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Native inquiry an orgy of progressive guilt-mongering


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13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It doesn't but endless stupid questions do.

But clearly it does. The report specifically says that this is genocide against the FN. And yet every other goddam report ever done about the issue, govt and independent, has reached the same conclusion; The vast majority of First Nations women who are murdered, are murdered by First Nations men. This aligns closely with all other represented ethnicities in Canada. Females are predominantly murdered by males of their own ethnic group.  If you're murdering your own "kind" then it's not genocide. Period!

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13 minutes ago, Armchairprophet said:

The report specifically says that this is genocide against the FN.

It does not say the genocide is specific to the murder of these woman at all. What it says is that the government's cavalier neglect in trying to solve these murders and cases of missing indigenous women was part of a much broader decades long pattern and its that which constitutes genocide.

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1 hour ago, Armchairprophet said:

And yet every other goddam report ever done about the issue, govt and independent, has reached the same conclusion; The vast majority of First Nations women who are murdered, are murdered by First Nations men

There was only one such report (repeated everywhere): RCMP data on offenders in their jurisdictions (ie, doesn't include cities) who were identified.

It doesn't say how many women were murdered whose killers weren't caught.

(Serial killers are better at hiding bodies perhaps?)

It doesn't include women reported  missing who were never found. 

The RCMP data are being overgeneralized, to dismiss and deny police and state incompetence and intentional negligence.

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On 6/6/2019 at 10:35 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Using extreme language inaccurately, words like genocide, when most Canadians know there was never an intentional (or unintentional) mass murder or elimination of Indigenous peoples,

Most Canadians don't know that genocide isn't just murder, but can also be a sustained and devious campaign of removal of rights, removal of children, maintaining conditions of life that are destructive to Indigenous Peoples.

But Canada's governments knew that:

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-threatened-to-abandon-1948-accord-if-un-didnt-remove-cultural-genocide-ban-records-reveal

"Canada was ready to abandon 1948 accord if UN didn’t remove ‘cultural genocide’ ban, records reveal"

In fact, Canada did not sign on to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1948.

First, in 1951 Canada's government amended the 'Indian' Act to remove 1880 ban on Indigenous ceremonies and dance, ban on access to the courts for redress by Indigenous Peoples, and other laws that  repressed Indigenous lives, rights and cultures. 

https://canadianhistory.ca/natives/timeline/1950s/1951-revised-indian-act

The revisions to the Indian Act passed in 1951 encompassed something of a revolution in the treatment of Natives by the Canadian government.

Having cleaned up the laws somewhat, Canada finally signed the UN Convention on Genocide in 1952. Canada was then bound to pass a domestic law against genocide ... but still did not do so until 2000 (Prime Minister Paul Martin), 4 years after the last of Canada's government run 'Indian' Residential Schools closed (Saskatchewan 1996).)

Obviously, by their own actions, our governments knew in 1948, 1952 and until 2000 that they were committing genocide: acts committed or omitted with "intent to destroy" Indigenous Peoples' "as such" - their cultures and land rights.

Canada always intended to eliminate Indigenous Peoples "as such",  to take full control of traditional Indigenous lands ... 

Btw ... the UN did not include "cultural genocide" as a category, but covered it in the "acts" of genocide instead:

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

Edited by jacee
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3 hours ago, jacee said:

Most Canadians don't know that genocide isn't just murder, but can also be a sustained and devious campaign of removal of rights, removal of children, maintaining conditions of life that are destructive to Indigenous Peoples. 

More importantly word games and politics are delightful entertainments that also distract the population from focussing on problems.

Does anyone even remember The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples ?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/truth-and-reconciliation-will-this-time-be-any-different/article27846765/

440 Recommendations - how many were implemented ?  I can find it but I believe... few.

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11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Note to conservatives:  The future is here...get over it.

Also - it's coming in larger waves.  If you don't care about justice today, don't expect others to care when it goes against you in the future.. There is a real danger of institutionalized mob justice and it's going to mean a lot more than not being allowed to say the 'n word' to people you work with.  Just saying.

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4 hours ago, jacee said:

Most Canadians don't know that genocide isn't just murder, but can also be a sustained and devious campaign of removal of rights, removal of children, maintaining conditions of life that are destructive to Indigenous Peoples.

But Canada's governments knew that:

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-threatened-to-abandon-1948-accord-if-un-didnt-remove-cultural-genocide-ban-records-reveal

"Canada was ready to abandon 1948 accord if UN didn’t remove ‘cultural genocide’ ban, records reveal"

In fact, Canada did not sign on to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1948.

First, in 1951 Canada's government amended the 'Indian' Act to remove 1880 ban on Indigenous ceremonies and dance, ban on access to the courts for redress by Indigenous Peoples, and other laws that  repressed Indigenous lives, rights and cultures. 

https://canadianhistory.ca/natives/timeline/1950s/1951-revised-indian-act

The revisions to the Indian Act passed in 1951 encompassed something of a revolution in the treatment of Natives by the Canadian government.

Having cleaned up the laws somewhat, Canada finally signed the UN Convention on Genocide in 1952. Canada was then bound to pass a domestic law against genocide ... but still did not do so until 2000 (Prime Minister Paul Martin), 4 years after the last of Canada's government run 'Indian' Residential Schools closed (Saskatchewan 1996).)

Obviously, by their own actions, our governments knew in 1948, 1952 and until 2000 that they were committing genocide: acts committed or omitted with "intent to destroy" Indigenous Peoples' "as such" - their cultures and land rights.

Canada always intended to eliminate Indigenous Peoples "as such",  to take full control of traditional Indigenous lands ... 

Btw ... the UN did not include "cultural genocide" as a category, but covered it in the "acts" of genocide instead:

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

I appreciate you digging into the weeds on this and being specific.  Cultural genocide is much more arguable than the broader term genocide, which is misleading and inflammatory.  Policies were enacted, particularly the Indian Act, that treated Indigenous people as second class citizens.  These policies have changed and it’s important to remember both that, for First Nations, there has always been the question of whether Indigenous groups wish to consider themselves Canadians and there are financial benefits to having Indian status, not just free land.  That’s why the larger discussion of how to improve Indigenous affairs is problematic.  Who decides what constitutes improvement and who pays for it?  If it’s really about self-reliance and self-government, the government is encouraging that.  If it’s about transfer of more taxpayer income to Indigenous affairs, particularly if the request is being made without any conditions of accountability attached, an informed public is unlikely to support that for sensible reasons.  

On the particular matter of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, there are policies that should be enacted right away, such as the ombudsman, police training, and far better outreach and protections for women on and off reserves.  Those may have additional costs attached to them that are well worth paying.  Don’t drag guaranteed basic income, land claims, or wider discussions about how many more services and benefits government should provide the population.  Those are outside the purview.  Their inclusion seems ideological and will simply get people’s backs up, even though some of those items certainly warrant consideration for a host of reasons.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

....  Don’t drag guaranteed basic income, land claims, or wider discussions about how many more services and benefits government should provide the population.  Those are outside the purview.  Their inclusion seems ideological and will simply get people’s backs up, even though some of those items certainly warrant consideration for a host of reasons.

 

Of course, but this was a chance for maximum impact on a national stage, so they made the most out of it.  Everything including the kitchen sink.

 

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Of course, but this was a chance for maximum impact on a national stage, so they made the most out of it.  Everything including the kitchen sink.

 

Yes and it undermines an important Indigenous cause.  In politics the message should be clear, sensible, and focused.  It’s like leftists hijacked the inquiry, much as environmentalists have hijacked Indigenous activism.  There are actually many Indigenous people who would like to have decent paying jobs in the resource sector, just as there are Indigenous people who believe in lower taxes and greater self-reliance.  

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes and it undermines an important Indigenous cause.  In politics the message should be clear, sensible, and focused.  It’s like leftists hijacked the inquiry, much as environmentalists have hijacked Indigenous activism.  There are actually many Indigenous people who would like to have decent paying jobs in the resource sector, just as there are Indigenous people who believe in lower taxes and greater self-reliance.  

 

Well, I suspect that some of the high profile resignations from the inquiry and schedule delay are directly related to internal conflict(s) over mandate, scope, and scale.

I would agree that it is not helpful or even realistic to treat Indigenous citizens (not sure why that term isn't used more) as a single, monolithic block, same as many/any other demographic group.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm appreciate of such input as it creates an easy marker of individuals who will not be making serious contributions to the discussion.

Yep.

31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s like leftists hijacked the inquiry, much as environmentalists have hijacked Indigenous activism.

 

 

 

 

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I am sorry for my ignorance :rolleyes:;

I believe the native used the term "genocide" correctly (may be little bit of over exaggerate). However, I am confused. Did Indigenous peoples say it happened when Mackenzie was Canada PM or now? 

Edited by egghead
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On 6/9/2019 at 8:37 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Also - it's coming in larger waves.  If you don't care about justice today, don't expect others to care when

Oh God, as if progressive give a damn about justice.:rolleyes:

Edited by Argus
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On 6/9/2019 at 4:22 AM, jacee said:

There was only one such report (repeated everywhere): RCMP data on offenders in their jurisdictions (ie, doesn't include cities) who were identified.

It doesn't say how many women were murdered whose killers weren't caught.

(Serial killers are better at hiding bodies perhaps?)

It doesn't include women reported  missing who were never found. 

The RCMP data are being overgeneralized, to dismiss and deny police and state incompetence and intentional negligence.

Everything you said was a desperate attempt to deny the obvious. In every society by far and away the number one killer of women who are not involved in crime is a family member. There is ZERO indication anything is different about natives. And given the violent crime rate, as well as alcoholism rate among natives is multiple times higher than among the general population it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is killing native women.

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On 6/9/2019 at 5:05 AM, jacee said:

Canada always intended to eliminate Indigenous Peoples "as such",  to take full control of traditional Indigenous lands ... 

And yet never did. Nor ever attempted to. And the native population continues to grow.

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On 6/9/2019 at 8:31 AM, Michael Hardner said:

More importantly word games and politics are delightful entertainments that also distract the population from focussing on problems.

Does anyone even remember The Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples ?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/truth-and-reconciliation-will-this-time-be-any-different/article27846765/

440 Recommendations - how many were implemented ?  I can find it but I believe... few.

How many should have been implemented? Few.

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Everything you said was a desperate attempt to deny the obvious. In every society by far and away the number one killer of women who are not involved in crime is a family member. There is ZERO indication anything is different about natives. And given the violent crime rate, as well as alcoholism rate among natives is multiple times higher than among the general population it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is killing native women.

It doesn't take a genius to think about it a bit: The RCMP reported on 'Indigenous women murdered where the offender was identified'.  

That means ... 

The RCMP reported only on cases solved.

What's their rate of solving? 

They did not even say what percentage of cases were still unsolved.

Raging partners are careless. (Solved?)

Serial killers are careful. (Unsolved?)

Vancouver PD 'didn't notice' that women were going missing. Pickton farm is in RCMP jurisdiction. At least 49 women died there, majority Indigenous, before either VPD or RCMP ever investigated.

It's much easier to identify offenders on small remote reserves where everybody knows the partners and victims, and all are Indigenous. 

No conclusions can yet be drawn ... except perhaps that RCMP can more easily identify offenders who kill their partners than they can anonymous predators and serial killers. 

Edited by jacee
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3 hours ago, Argus said:

Everything you said was a desperate attempt to deny the obvious. In every society by far and away the number one killer of women who are not involved in crime is a family member. There is ZERO indication anything is different about natives. And given the violent crime rate, as well as alcoholism rate among natives is multiple times higher than among the general population it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is killing native women.

Ya, it's those dam old white men. LOL. 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

The RCMP reported only on cases solved.

 

What's their rate of solving? 

The same as for white women.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

They did not even say what percentage of cases were still unsolved.

They solve about 80% for native and white women.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Raging partners are careless. (Solved?)

Serial killers are careful. (Unsolved?)

Not every case is solved. Some are 'solved' but you don't have sufficient allowable evidence to present to a court.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Vancouver PD 'didn't notice' that women were going missing. Pickton farm is in RCMP jurisdiction. At least 49 women died there, majority Indigenous, before either VPD or RCMP ever investigated.

They were prostitutes and street people.

1 hour ago, jacee said:

It's much easier to identify offenders on small remote reserves where everybody knows the partners and victims, and all are Indigenous. 

Unless no one talks to the white cop who, unlike everyone else, wasn't born there.

You're still floundering. It's the male partner or ex partner in almost all cases barring criminal activity. You'd be triumphantly agreeing if this was about white women given your usual determination to vilify men.

 

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8 hours ago, Argus said:

The same as for white women.

They solve about 80% for native and white women.

Not every case is solved. Some are 'solved' but you don't have sufficient allowable evidence to present to a court.

They were prostitutes and street people.

Unless no one talks to the white cop who, unlike everyone else, wasn't born there.

It's worth considering all possibilities, accounting for all deaths and disappearances. I don't think police would want to be seen just writing women off as "prostitutes and street people".

Prostitution is legal in Canada.

Murder isn't.

https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/01/serial-killers-hunting-large-swaths-of-canada-criminologist/

From the west coast to the Golden Horseshoe surrounding Toronto, there is evidence to suggest serial killers are hunting and disproportionately, Indigenous women and girls are their prey.

And those serial killers likely number far more than the average person imagines.

That’s according to Michael Arntfield, a Western University criminologist and serial killer expert who studies murder patterns for the Murder Accountability Project in the U.S.

“There is very good research on west coast and the north west in the U.S and in Canada which helps explain a lot of patterns seen in lower mainland and B.C and in the Highway of Tears region,” Arntfield said, referring to the 724-kilometre stretch of Highway 16 in northern B.C where 18 – 50 women, mostly Indigenous, have gone missing or been found murdered since the  1960s.

While Canadian data is hard to come by, data generated in the U.S. is helpful in guessing patterns north of the border.

“When we input all the (American) data at murderdata.org and we see both coasts light up. We see the D.C. metro region and the Great Lakes region light up and we see major trucking centres light up,” Arntfield said.

“We don’t know for sure in Canada because no one will give us the data but for sure you would see Edmonton up to Fort McMurray (light up)  that’s already well established… certainly Manitoba through to Northern Ontario and down through the Golden Horseshoe and the Greater Toronto area as well.”

It’s something police in Canada are reluctant talk about, but something that many missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls advocates have long theorized.

While serial killers in urban centres can be from an assortment of walks of life, who hunt victims in a variety of settings and circumstances, those who prey in isolated rural areas are often long-haul truckers.

 

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18 minutes ago, jacee said:

While Canadian data is hard to come by, data generated in the U.S. is helpful in guessing patterns north of the border.

 

 

Oh swell....then lacking such data or any commitment to obtaining/releasing such data in Canada...let's just guess patterns based on real U.S. data and call MMIW  "GENOCIDE" and see what happens.

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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On 6/9/2019 at 4:22 AM, jacee said:

There was only one such report (repeated everywhere): RCMP data on offenders in their jurisdictions (ie, doesn't include cities) who were identified.

It doesn't say how many women were murdered whose killers weren't caught.

(Serial killers are better at hiding bodies perhaps?)

It doesn't include women reported  missing who were never found. 

The RCMP data are being overgeneralized, to dismiss and deny police and state incompetence and intentional negligence.

One such report? lol That's cute. Try 98 there sport, starting in 1907 with the Bryce report. Every single one of them reached the same damn conclusion. Except the one sponsored by Groper of course because he loves trashing the so-called "old stock" Canadians and getting all self-aggrandizing about it. And this current report drew from the 98 previous reports and yet managed to reach an entirely different conclusion than the previous 98. As for unsolved cases, here's the reality. A lot of FN are leary about the police. And with the actions of some cops I don't blame them. When you don't trust the police, you're less likely to talk to them unless you're directly affected by the murder/disappearance of family or a good friend. Makes solving cases harder when no one will talk to you.

Then there's this;

"In April 2014, then aboriginal affairs minister Bernard Valcourt told First Nations chiefs that, in 70 per cent of the cases of murdered and missing aboriginal women, indigenous men had been the perpetrators."

"The notion of First Nations women only being killed by their boyfriends and spouses is a myth," said Grand Chief Alvin Fiddler of Nishnawbe Aski Nation, which represents 49 northern Ontario First Nations."

The problem with the Grand Chief's rebuttal is that the RCMP said in 70% of the cases Aboriginal men were the perpetrators. They said nothing about that 70% being boyfriends or spouses. This verifies what's been found in previous studies. This was also borne out in stats by an independent study on the murder of women in general in Canada. The study, sponsored by a woman, found that across all racial groups in Canada women are murdered predominantly by men from the same racial group as they were. This ranged from 70%-80%.

I also have a theory as to why the stark increase in violence against FN women happened. If you look at the years it started getting bad, it correlates somewhat closely to the rapid increase in juvenile suicides on the reserves. Now I now I'm going to get some flak for this but I know PRECISELY of what I speak. There are, sadly, some (actually or than just some) Chiefs out there who emotionally blackmail their people into never leaving the reserve for "the White man's world". If they do they are booted permanently from the band and banned from returning.  Now, around the time both kinds of incidence were on the increase is around the time when the internet and cell- phones starting showing up on many reserves. For those who were being emotionally blackmailed, they could see what they could never have and a world they could never be part of, unless they left. Having little or no hope can cause changes in behaviour. Some people get severely depressed and ultimately end their lives. Others can become angry and turn violent. Alcohol/substance abuse can also magnify those feelings.

Jesus Christ, even the virtue signaling, leftist rag Red Star thinks suggesting that this "genocide" is still going on is a bit much. Look, no one is suggesting that there wasn't some lame attempt at genocide via the residential school system but to suggest there's STILL a continuing "colonial genocide" is absurd to the utmost. 

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On 6/9/2019 at 3:05 AM, eyeball said:

It does not say the genocide is specific to the murder of these woman at all. What it says is that the government's cavalier neglect in trying to solve these murders and cases of missing indigenous women was part of a much broader decades long pattern and its that which constitutes genocide.

That's quite preposterous. It seems correct regardless, and that is quite sad.

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