China warns Canada not to be 'naive' in thinking allies can help fix issues (updated with Trudeau's reply)

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

It was an unmitigated good that Canada didn’t participate in Iraq Invasion redux.  Even Trump sees how disastrous that US intervention was.  ISIS can be clearly traced back to places like Abu Graib and the US’s undemocratic support of the Shia minority government. 

 

You missed the entire point.....Canada opposed "allies" UK and US, and had the courage to do so.   Why does Trudeau need Trump for back up ?

 

Quote

On immigration I suggest taking a very different tact, because you’re going to face far more pressure to accept migrants, especially climate refugees.  Canada is there too.  How this ongoing crisis is managed and how well countries can work together to solve it will probably decide how peaceful and healthy countries are going forward.  Wise resettlement policies that don’t stoke class or race warfare will be key.  Leaders who seek to solve the problem with oppressive force and xenophobia will take the world in the wrong direction. 

 

Really off topic here... the U.S. has managed legal and illegal immigration on a scale that Canada cannot fathom.   Trump and previous presidents have implored the U.S. Congress to fix the mess, but they refuse to do so for several reasons.   

 

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I realize power has a big impact on influence, and Canada is a modest middle power, but good ideas and knowledge can have tremendous force and power.  Canada can still lead in ideas. I’m not naive to the importance of being able to back it up with hard power and Canada should do more in that area. 

 

Canada is no longer a middle power, as it can no longer project military power abroad without allied support.   And Canada is losing economic power to Mexico, while remaining hopelessly dependent on the U.S. market and foreign direct investment.    Trudeau needs to put on his big boy pants and confront the issue(s) at hand with hard and soft power.   China is not interested in his "ideas".

Trudeau claims that Canada is the first post-national state....is this one of the leading ideas ?  

 

Quote

Trudeau should take firm measures against China immediately.  If he doesn’t, that’s one more reason for punishment at the polls.   

 

Agreed....Trudeau should be turfed if he fails to rise up to this challenge before the election.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

And if Canada did that would the US under Trump back us?  I’m not sure anymore.  Trump respects power without purpose.  It’s about who carries the biggest stick, not values like human rights, which are apparently for “snowflakes”.  China is even worse.  

What do you need the Americans to back you up for?   What are you afraid of?

[eyeball]

45 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Agreed....Trudeau should be turfed if he fails to rise up to this challenge before the election.

There's lots of better reasons for turfing Trudeau.  In any case I suspect Trump and Jinping will still be spit-roasting Canada between them and Sheer's lickspittles will have his back when it comes time to whinge about the mess he inherited.

[lyzingg]

oh come on guys, you guys are 'naive' too!

why Chinese said JT is naïve? because he wants Trump to help him out of Meng Wanzhou issue.

why Canada and JT have a 'Meng Wanzhou' issue? because Trump ordered JT to do so.

why china is angry at Canada? because usa refused to take Meng to usa! what's next? china wants the lady back, so china cannot push usa for it. Canada has to take all the pressure from china.

if usa really wants to hit Huawei, why not take Meng back to usa? they can do whatever they want in their own place. now Meng is in Canada, is it convenient for usa to do anything? NO! come on! it's usa! they are free to invade Iraq! you guys think they dare not take over Meng? in fact, they dare not. they want Canada to take her, keep her, and ruin all the good relationship between Canada and china. you guys still remember we used to have friendship with china? you guys still remember we made good money because china stopped buying soy beans from usa and turned to Canada? YES! we used to do well until Meng is detained. and what can Canada do now on that issue? give her back to china? seems to lose some face, right? give her to usa? no they don't want to take her over. why why why? they asked, if not ordered Canada to detained her, and then ignored her as if nothing happened? what's usa's real purpose?

 

come on guys! have some logic! usa wants allies to fight against china, including Canada. but, they don't want pay us for that. well, what can they do? fortunately for them, unfortunately for Canada, they have some smart guys in usa, we have none. Meng is a very GOOD reason that could lead Canada on the way to go aside usa and against china. and IT WORKS!

let me put it clear. did china do something bad on Canada before Meng was detained? anyone could tell me? 

Meng is nothing but a tool. usa uses her to drag Canada on her side against china. now china is fighting back. can you imagine how happy Trump is? and JT wants Trump to help him out of the hot water. come on! Chinese people is polite to use the word 'naive'. JT is an idiot! never seen such an idiot! so stupid!

I understand someone wants to argue. well, pls think about it. why usa refused to take Meng over? if they take her, china will fight with usa directly. maybe they will detain a few Canadian as retaliation, but they will not go on with canola oil or pork. but usa says no. Canada has to keep Meng. and now ask Trump for help. idiot!

[Dougie93]

America is on the side of the angels, leaders of the free world, Canadians are Communist sympathizers, f**k Canadians, they get what they deserve for being on the wrong side of history.

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

America is on the side of the angels, leaders of the free world, Canadians are Communist sympathizers, f**k Canadians, they get what they deserve for being on the wrong side of history.

What planet are you on?  Trump has been rude and mean spirited in ways Trudeau doesn’t approach.  Canada is a place of tolerance and hope, like America was and mostly is, if its current politics don’t get worse.  JT is one aspect of Canada as Trump is one aspect of America.  

Edited July 4, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What planet are you on?  Trump has been rude and mean spirited in ways Trudeau doesn’t approach.  Canada is a place of tolerance and hope, like America was and mostly is, if its current politics don’t get worse.  JT is one aspect of Canada as Trump is one aspect of America.  

Wanh, wanh, wanh, you spineless Canadian sycophant, you can suck Trump's c**k, and you will, because Canada is a vassal state to the greatest nation in the history of the world, count yourself lucky that Trump is actually a big softie liberal, if America really gave Canada what Canada has coming to it, then you'd actually have something to cry about.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

What planet are you on?  Trump has been rude and mean spirited in ways Trudeau doesn’t approach.  Canada is a place of tolerance and hope, like America was and mostly is, if its current politics don’t get worse.  JT is one aspect of Canada as Trump is one aspect of America.  

What planet are you on ?

Trudeau might have 'nice hair' and colorful socks, but this country is a business, and as a business man Trudeau is a dismal failure. Wanting Trump to hold his hand in foreign relations just shows the weakness and shallowness of this cuck PM.  Phucking embarrassing !!

[Yzermandius19]

Rude and mean spirited are irrelevant, just win baby. Focusing on the words and tone of a politician over substance is being a fool.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Rude and mean spirited are irrelevant, just win baby. Focusing on the words and tone of a politician over substance is being a fool.

I don't find him to be rude, "mean spirited" is just what "Progressives" cry when they don't get what they want, who knew?

Just another variation of vacuous virtue signalling, it's pathological apparently.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't find him to be rude, "mean spirited" is just what Progressives cry when they don't get what they want, who knew?

Tone is in the eye of the beholder. "Rude and mean spirited" it is indeed just what Progressives cry, because they are unable to attack him over anything of substance, so they attack his choice of words and his mannerisms instead.

Obvious sign of the TDS crowd reaching for straws. If they had better criticisms of Trump, those would be their go to attacks, the fact that word choice is their go to attack on Trump shows how weak their hand really is.

Pathological Vacuous Virtue Signaling indeed.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Tone is in the eye of the beholder. "Rude and mean spirited" it is indeed just what Progressives cry, because they are unable to attack him over anything of substance, so they attack his choice of words and his mannerisms instead.

Obvious sign of the TDS crowd reaching for straws. 

If it's not TDS, it's some other kind of DS, DS is all they got.

The latest is that Trump is going to have a big military parade on Independence Day and all the "Progressives" and their media sycophants are going for a shit about it.

A bunch of leftists are going to show up to protest,  another self defeating  McGovernism fail, lulz.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

If it's not TDS, it's some other kind of DS, DS is all they got.

The latest is that Trump is going to have a big military parade on Independence Day and all the "Progressives" and their media sycophants are going for a shit about it.

A bunch of leftists are going to show up to protest,  another self defeating  McGovernism fail, lulz.

Pathological Vacuous Virtue Signaling Derangement Syndrome from the America Was Never Great crowd. Nationalistic displays trigger the sh*t out of them, especially if the military is involved, damn Hippies.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Pathological Vacuous Virtue Signaling Derangement Syndrome from the America Was Never Great crowd. Nationalistic displays trigger the sh*t out of them, especially if the military is involved, damn Hippies.

God bless the American freedom to shoot themselves in the foot.

Big Daddy Trump Commander-in-Chief of the Marine Corps, get some,  Semper Fidelis.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

And we quick to say, it's just the game that's dealt,
That gave you that rope, so you can hang yourself.

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Wanh, wanh, wanh, you spineless Canadian sycophant, you can suck Trump's c**k, and you will, because Canada is a vassal state to the greatest nation in the history of the world, count yourself lucky that Trump is actually a big softie liberal, if America really gave Canada what Canada has coming to it, then you'd actually have something to cry about.

The US has caused a lot of shit around the world.  You’re the one who needs to stop sucking off Trump.  The Marshall Plan was the best foreign policy to come out of the US and Trump would probably have scrapped it.  Tell me what Canada has coming to it.  What has Canada done to the US apart from supplying cheap resources?  

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

If it's not TDS, it's some other kind of DS, DS is all they got.

The latest is that Trump is going to have a big military parade on Independence Day and all the "Progressives" and their media sycophants are going for a shit about it.

A bunch of leftists are going to show up to protest,  another self defeating  McGovernism fail, lulz.

So is the US the Brezhnev Soviet Union now?   You know what they say about people who feel they have to show off their power?  It’s because they lack real authority.   Whatever.  Invade another country and have another shoot ‘em up.

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So is the US the Brezhnev Soviet Union now?   You know what they say about people who feel they have to show off their power?  It’s because they lack real authority.   Whatever.  Invade another country and have another shoot ‘em up.

America has had military parades before the Soviet Union even existed. Stop pretending Trump is turning the US into the Soviet Union because one is happening on his watch, that's obvious Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US has caused a lot of shit around the world.  You’re the one who needs to stop sucking off Trump.  The Marshall Plan was the best foreign policy to come out of the US and Trump would probably have scrapped it.  Tell me what Canada has coming to it.  What has Canada done to the US apart from supplying cheap resources?  

Trump holds no leverage over me, I seek no favors from the Americans, let Canada flail, by all means, I embrace a war with the Chinese Communists, even if only asymmetrical, and even if Canada is going to lose.

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So is the US the Brezhnev Soviet Union now?   You know what they say about people who feel they have to show off their power?  It’s because they lack real authority.   Whatever.  Invade another country and have another shoot ‘em up.

Who doesn't  love a military parade?  Particularly if there is kit on display, I always watch the Victory Day parade from Red Square, Slava Rossiya!

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[egghead]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So is the US the Brezhnev Soviet Union now?   You know what they say about people who feel they have to show off their power?  It’s because they lack real authority.   Whatever.  Invade another country and have another shoot ‘em up.

You may find it ironc. Trump wants the parade because of France Bastille Day parade (2017 or 2018 ??). He's loving it. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So is the US the Brezhnev Soviet Union now?   You know what they say about people who feel they have to show off their power?  It’s because they lack real authority.   Whatever.  Invade another country and have another shoot ‘em up.

 

But it's OK for Trudeau to use Canada Day for his partisan political purposes, including a speech and military fly-over ?

 

 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But it's OK for Trudeau to use Canada Day for his partisan political purposes, including a speech and military fly-over ?

 

 

 

Apparently you can have a military parade with tanks in Canada, but only in Alberta.

 

 

[Dougie93]

That would be the Krauss-Maffei Wegman Leopard 2A4M CAN of the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians)

Nice piece of kit,  I still think the Abrams is a better MBT, mostly because the Abrams has depleted uranium armor, none the less I rate the Leopard 2 as the second best Main Battle Tank in the world.

Mind you, in order to make the Leopard 2 survivable against contemporary and emerging anti-armor threats, you need to add the Rheinmetall AMAP-ADS

That's an Active Defense System which is an array of sensors and special directionally steerable explosive charges which detect and at the last moment shoot down incoming projectiles such as ATGW's. It's quite high tech, but it does work amazingly well.

Canada of course is too cheap and/or incompetent to do that, the Canadian Army won't be getting AMAP-ADS, but other Leo 2 operators who actually support their troops rather than simply pay lip service to it as Canadians do, have the option to upgrade their Leo 2's to make them as survivable as an Abrams.

Although the Americans are now adding  the Rafael Trophy Active Protection System to the GDLS M1A2C Abrams SEPv4, so that takes Abrams to another level above once again, as the Americans combine the best of both worlds depleted uranium armor and active protection on top, plus they have the TUSK package with modular explosive reactive armor as well.

Now, one caveat is that the Israeli Merkava is in fact the best tank in the world, but the Merkava is so heavy it's more of a liability for conducting expeditionary warfare, so it wouldn't be as useful to NATO countries for example, so I don't rank the Merkava internationally, it's a very Israel specific platform.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[egghead]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

That would be the Krauss-Maffei Wegman Leopard 2A4M CAN of the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians)

Nice piece of kit,  I still think the Abrams is a better MBT, mostly because the Abrams has depleted uranium armor, none the less I rate the Leopard 2 as the second best Main Battle Tank in the world.

Mind you, in order to make the Leopard 2 survival against contemporary and emerging anti-armor threats, you need to add the Rheinmetall AMAP-ADS

That's an Active Defense System which is an array of sensors and special directionally steerable explosive charges which detect and at the last moment shoot down incoming projectiles such as ATGW's. It's quite high tech, but it does work amazingly well.

Canada of course is too cheap and/or incompetent to do that, the Canadian Army won't be getting AMAP-ADS, but other Leo 2 operators who actually support their troops rather than simply pay lip service to it as Canadians do, have the option to upgrade their Leo 2's to make them as survivable as an Abrams.

Although the Americans are now adding  the Rafael Trophy Active Protection System to the GDLS M1A2C Abrams SEPv4, so that takes Abrams to another level above once again, as the Americans combine the best of both worlds depleted uranium armor and active protection on top, plus they have the TUSK package with modular explosive reactive armor as well.

Now, one caveat is that the Israeli Merkava is in fact the best tank in the world, but the Merkava is so heavy it's more of a liability for conducting expeditionary warfare, so it wouldn't be as useful to NATO countries for example, so I don't rank the Merkava internationally, it's a very Israel specific platform.

Canadian forces are peacekeeping forces only. The last war we fought was fighting with whisky