Quebec passes immigration reform bill

[Argus]

So Quebec has passed its new immigration reform legislation which will, among other things, lower the number of immigrants coming into Quebec, and put new requirements on them to pass stringent French language tests, as well as  a values test to get permanent residency.

The interesting part of this is that the majority of Canadians want the same thing. Polls have shown that two thirds of Canadians would welcome a similar bill.  And back when the values test idea was first floated by Kellie Lietch, polls showed 75% wanted a values test. 

There's no chance we'll get one, though. None. The political,  academic and media elites in their tight, incestuous bubble are all fully supportive of mass immigration. Even the idea that Canada has a culture or values that we ought to protect is anathema to them. None will dare express a contrary view to the prevailing narrative that mass immigration is an unparalleled benefit - though none will produce any evidence of that, nor need any. As for what ordinary Canadians think or want? They couldn't care less. They don't hear it. They live in a self-contained bubble where they reassure themselves that everyone believes as they do.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-quebec-government-passes-controversial-immigration-bill-in-early/

[Zeitgeist]

Well let’s see how this rolls out in Quebec and use it as a test case for similar legislation nationwide.  I like the idea of incentivizing immigration northwards and to rural areas.  Social services and public housing in southern cities are stretched to capacity to accommodate new arrivals.  Nothing wrong with making immigration work for the country.

[cannuck]

Froggie gets it right, we will just get the bill.

Not so sure strict French language requirements will work quite so well for rest of Canada, but if you think about it, not a bad idea.  A little forced bilingualism in the ROC could be nice.

[Dougie93]

I have absolutely no interest in even encouraging immigrants to conform to some supposed "Canadian culture" which doesn't actually exist, never mind using Section 33 to force them to.

My advice to immigrants is to simply do what the wealthy in Canada do.

Which is to exploit these priggish provincial rubes to the maximum financial benefit,  then move to Costa Rica to get away from the perpetually shitty weather in this fake country.

Remember, immigrants, Canada is a facade, they don't actually defend themselves, their rights, nor their property, never mind you and yours, so you don't actually owe them anything, all that really matters here is that money talks and bullshit walks, the rest is just self righteous prattle for the rubes.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[cannuck]

Dougie:  I could almost agree with you, but I stay here because THIS is the home that I never had when following my parents around doing their thing to defend this country.  I will stay here until I croak (that gets one day closer every 24 hours, I am sad to say) because our children (two of who wear a uniform in 4 jobs to defend our country, our personal and collective safety) and grandchildren are here, and THAT to me trumps anything to do with politics or weather.  If their safety is ever in question, THEN, and only then will I do anything about becoming a resident or citizen of any other country.

While I really...REALLY do not welcome most of what the open borders policies invite into our country, I really do appreciate immigration of people with the means, skills and international network of contacts and contracts to teach us how to move forward and actually work for a living, create some wealth and make this a sustainable economy (which it is not).   Get enough people doing things that are useful, instead of laying around putting a snootful of ;booze or pot into their body seeking the "good life" and we could end up with enough voters to actually make this place INTO a real country.

I would and DO welcome you criticisms and contributions in making that happen.

[OftenWrong]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Social services and public housing in southern cities are stretched to capacity to accommodate new arrivals.  Nothing wrong with making immigration work for the country.

Yeah they're even more stretched in small rural communities. As in, non existent. Dumping immigrants in small towns cannot work, unless more resources are provided. There's no jobs either. 

Wherever they go, more is needed. So this "experiment" is just another stupid Liberal exercise.

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah they're even more stretched in small rural communities. As in, non existent. Dumping immigrants in small towns cannot work, unless more resources are provided. There's no jobs either. 

Wherever they go, more is needed. So this "experiment" is just another stupid Liberal exercise.

And exactly where are those "resources" supposed to come from?????   You seem to be blind to the fact that we are in debt far, far beyond anything sustainable with an economy that is crumbling in its fragile value added sectors.  On top of that, we are already taxed to death and you think it is just fine to get on some kind of idiot virtue signalling campaign an piss away billions more to do WHAT??????

[Argus]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah they're even more stretched in small rural communities. As in, non existent. Dumping immigrants in small towns cannot work, unless more resources are provided. There's no jobs either. 

Wherever they go, more is needed. So this "experiment" is just another stupid Liberal exercise.

When I was watching the discussion between Jonathan Haidt and Nick Clegg (on youtube) where Haidt spoke about the way those with a love and oppenness towards change and difference and who welcome and embrace immigration wind up moving to big cities, and how those who preferred to live among those like themselves, and valued traditions, home, hearth, family, queen and country, would move away from the big cities he mentioned, almost in passing, that some thought the problem was there weren't enough immigrants out there. Well, the problem is those people aren't exposed to immigrants enough, he said, as a joke. Maybe we should just move immigrants out into the country, he said. Everyone laughed at what a dumb idea it was and how disastrous it was likely to become.

Apparently Hussen doesn't understand English humour.

 

[egghead]

French language testing is fine, but Value testing? Canada value testing or Quebec value testing

[HeadLines]

I have had neighbors who escaped dangerous government sanctioned murder in their homeland. They  worked so hard. My family of three lived in a three bedroom townhouse. Their family of eight aged four to sixty five lived in a two bedroom townhouse. Everyone but the four and seven year old worked. They all spoke Spanish and English. Proud Canadian that I am, born in bi-lingual Canada , I spoke English only. They were saving money to bring a second set of grandparents to Canada as well as an adult brother who had escaped to a different country.

 

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

Dougie:  I could almost agree with you, but I stay here because THIS is the home that I never had when following my parents around doing their thing to defend this country.  I will stay here until I croak (that gets one day closer every 24 hours, I am sad to say) because our children (two of who wear a uniform in 4 jobs to defend our country, our personal and collective safety) and grandchildren are here, and THAT to me trumps anything to do with politics or weather.  If their safety is ever in question, THEN, and only then will I do anything about becoming a resident or citizen of any other country.

While I really...REALLY do not welcome most of what the open borders policies invite into our country, I really do appreciate immigration of people with the means, skills and international network of contacts and contracts to teach us how to move forward and actually work for a living, create some wealth and make this a sustainable economy (which it is not).   Get enough people doing things that are useful, instead of laying around putting a snootful of ;booze or pot into their body seeking the "good life" and we could end up with enough voters to actually make this place INTO a real country.

I would and DO welcome you criticisms and contributions in making that happen.

I have no quarrel with those who imbibe neither, 

Can't drink, can't smoke, can't be an immigrant, sorry, but I have no interest in making my home in a prison camp, I've already done my time in the ranks, when do I get to be free?

I simply refuse to defend and uphold a national helicopter parent,  particularly one as corrupt, incompetent and frankly abusive as Canada is.

Invoking Section 33 to prohibit persons from practicing their religion is an anathema to me, because that is totalitarian, but that's who Canadians are, despite all their empty pronouncements and self congratulatory patting themselves on the back, it's a nation of tyrannical martinets who are pathologically incapable of minding their own damn business.

That's why Canada failed to launch, Canadians simply failed to embrace freedom, the white knuckled grip of the national helicopter parent is its own undoing, and as it is becoming totalitarian now, it's own doom in the end. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

16 minutes ago, HeadLines said:

I have had neighbors who escaped dangerous government sanctioned murder in their homeland. They  worked so hard. My family of three lived in a three bedroom townhouse. Their family of eight aged four to sixty five lived in a two bedroom townhouse. Everyone but the four and seven year old worked. They all spoke Spanish and English. Proud Canadian that I am, born in bi-lingual Canada , I spoke English only. They were saving money to bring a second set of grandparents to Canada as well as an adult brother who had escaped to a different country.

 

What has that got to do with anything under discussion here?

[egghead]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

What has that got to do with anything under discussion here?

I believe it did. We don't need value test, but we need language test (a real one).

[HeadLines]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What has that got to do with anything under discussion here?

 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What has that got to do with anything under discussion here?

I was responding to this: The political,  academic and media elites in their tight, incestuous bubble are all fully supportive of mass immigration. Even the idea that Canada has a culture or values that we ought to protect is anathema to them. None will dare express a contrary view to the prevailing narrative that mass immigration is an unparalleled benefit - though none will produce any evidence of that, nor need any. As for what ordinary Canadians think or want? They couldn't care less. They don't hear it. They live in a self-contained bubble where they reassure themselves that everyone believes as they do.

I am not elite, I don't live in a bubble. Immigrants/refugees will learn the language they need to learn. The values test is a really big problem. Just in this conversation people obviously have different values. Will the values test begin to apply to people born in Canada?

Edited June 17, 2019 by HeadLines
incomplete

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, HeadLines said:

 As for what ordinary Canadians think or want? They couldn't care less. They don't hear it. 

Canadians want an economy and rightly-or-wrongly this is a basic way that economic orthodoxy grows the economy.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, egghead said:

I believe it did. We don't need value test, but we need language test (a real one).

Why not a values test ? Many on here are looking to tighten up immigration, and who we let in , our current system is a mess, but whats a few terrorists, criminals here and there.... 

[Dougie93]

28 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why not a values test ? Many on here are looking to tighten up immigration, and who we let in , our current system is a mess, but whats a few terrorists, criminals here and there.... 

I wouldn't pass the Canadian values test, I shit on Canadian nanny state values from a very great height.

[dialamah]

35 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why not a values test ? Many on here are looking to tighten up immigration, and who we let in , our current system is a mess, but whats a few terrorists, criminals here and there.... 

4 decades of research demonstrate that immigration is linked to lower crime rates.  But the conservative, anti-immigrant lobby continues to push the myth that immigrants mean more crime.  This is politics of fear, and you are buying right in.  Why?

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah they're even more stretched in small rural communities. As in, non existent. Dumping immigrants in small towns cannot work, unless more resources are provided. There's no jobs either. 

Affordable housing is definitely tight in the small town I call home but there's a help wanted sign in virtually every window and I'm often called in on day's off to cover the shortage where I work. Affordable housing would definitely help alleviate the shortage.

The way I figure it is that affordable housing requires progressive public policy but like anything else that's progressive in the universe there's this screaming kicking dead (we wish) weight forever holding it up.

It is what it is I guess.

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why not a values test ? 

I'd rather we have a political test and we flunk the conservatives.

[Army Guy]

25 minutes ago, dialamah said:

4 decades of research demonstrate that immigration is linked to lower crime rates.  But the conservative, anti-immigrant lobby continues to push the myth that immigrants mean more crime.  This is politics of fear, and you are buying right in.  Why?

So you assume that asking a question, of why not ask value based questions during the immigration process , that I am anti immigration, and I've bought into this thing or myth that the left invented so they don't have to explain themselves....What is wrong with asking questions based on values or morals....why should Canadians just bend over and except our fate with immigration when there is so many problems with the systems....

[egghead]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Why not a values test ? Many on here are looking to tighten up immigration, and who we let in , our current system is a mess, but whats a few terrorists, criminals here and there.... 

It is because we don't have a REAL Canadian values. They will learn it when they are here (that is the  language test for). OK, may be ask them to take consumer education 12 or social studies 11, then take the test 

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So you assume that asking a question, of why not ask value based questions during the immigration process , that I am anti immigration, and I've bought into this thing or myth that the left invented so they don't have to explain themselves....What is wrong with asking questions based on values or morals....why should Canadians just bend over and except our fate with immigration when there is so many problems with the systems....

Whose values and morals, though?   I think that people who believe they are transgender should be allowed to pursue treatment for that, once they are adults.  Other people would have it that transgendered people are confused, mentally ill, looking for attention, being exploited by "liberals" and that kids should be prevented from expressing their sense of being the wrong gender. 

I believe that gay people should be able to get married, if they want.  Despite laws being passed enabling them, many people still believe that's a sin against God and that our country is morally corrupt for allowing it. 

I think abortion is entirely a woman's (and her partner's) choice, even late term abortion.  Many people believe that abortion is murder, regardless of the age of the embryo or fetus.  

I believe that individuals should be judged on their merits, and that broadbrushing an entire group due to the sins of a few of that group is wrong.  Other people are perfectly comfortable assuming that Muslims are (about to be) terrorists, are anti-semitic, misogynistic; that Somali Canadians prefer crime to an honest life; that First Nations are lazy drunkards and only want handouts from the rest of us.

So whose "morals and values" should we be using to 'test' immigrants?   You might say that 'the majority' should rule, but sometimes the majority is wrong, especially when it comes to progressive social values - such as allowing women the right to vote and not jailing gays.  Not to mention that in recent years we have apologized to various groups because "the majority" led us to refusing asylum to Jews and to incarcerating Japanese for the "crime" of being Japanese during the second world war.   "The majority" is not always on the right side.

[Army Guy]

6 minutes ago, egghead said:

It is because we don't have a REAL Canadian values. They will learn it when they are here (that is the  language test for). OK, may be ask them to take consumer education 12 or social studies 11, then take the test 

Thats bullshit, we have Values, and morals , and yes a lot of them we share with most civilized western nations....is moral right to give your sister of 12 away in marriage....How about how we value life we have no death penalty, nor do we allow stoning to death as a form of punishment. the list is endless. 

What is the problem with asking questions, and using those questions as part of the whole acceptance or rejection process..

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

What is the problem with asking questions, and using those questions as part of the whole acceptance or rejection process..

The problem is that conservatives want to rig the questions and dominate the rejection process.