations unfold, the distrust is palpable.  

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I agree on the most part with your assessment of JT, but I don’t see Trump taking on Russia or China in the important ways.  Tariffs have created winners and losers and largely been a blunt instrument causing as many problems as they solve.  It’s his US versus everyone approach that is causing other countries to work around the US where possible and deal with them where necessary.  There’s no grand vision or world changing policy for the better.  It’s about protection and exclusion, which just leaves people trampled as they rush the exits to take what they can.  The migration crisis along the US southern border illustrates this.  People have traded in hope for fear because of all the threats to build walls, expell, and generally shut the door on the have-nots.  

 

Would you prefer that Trump start a shooting war instead ?    Trump has bagged new trade agreements (e.g. South Korea), with NAFTA 2.0 pending ratification.   Don't confuse change from the status quo with only a US approach, or even consider that the US is the only important focus on trade and globalism.   The U.S. is not a dumping ground for all the world's oppressed and have nots, but remains #1 in the world for landed immigrants.

More importantly, those topics are just a distraction from Trudeau's issue here, and deferring to Trump/U.S. for back-up just makes him appear weaker to China.  

The US and UK did not back down on the Iraq War when (ally) Canada whined and opposed military action without UN approval.

 

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Would you prefer that Trump start a shooting war instead ?    Trump has bagged new trade agreements (e.g. South Korea), with NAFTA 2.0 pending ratification.   Don't confuse change from the status quo with only a US approach, or even consider that the US is the only important focus on trade and globalism.   The U.S. is not a dumping ground for all the world's oppressed and have nots, but remains #1 in the world for landed immigrants.

More importantly, those topics are just a distraction from Trudeau's issue here, and deferring to Trump/U.S. for back-up just makes him appear weaker to China.  

The US and UK did not back down on the Iraq War when (ally) Canada whined and opposed military action without UN approval.

 

It was an unmitigated good that Canada didn’t participate in Iraq Invasion redux.  Even Trump sees how disastrous that US intervention was.  ISIS can be clearly traced back to places like Abu Graib and the US’s undemocratic support of the Shia minority government.  

On immigration I suggest taking a very different tact, because you’re going to face far more pressure to accept migrants, especially climate refugees.  Canada is there too.  How this ongoing crisis is managed and how well countries can work together to solve it will probably decide how peaceful and healthy countries are going forward.  Wise resettlement policies that don’t stoke class or race warfare will be key.  Leaders who seek to solve the problem with oppressive force and xenophobia will take the world in the wrong direction.  

I realize power has a big impact on influence, and Canada is a modest middle power, but good ideas and knowledge can have tremendous force and power.  Canada can still lead in ideas. I’m not naive to the importance of being able to back it up with hard power and Canada should do more in that area.  

Trudeau should take firm measures against China immediately.  If he doesn’t, that’s one more reason for punishment at the polls.   

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